Putting A Connection In A Hook Up Cable ?

[Techno]

Be assured all the correct answers are within this thread

 

[CWH]

Maybe my naivete is showing, but it seems to me that a lot of this thread is all about advising someone on how to make an adjustment that's just not needed.

 

[Techno]

Maybe my naivete is showing, but it seems to me that a lot of this thread is all about advising someone on how to make an adjustment that's just not needed.

nailed it

 

[trekkin]

Before putting your lead away, double your long lead up, then it only takes half as long to coil, encourages you to unwind the whole length before plugging in and makes it easier to lay back and forth to use up excess..

 

[Minxy]

A question for you ... do you use a reverse polarity converter or a continental plug converter ... if so how you to you ensure it is safe when connected to the end of your English cable ...

I do not use a reverse polarity tester.. .. ( A misnomer, as AC does not have polarity)
not sure why you are asking, I have given my view on this many times...there are dozens of threads about it.. no need for yet another.

My question is quite a sensible one based on your previous comments ... you don't use a reverse polarity connection it appears so therefore equipment in your MH could be running with it's polarity reversed and therefore when you think it is totally turned off it might still be 'live' and if it developed a fault and you touched it ... poof ... do you see what I mean now?

I also asked, quite legitimately, if you use a continental adaptor between your hook-up cable and the bollard ... if so, how to you protect the joint from the weather? Or are you going to tell me that you carry both a full length English and full length continental electric cable so you don't ever have to do this ...

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[Bailey58]

Before putting your lead away, double your long lead up, then it only takes half as long to coil, encourages you to unwind the whole length before plugging in and makes it easier to lay back and forth to use up excess..

Except that a lead doubled up doesn't coil properly, at least not the way it should by putting a twist in it with thumb and forefinger as you do a rope. Nothing so beautiful to behold as a neatly coiled rope or cable.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I also asked, quite legitimately, if you use a continental adaptor between your hook-up cable and the bollard ... if so, how to you protect the joint from the weather?

I've got one.

You don't need to protect the joint from the weather, it's completely pointless. The plug and socket are rated at IP44. That makes them protected against sprays and splashes from all directions.

You're far far more likely to have a problem wrapping a cover around it that then leaks and fills up with water than you are by just leaving it alone to do the job it was designed to do.

If you're that convinced that this joint has to be covered up then you also have to use the same covers on the connection to your van and the connection to the post - there's no point in covering one joint but leaving two others exposed. I've never heard of anyone suggesting suggesting that. It would be daft at best.

Go onto any building site in the country - you will see plenty of similar plugs and sockets (yellow 110V ones but they are exactly the same - the colour is the only difference) being used and mistreated in a far harsher environment than just lying on some damp grass. Guess what? They don't let water in.

 

[wingman]

I think the OP has a PVC so space is at a premium. However, there must be a bit of space for both long and short lengths of cable? They're hardly bulky items. Must be somewhere surely! Behind the driver's seat maybe or there's plenty of overhead lockers in that van.

There WILL be a time when the OP is too far from the post for a short length. That's why almost every responder to this thread carries two lengths!

 

[scotjimland]

@MinxyGirl as NickNic said ..

My question is quite a sensible one based on your previous comments ... you don't use a reverse polarity connection it appears so therefore equipment in your MH could be running with it's polarity reversed and therefore when you think it is totally turned off it might still be 'live' and if it developed a fault and you touched it ... poof ... do you see what I mean now?

In a continental van.. such as the Hymer I have, there is no risk from reverse polarity because on the incoming supply, they fit a double pole main switch, if it trips, or is switched off, both live and neutral are disconnected.. same as unplugging the cable.

also, continental sockets do not have switches, I have no switched sockets, if you plug an appliance in, lets say a kettle, it is live.. if you unplug it, it is dead, in fact you can plug it in either way .. it doesn't care, that is the way all German and French vans are and why they do not care whether reversed polarity or not.. ... no switch.. no risk .. it's live or dead.. never live when you think it is dead..

the 12v charger and fridge are not polarity sensitive.. nor is any other domestic appliance, phone charger, 12v adapter etc.

If you believe reverse polarity is a risk.. take all the precautions you feel necessary .. that is your choice.. far be it from me to tell you what to do ..
if someone has converted your van and fitted UK sockets with switches .. I'd change them to non switched continental sockets.. or CBE 230v UK , no switch.. no risk ..


now.. do YOU see what I mean ?

 

[pappajohn]

You can never have too much cable.

I just checked mine.....2 x 25mtr....1 x 30mtr....1 x 10mtr....a short tester lead....a 3 pin plug to euro socket lead....a euro plug to uk 3 pin socket lead and, from my early motorhoming days when i worried about such things, a reversed polarity correction lead.

Weighs a ton.

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[DBK]

I also asked, quite legitimately, if you use a continental adaptor between your hook-up cable and the bollard ... if so, how to you protect the joint from the weather? Or are you going to tell me that you carry both a full length English and full length continental electric cable so you don't ever have to do this ...

Our continental adaptor is on a short lead so the connection is generally held off the ground. If for some reason it isn't I ensure it is lifted up so it won't be flooded if there is a sudden downpour. As mentioned earlier the connection is waterproof but I wouldn't want to immerse it in a puddle.

 

[tonyidle]

So long as you put a waterproof bag securely round a join it will be okay, or you can actually buy coupling covers anyway.

We cut ours into 2 lengths, one is 2/3rds the other 1/3rd.

Don't put a bag around it - bags tend to let water in in heavy rain and don't let it out. Although joints are frowned upon (and you may be asked not to use one on some Club sites) they're OK if a cover is use. You also need to be sure they aren't where a puddle might form

So in general its not a great idea.

What I have done for now is wind up from one end to half way and cable tie the loop so it stays neat and tidy together. Then I did the same from the other end and cable tied that up the same.
So if I need just half I just undo one half. If the full length is needed then I undo both loops.

But a fella on a site down south last weekend said leaving cables looped up would cause a resistance and knacker them. In 40 year in construction I have never heard of resistance in electric cables. I have heard of wound cables overheating but only if a lot of power is being drawn through them. With many sites having a limit on drawn power I cant see that happening ? But cables are not my specialty

You are correct and the fella is wrong about overheating. However all cables do have resistance (if they didn't they wouldn't get warm when coiled up).

 

[Gellyneck]

You can never have too much cable.

I just checked mine.....2 x 25mtr....1 x 30mtr....1 x 10mtr....a short tester lead....a 3 pin plug to euro socket lead....a euro plug to uk 3 pin socket lead and, from my early motorhoming days when i worried about such things, a reversed polarity correction lead.

Weighs a ton.

Would it not have been easier to say "half The National Grid"?

 

[trekkin]

The cables have resistance as stated, the bigger CSA (cross sectional area) of the cable the lower the resistance and lower volt drop, so always try to use a large diameter cable. Winding cables is not a problem other than tight bends or knots that break off the copper strands inside ( these are not always noticeable from the outside) making the cable dangerous as the current has to pass through fewer strands or worse still arcs across generating heat and fires
Winding cable in a loop or round a former (cable reel etc) causes inductance in the loop, you are creating a transformer, and a magnetic field. This generates the heat and starts fires, with modest currents if you have enough turns. Never use your cable coiled apart from creating a magnet ( try using a compas near your coiled cable) you are taking an unnecessary risk. Always uncoil all the cable and lay out back and forth

Treat your electric cables with respect, although they may not save your life they may shorten it.

 

[DBK]

Sorry but heat is not generated by inductance alone. For example, consider a transformer connected to the mains but with no load on the secondary. The primary will be generating a magnetic field but it doesn't get hot. A small amount of heat will be generated by the very small current flowing through the primary but that is all. Things do get hotter when there is a load but again it is down to the current flowing.

Coiled cables get hot because the heat generated by the resistance (I squared R) cannot escape fast enough.

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[Minxy]

It would appear that several of think I was born yesterday ... perhaps reading my comments more closely would stop this 'barrage' of criticism aimed at me especially since some of you contradict yourselves! You can all do what you wish, I'm not making you do anything you're unhappy about.

I'll continue to live in the 'real' world where everything isn't perfect and continue to ensure that if I ever have to join two electric cables together and put a plastic bag round the join will be so well sealed to prevent water getting in that it could probably be used to send power down to a submarine!

(Unless of course I see certain funsters in the vicinity and it might then be allowed to leak!!!!)

 

[monaco/frankia]

after reading all the above posts I think that there are specific situations and general advise and sometimes it gets a bit personal. 6+3 =9 but so does 7+2, 5+4,8+1 so there are several ways to still get the right answer

 

[drago35uk]

As a qualified Electrical Engineer and member of the Institute of Electrical Engineers with over 35 years experience some of these posts make me giggle. I have never seen a regulation referring to plastic bags
I will also add that I have wrapped 33KV in plastic when common sense dictated.

 

[SuperMike]

You can never have too much cable
Weighs a ton.

50m, 30m & 10m. I made the 50m up for one CL we visit.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I'll continue to live in the 'real' world where everything isn't perfect and continue to ensure that if I ever have to join two electric cables together and put a plastic bag round the join will be so well sealed to prevent water getting in that it could probably be used to send power down to a submarine!

Just out of interest do you also wrap a plastic bag around the connection to your van and the connection to the post?

If not what's the difference?

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[Scattycat]

I'm no expert but surely with the low amperage and current draw used by most motorhomes who use a cable purchased and designed specifically for the job, leaving it loosely coiled outside shouldn't be much of a problem.
We've done it for years and because of threads like this I've often checked our cable and never had a problem of it being hotter than expected considering the ambient temperature.
Also, I've never heard of anybody who's loosely coiled their cables in this fashion having had a problem. . . . . . . . . . But what do I know?
. . . . . . . . . Not a lot, but what I do know is that we spend around 3 months a year in the van and about 20/25% of that on hook-up and when parked at home the van is on hook-up most of the time and the excess cable is loosely coiled up under or beside the van and we've never had a problem

 

[jezport]

The standard 16A connectors are IP44
4 Protected against solid objects up to 1mm. (eg Most wires, screws, etc).
4 Protection against water splashed from any direction - limited ingress permitted.


First number - Protection from solid objects
0 No protection against contact and ingress of objects (Sometimes X).
1 Protected against solid objects up to 50mm. (eg Back of hand).
2 Protected against solid objects up to 12.5mm. (eg Fingers and similar).
3 Protected against solid objects up to 2.5mm. (eg Tools, thick wires, etc).
4 Protected against solid objects up to 1mm. (eg Most wires, screws, etc).
5 Protected against dust (limited ingress permited) completely protected against contact.
6 Totally protected against dust, completely protected against contact.

Second number - Protection from liquid ingress
0 No protection (Sometimes X).
1 Protection against dripping water (vertically falling drops).
2 Protection against dripping water when the item is tilted by up to 15 degrees from normal position.
3 Protection against direct sprays at any angle up to 60 degrees from normal position.
4 Protection against water splashed from any direction - limited ingress permitted.
5 Protected against low pressure jets of water from all directions - limited ingress permitted.
6 Protected against powerful jets of water - limited ingress permitted. (example, ship's deck)
7 Protected against the effects of immersion between 15cm and 1m.
8 Protected against long periods of immersion under pressure.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

The standard 16A connectors are IP44
4 Protected against solid objects up to 1mm. (eg Most wires, screws, etc).
4 Protection against water splashed from any direction - limited ingress permitted.

The same as any other electrical connector or outlet intended for normal use outdoors i.e. an external socket outlet that you may have in your garden. IPx4 is waterproof under normal conditions. It's the standard for waterproof equipment.

Your outside lights, your EHU connection point on your van, the switch for your pond pump. All of them are IPx4

 

[scotjimland]

that's odd..

no definition for plastic bag enclosures in the IP ratings table .. (with or without holes)..

maybe an omission..

 

[DBK]

I'm no expert but surely with the low amperage and current draw used by most motorhomes who use a cable purchased and designed specifically for the job, leaving it loosely coiled outside shouldn't be much of a problem.
We've done it for years and because of threads like this I've often checked our cable and never had a problem of it being hotter than expected considering the ambient temperature.
Also, I've never heard of anybody who's loosely coiled their cables in this fashion having had a problem. . . . . . . . . . But what do I know?
. . . . . . . . . Not a lot, but what I do know is that we spend around 3 months a year in the van and about 20/25% of that on hook-up and when parked at home the van is on hook-up most of the time and the excess cable is loosely coiled up under or beside the van and we've never had a problem

No, you are quite right. A problem only arises if the wire is tightly wound around a reel or drum and there is a heavy load such as a fan heater running. A dozen or so loose coils lying on the ground and a normal load won't cause a problem and shouldn't be under a high load either although you might want to keep an eye on it.

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[DBK]

that's odd..

no definition for plastic bag enclosures in the IP ratings table .. (with or without holes)..

maybe an omission..

Depends on the bag I think, a Waitrose bag will be higher rated than one from Lidls.

 

[scotjimland]

Depends on the bag I think, a Waitrose bag will be higher rated than one from Lidls.

what about the plastic 'bag for life' .. they must be at least IP68

 

[Scattycat]

No, you are quite right. A problem only arises if the wire is tightly wound around a reel or drum and there is a heavy load such as a fan heater running. A dozen or so loose coils lying on the ground and a normal load won't cause a problem and shouldn't be under a high load either although you might want to keep an eye on it.

As I said, because of threads like this I do tend to doubt myself and do, every now and then, check the cable, and so far, so good

 

[Minxy]

You commoners!!!! To think that I'd use a shopping type plastic carrier indeed ... even a 'bag for life' wouldn't give any protection from water as they usually have small holes in, in case some tries to put it on their head! (Try it ... if you dare!)

Of course I'd use a proper bag ... like a high quality thick plastic freezer bag ... actually another reason for 'bagging' it is to make it more difficult for anyone to disconnect the 2 leads.

As I rarely go on sites, let alone use hook-up, there has only been one time when I ever needed to connect both cables together which was on an aire in France a couple of years ago ... and it was still too ruddy short!

 

[tonyidle]

You commoners!!!! To think that I'd use a shopping type plastic carrier indeed ... even a 'bag for life' wouldn't give any protection from water as they usually have small holes in, in case some tries to put it on their head! (Try it ... if you dare!)

Of course I'd use a proper bag ... like a high quality thick plastic freezer bag ... actually another reason for 'bagging' it is to make it more difficult for anyone to disconnect the 2 leads.

As I rarely go on sites, let alone use hook-up, there has only been one time when I ever needed to connect both cables together which was on an aire in France a couple of years ago ... and it was still too ruddy short!

You're being over-sensitive to the comments in this thread. Most plastic-bag covered plug / socket joints I've seen around camp-sites (and building sites!) in wet weather have been half full of water and as such are extremely dangerous. Your method might be better than others but the point really is that provided the joint is clear of anywhere a pool might form it is safer to leave it uncovered than to seal it in a plastic bag. By all means cover it if you wish but leave the underside open so water can escape.

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