Public perception

[Nanniemate]

How many motorhome owners carry disposable BBQs. Ever seen anyone with them? No neither have I. How may car goers with a coolbox of beer and 6 frozen burgers use these things, most every one of them

Add to that the customary heresay about poo on the beach and all you have left is another shit stirring anti-motorhome article full of fabrication.

Motorhomers are not shitting in public on the beach when they have a perfectly good toilet in their motorhome.

funny you should say that couple on the weekend used their unlit BBQ to lift off the ground the disposable BBQ that they were cooking on

 

[sedge]

Love the typo where he accuses them of 'a lack of disrespect' - I welcomed the opportunity to smile, with open arms.

 

[Oldchappers]

The following has been copied from a Scottish Motorhoming page and is from a local artist. It does not make good reading.
Im not saying anyone of my fellow funsters would indulge in this behaviour however I believe that if we are prepared to name and shame whenever we come across this kind of behaviour we may go some way towards eradicating it.

Bill


THE UGLY TRUTH.

I’m sorry for this post but it is absolutely necessary, and it’s my responsibility as someone who promotes the west coast of Scotland, to make you aware of this situation.

I’ve taken so many photos over the weekend that I’ve yet to share. Why have I not? Because I’m struggling. I’m struggling with what I’ve witnessed here in Arisaig and Morar.

The 37 caravans and motorhomes parked on the fragile machair at the roadside of Traigh yesterday. The dozens of cars and campervans parked so badly at the GREY sands of Morar, obstructing traffic and not having a care in the world about anyone other than themselves.

The dirty, dirty campers defecating on the beach, in front of people who have looked forward to staying in this picturesque part of the world for two years. They came to walk the silver sands of Morar and they look nothing like what they had known or imagined. There are tents everywhere and our neighbour bumped into a female on the beach at the weekend and totally unashamedly she said, Oh I’m just off down the beach to have a poo. It is an absolute disgrace.

The lack of disrespect and the ignorance shown by these visitors to not only the beautiful landscape here, but to the people who live here, is abhorrent. Public toilets have been put in place at Traigh, thanks to local crowdfunding, and now the person who cleaned these facilities has resigned because they couldn’t tolerate the abuse any more.

There are 32 burnt areas of grassland at the verge of these beautiful beaches. The legislation from the Scottish government does not prohibit fires and so the ignoramuses think it’s ok to do it. People are taking down local crofters’ fence posts to burn so they can have a fire on the beach.

I have spent most of today speaking to Police Scotland and to the Highland Council. They are trying to do what they can to control the situation, but until people stop turning up unplanned like this, and the Scottish Government steps in and listens to the changes needed to the legislation, this picturesque area will be ruined.

This wouldn’t be necessary if people behaved with decency. If campsites are full, you don’t just turn up and obstruct roads by parking where you want to park. You go somewhere else. If you want to wild camp, you don’t do so by the roadside. You climb a hill far away from anyone. You take away absolutely everything with you. You don’t throw a disposable bbq, which hasn’t been properly distinguished, in a public bin and subsequently set it on fire.

I understand how badly people want to go on holiday, how badly they want to be somewhere beautiful like this. What I don’t understand is this kind of shocking behaviour. It is not your right to roam irresponsibly wherever you want. It is not your right to make local residents’ lives a misery.

So, if I don’t give the exact location of where I am, there is very good reason. There are very few hidden gems left in this part of the world and we don’t need a megaphone to tell everyone exactly where they are.

Explore only with respect for others and for the local area. If you don’t agree, please find another page to follow, as you are not welcome here. To everyone else, I’m sorry to have to share this with you. Scotland has always been one of the most beautiful countries in the world, and with your respect, will remain so.

It’s such a shame as we are so fortunate to be able to enjoy the beauty of these places. Why treat the area/environment and people with such disrespect. The Highlands are amazing and should be explored, but with absolute care and consideration.

 

[WillH]

Sounds like a busy tourist area, so why not build a toilet block for the tourists.

They did, it was crowd funded, and I supported it. Sadly the person that cleaned it has resigned, they can't take the abuse anymore. I know that stretch of shore very well having stayed on sites along there. This always had the potential to happen and now it has, spoiling things for everyone.
We used to spend the day at the sands of Morar, last time I was there a height barrier had been erected at the car park to prevent overnighting.

 

[Potty]

Sounds like a busy tourist area, so why not build a toilet block for the tourists.

A new toilet was put up last year. Paid for by crowd funding to which I and many others on here contributed. If you re-read the article, you will see that the person who cleaned has resigned because of the behaviour of these visitors.

We have been visiting there for more than 20 years, staying on a CL with never more than one other van. Last year we just drove past as every parking place was taken and that was in October. The sort of camping taking place is not covered by Scotland‘s Right to Roam and the police should be moving these campers on.

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[Clipgate]

Unfortunately public perception conflates campervans, tents, motorhomes etc into one breed it seems to me.
Here in Folkestone the behaviour of visitors in general this weekend was quite reasonable, however I did witness less than agreeable behaviour also, with remarks made to me about DFL manners which drew attention to the few and ultimately will impinge on the many that are just here to enjoy.
We are witnessing a segregation of people by stealth, which will in my view have a detrimental effect on our community.
New building on the beach flats well over a million pounds sold off plan, will not want visitors etc I feel sure.
Thus bad or inconsiderate behaviour is not limited to the visitors in our community, overnight motorhome camper restrictions will expand, possibly no parking apart from residence will follow, with a fee of course.

 

[pelican]

How many motorhome owners carry disposable BBQs. Ever seen anyone with them? No neither have I. How may car goers with a coolbox of beer and 6 frozen burgers use these things, most every one of them

Add to that the customary heresay about poo on the beach and all you have left is another shit stirring anti-motorhome article full of fabrication.

Motorhomers are not shitting in public on the beach when they have a perfectly good toilet in their motorhome.

How about a van sticker take your rubbish home etc

 

[Jim]

We could set up a Responsible Motorhomer page that explains we are self sufficient, can go a minium of three or four days says without emptying tanks, we take out litter home etc. Then have a corresponding Responsible Sticker on the van with maybe a QR code to scan that takes you to the page.

 

[RubyOptics]

Every day you see new people with an old van and they are off, not coming on here to see how to do things right , just doing it, as they say.

As a newer motorhome owner, I will attest to this wholeheartedly. When I first joined this forum, it was to ask questions about motorhomes in general and to read about other peoples vans. This then morphed into asking you all about specific vans I was thinking of buying. Along the way, I learnt an awful lot about HOW to use a van...not just what buttons do what or how to operate certain functions, but also about the thought and, for want of a better word, the mindset of it all.
Some of this was obvious to me. I have "tented" all my life and also my parents instilled in me a great love and respect of nature. The behaviour reported in the OP is abhorrent to me as it is to all of us. Nearly every single time we camp off grid, we will end up spending a quick 10 minutes to litter-pick around the area. We consider it our payment for staying in some of these amazing places and are glad to be able to take our son to them and teach him this kind of attitude as well.
Other stuff was completely new though...if I'm not staying on a site, where can I dump my grey water, where can I empty my cassette, where can I fill with fresh water. Questions like this were answered by reading through other's posts and learning from what was said in the comments.
I am 100% sure that some of the reporting is biased against motorhome users/owners. We are a big, white, obvious target that stands out much more than a transit van or a Ford Galaxy does.
At the same time, it behoves us to realise that here, in this forum, we are inherently biased to defend our past-time and sadly, that defence is sometimes blind. Motorhome users DO leave rubbish lying around, they DO empty their cassettes into hedges, they DO drop grey at beauty spots. We can't keep turning a blind eye and denying it happens.
The surge in new owners, like myself, could be a turning point for us, BUT it requires education for new owners. We've all seen here the dramatic surge in Newbie posts since Covid began - hell, I'm one of them I guess. We need to be engaging them, sharing what we've learnt and guiding them in the "right" way of doing things, not highjacking threads to argue about whether or not grey waste is good or bad for plants or how much SOGs are loved or hated.
Please don't think I'm trying to criticise this forum. I'm not. It is, in general, friendly, welcoming and yes, fun!

 

[Just smiffy]

I agree with CazPaul there were probably hundreds of cars there that the occupants don’t have toilets or bins in them but it’s the obvious big white van that gets the blame because it sticks out like a sore thumb…

my only concern now is the increase in diy van conversions that don’t include toilets facilities so we will get lumped in with them…

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[Jim]

Motorhome users DO leave rubbish lying around, they DO empty their cassettes into hedges, they DO drop grey at beauty spots. We can't keep turning a blind eye and denying it happens.

Do "they" 'we" and you have evidence of this of course.

 

[Vipar]

We used to spend the day at the sands of Morar, last time I was there a height barrier had been erected at the car park to prevent overnighting.

If we can’t overnight there because of the height barriers then it will prove that it is not MH’s that leave the mess. Will they then write the truth. And declare us the good guys?

 

[RubyOptics]

Do "they" and you have evidence of this of course.

Jim are you seriously contending that ALL motorhome owners are so virtuous that NONE of them behave irresponsibly or antisocially?

To answer your question directly, yes, I have witnessed a motorhome owner throwing trash out of their door into a convenient hedge.

I am in no way, shape or form suggesting that the majority do. I AM saying that we can't be blind enough to suggest that the minority don't.

 

[Jim]

@Jim are you seriously contending that ALL motorhome owners are so virtuous that NONE of them behave irresponsibly or antisocially?

How could I, I only meet a tiny part of one percentile of them. I wouldn't profess to know as much about their habits as you do.

 

[CazPaul]

Jim are you seriously contending that ALL motorhome owners are so virtuous that NONE of them behave irresponsibly or antisocially?

To answer your question directly, yes, I have witnessed a motorhome owner throwing trash out of their door into a convenient hedge.

I am in no way, shape or form suggesting that the majority do. I AM saying that we can't be blind enough to suggest that the minority don't.

What I know for certain is that up here on the moors it is cars that dump rubbish, I witness it all the time living here, are other remote areas any different?

Any walk of life you get irresponsible people you have to look at the main.

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[Jim]

BUT it requires education for new owners. We've all seen here the dramatic surge in Newbie posts since Covid began - hell, I'm one of them I guess. We need to be engaging them, sharing what we've learnt and guiding them in the "right" way of doing things

Maybe you're right, maybe we really do need to educate our members. Because maybe newbies don't know that it's not OK to dump on the beach Maybe they think strewing litter everywhere is OK, and they need guiding as to the right way of doing things. I'll start an education program...

Don't throw litter out of your van into the hedge
Don't mug old ladies
Don't shit on the beach
Don't rob post offices
Don't drop grey into carparks
Don't speed on motorways
Don't empty your cassettes on grass verges
Elbows off the table

 

[RubyOptics]

How could I, I only meet a tiny part of one percentile of them. I wouldn't profess to know as much about their habits as you do.

Jim I feel you have either taken my post in a completely unintended way, or I have offended you in some other way.
You absolutely do profess to know just as much about other motorhomers habits as apparently I do. You have a document aimed at new users informing them that they need to account for 10kg weight for a cadac, so by your logic apparently every single motorhome owner also owns a Cadac? This is how your are constructing your argument against me. I don't need to personally taste every single ocean and sea in every corner of the globe to know that all of them taste salty.
And nowhere in my post, at all, did I state that I know every single motorhome owners habits. I stated that we can't allow ourselves to believe that just because we own and use our motorhomes responsibly, that every single motorhome user does the same.

 

[RubyOptics]

Maybe you're right, maybe we really do need to educate our members. Because maybe newbies don't know that it's not OK to dump on the beach Maybe they think strewing litter everywhere is OK, and they need guiding as to the right way of doing things. I'll start an education program...

Don't throw litter out of your van into the hedge
Don't mug old ladies
Don't shit on the beach
Don't rob post offices
Don't drop grey into carparks
Don't shoplift.
Don't empty your cassettes on grass verges
Elbows off the table

Ok, sure, I can go down this road with you if you like. How many posts do you see here that internally you think "Jesus H Christ that's obvious". Think about, I dunno, someone asking why their 240 sockets aren't working when wild camping by the side of the lake. Or if someone asks why they have no water from the taps and they haven't turned the pump on. Obvious yes?

So - What if your brand new owner believes that toilet blue turns human waste into a safe-to-dispose-of-anywhere harmless liquid? Or that, as so many people are saying that grey waste is harmless, that of course it's ok to dump it where they are staying? Are either of these really so much stranger than new owners being suprised that a (in essence_ car battery can't power their playstation 5 for 8 hours non-stop???

 

[Jim]

You have a document aimed at new users informing them that they need to account for 10kg weight for a cadac,

No we do not, we have a document that says most of the motorhomers we questioned will carry a BBQ in the region of 10kg, This is trying to come to an average payload requirement.

 

[68c]

Don't throw litter out of your van into the hedge
Don't mug old ladies
Don't shit on the beach
Don't rob post offices
Don't drop grey into carparks
Don't speed on motorways
Don't empty your cassettes on grass verges
Elbows off the table

Is sarcasm a contravention of rule one?

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[Jim]

Ok, sure, I can go down this road with you if you like. How many posts do you see here that internally you think "Jesus H Christ that's obvious". Think about, I dunno, someone asking why their 240 sockets aren't working when wild camping by the side of the lake. Or if someone asks why they have no water from the taps and they haven't turned the pump on. Obvious yes?

So - What if your brand new owner believes that toilet blue turns human waste into a safe-to-dispose-of-anywhere harmless liquid? Or that, as so many people are saying that grey waste is harmless, that of course it's ok to dump it where they are staying? Are either of these really so much stranger than new owners being suprised that a (in essence_ car battery can't power their playstation 5 for 8 hours non-stop???

Throwing litter and shit into the countryside, probably does stem from a lack of education, but at their mothers knee. Not in a motorhome forum.

 

[Jim]

Is sarcasm a contravention of rule one?

No, but trying to be a smart arse might be

 

[Imala615]

there must be a lot of motorhomers, full timers in vans who live near me as the grass verge outside our property receives mcdonalds, kfc 'donations' most weekends .......

Yes same as me



and not just weekends. Problem is this country is slowly turning in a third world sh1t hole and will we motorhomers be to blame for that.!!

 

[RubyOptics]

Throwing litter and shit into the countryside, probably does stem from a lack of education, but at their mothers knee. Not in a motorhome forum.

So how about the new trend of "composting" toilets? Users are believing that as soon as you crap into a bucket of coconut fibres, that it is magically transformed into sterile compost. We've had numerous threads on it here in the last few months. Should your members not try to educate the people who seemingly believe that they can now throw a bag of excrement into any bin they like because they have an apparently magic toilet? Should we refer them back to their mothers in this case?

 

[RubyOptics]

No we do not, we have a document that says most of the motorhomers we questioned will carry a BBQ in the region of 10kg, This is trying to come to an average payload requirement.

Yes, so you have created a guide for new motorhome owners based on what the majority do. How on earth is what I am saying or suggesting ANY different to this? I am saying the majority DO behave in a considerate and responsible manner, but that the minority do not. So, in this case, is suggesting to new owners to behave in the way that the majority do wrong?

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[Minxy]

I agree with Ruby, I have witnessed stuff myself just as has been mentioned, so it does happen, same as some MH owners with dogs don't pick up their dog's do-do or let them roam on their own outside without any supervision.

Ruby makes some very valid points so it isn't something to have fun poked at it, we do need to educate these new campervan/MH users as to what is good practice, heck some don't even know how to extract the toilet cassette ... never mind those who haven't got one who don't give a sh*t ... although they might do so literally!

Rather than disparage funsters' views and experiences on here, lets put our 'virtual' heads together and come up with something that will help the situation, suggestions for a good 'catchy' name would be the first thing I think to get people's attention and something that can be easily remembered to make others aware of, eg:

Motorhome Owners and Users Support and Education = MOUSE
Association of Responsible Motorhomers = ARM
Responsible Owner Association for Motorhomers = ROAM

 

[CazPaul]

For every make of car there is an owners forum.
I wonder if they have the same discussions on there “”Don’t shit up on the moors or on the beach” “Don’t leave loads of litter around,, ??

The answer will be no, because they don’t think it’s a problem, if you are of the mind to do these things then whatever hobby you have or whatever you do in life you are going to cause problems.

 

[68c]

No, but trying to be a smart arse might be

You need to read rule one again I think. But seriously I agreed with RubyOptics post suggesting some Moho owners do not behave well, RubyOptics did not deserve that unhelpful reply.

 

[chaser]

Maybe you're right, maybe we really do need to educate our members. Because maybe newbies don't know that it's not OK to dump on the beach Maybe they think strewing litter everywhere is OK, and they need guiding as to the right way of doing things. I'll start an education program...

Don't throw litter out of your van into the hedge
Don't mug old ladies
Don't shit on the beach
Don't rob post offices
Don't drop grey into carparks
Don't speed on motorways
Don't empty your cassettes on grass verges
Elbows off the table

You maybe joking but that about sums up what they need to be told as it appears lots like in the op don't know this.

 

[Jim]

I am saying the majority DO behave in a considerate and responsible manner, but that the minority do not. So, in this case, is suggesting to new owners to behave in the way that the majority do wrong?

Feel free to start an education campaign for not throwing shit on the beach or littering the countryside. I'll guess though that the stupid people you need to reach won't be interested in it. .

Next to most piles of dog shit, are signs saying pick it up, Same with don't litter signs. People speed past 30mph signs at 40, and they've had to pass a test.

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