Progress ?

[tonyidle]

It may be energy efficient at the vehicle end but this needs to be balanced against the efficiency of the power generation itself (about 40% for thermal power stations) and normal transmission losses along the distribution system. Overhead catenary systems have failures and inherent risks. Adding a new hazard of live high voltage cables lying across the carriageway is something motorists can do without.

Will the hauliers be obliged to pay the full cost of amortising the big investment in extra infrastructure? Would that make the proposal uneconomic relative to the current cost of diesel trucking? It looks like a very expensive solution to achieve a relatively small CO2 gain.

Pretty big CO2 reduction I'd have thought? I'm assuming that the intention to replace Diesel by 2040 goes ahead & if so that particular fuel is out of the equation. The trolley trucks would require a dedicated lane so catenary safety should be less of an issue and it is managed pretty well by the railways (if it happens it never seems to affect crowded stations). Whatever solution wins it will be all of us that pay for the infrastructure. What solution would you suggest if Diesel is not in the running?

 

[TheTwoOfUs]

Such negativity. Have you no soul? Just look at all those festooned cables sweeping majestically from their elegantly designed supports. Doesn't it take you back to the days when the offshore windmills were pilloried for the negative impact on the scenery and just look at how we all came to love them - NOT.

 

[Figaro]

Hang on, if we have dedicated motorway lanes with rails for trucks and over head electric cables for them, isn't that looking much like a railway system we already have ?
Surely better to invest in railways and local distributor hubs for battery trucks to make local delivery.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Such negativity. Have you no soul? Just look at all those festooned cables sweeping majestically from their elegantly designed supports. Doesn't it take you back to the days when the offshore windmills were pilloried for the negative impact on the scenery and just look at how we all came to love them - NOT.

Every fan of wind farms ought to see this short Dutch video that explains why it is an impractical and probably uneconomic solution for our renewable energy demand. Don't worry, the commentary is in English.

 

[JJ]

If only you campsite motorhomers would stop heating your awnings (we pay for the EHU so might as well use it) we wouldn't need so much electricity!

JJ

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[Figaro]

Every fan of wind farms ought to see this short Dutch video that explains why it is an impractical and probably uneconomic solution for our renewable energy demand

Humm, puts it in perspective doesn't it.
Where's Gromett ? From reading other posts I think he has a good deal of confidence in our national grid to supply all our energy needs.
I wonder if he has a view on this ?

 

[tacr2man]

I'd like to see similar analysis for Uk

 

[Nigel P]

You're probably correct but it works for the railways so why not? As for overtaking it would simply be impossible - probably no bad thing assuming excellent hill-climbing performance. Breakdowns would be as now - almost invariably on the hard shoulder. It would be cheaper to install and operate than some of the alternatives especially as no change to warehousing and delivery scheduling would be needed.

Overtaking is not impossible, the pantograph rises and falls when it detects overhead cables and tops up an existing on-board battery. The vehicle is independent of the power cables whilst using onboard power, just like a hybrid car. The idea being to make the bulk of a journey being powered by the grid and the final stages under its own power. Been successfully trialled in other countries so we can expect it to be on the UK agenda.

 

[Gromett]

Every fan of wind farms ought to see this short Dutch video that explains why it is an impractical and probably uneconomic solution for our renewable energy demand. Don't worry, the commentary is in English.

Humm, puts it in perspective doesn't it.
Where's Gromett ? From reading other posts I think he has a good deal of confidence in our national grid to supply all our energy needs.
I wonder if he has a view on this ?

He starts off with worst case scenarios and mistates stuff. I don't have time to pull that video to pieces. I will just state three major issues I have with it. (I gave up half way through so there may be others).
1. He uses the 5MW turbine as an example. Current turbines going in are of the 12-15MW scale.
2. He uses on shore capacity factor of 25% which is the lowest one for the smallest commercial turbines badly placed onshore wind turbine at the bottom end of the scale will only achieve 25% but no one builds these anymore.
3. Offshore capacity factors of the most modern turbines in well placed areas exceed 50% and no recent offshore wind farm has fallen below 40% capacity factor.

He is an anti renewable energy person by the sounds of it and is pulling worst case scenarios and extinct technology to make his case.

 

[Gromett]

On the overhead catenary system. I think this is a bad idea if it is the sole power available for trucks. But this is not what they are designed for.

These will be installed in sections of the long distance motorways in between junctions. The lorries using them will be the long distance lorries and this will be used to top up their batteries.
This will be used to supplement or even replace lorry charging stations. If a lorry can top up while driving they won't need to stop at service stations so often.

I think the likely solution will be lorries with a decent capacity battery, charge stations and lengths of these overhead charging cables in sub sections of the long distance motorways.

As for the platooning. This will only be for long distance motorways and reduces fuel usage massively. At junctions they will automatically slow down and spread out to allow for other vehicles to go between them when entering and leaving the motorway.

I suspect platooning won't be used in the UK that much to be honest as we don't have such vast distance to cover and we don't have the large highways.

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[SomeoneElse]

I am not against renewables but any discussion of renewables should also talk about where our power is going to come from when renewables arn't producing. Over the past couple of weeks wind has produced less than one Gigawatt, today the wind has built up and its now around 6 GW. At times it goes to over 10 GW. We having been getting our power from gas and I believe we must keep a good gas capacity if we want reliable power.
https://grid.iamkate.com/ give the latest make up of our power supply.

 

[Gromett]

I just went and looked at what the latest Wind Turbine capacity factors are.
The new Halide-X 15MW has a capacity factor of 63%.

 

[Gromett]

I am not against renewables but any discussion of renewables should also talk about where our power is going to come from when renewables arn't producing. Over the past couple of weeks wind has produced less than one Gigawatt, today the wind has built up and its now around 6 GW. At times it goes to over 10 GW. We having been getting our power from gas and I believe we must keep a good gas capacity if we want reliable power.
https://grid.iamkate.com/ give the latest make up of our power supply.

Easy, Storage.

In the same way that you don't just have a solar panel on your motorhome you have a battery to store the electric generated during the day to use at night.
The UK national grid is installing storage to do the same. We are right at the start of the process of grid scale storage but over the next decade it will become a HUGE business in it's own right.

Expect to see new contracts for generation to stipulate storage capacity included. So each wind turbine will have enough battery capacity to smooth out it's output. making it a constant source of energy. Expect constraint payments to become a thing of the past.

 

[ElliesBoss]

Anybody know how much copper has to be produced for just the UK to build all these electric motors and replace virtually all the cabling round the country so there is capacity to charge all the electric vehicles? No I don't the answer - it's not a trick question.

 

[Gromett]

Anybody know how much copper has to be produced for just the UK to build all these electric motors and replace virtually all the cabling round the country so there is capacity to charge all the electric vehicles? No I don't the answer - it's not a trick question.

Small fry in the grand scheme of things. Although if I was investing at the moment I would invest in copper, aluminum and nickel shares.

Nickel is likely to be the problem child. Copper and aluminium are abundant.

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[HarryML7]

Anybody know how much copper has to be produced for just the UK to build all these electric motors and replace virtually all the cabling round the country so there is capacity to charge all the electric vehicles? No I don't the answer - it's not a trick question.

They will probably take all “coppers” out of monetary circulation and melt them down.

 

[Colino]

What happens when these autonomous trucks are trundling along and they get robbed as they go, by people without jobs

 

[Gromett]

What happens when these autonomous trucks are trundling along and they get robbed as they go by people without jobs

There is a shortage of truck drivers currently. Not all truck driving lends itself to autonomy. Multi-drop and caged deliveries still require a man to handle the loading/unloading and tying down of loads etc.

I think autonomy is likely to to creep in the same way as computers did into the typing pool/ shorthand /secretarial industry.

 

[jockaneezer]

They will probably take all “coppers” out of monetary circulation and melt them down.

Somebody got there before you, modern "copper" coinage is made from a steel core with only a copper coating. A pre 1992 two pence piece is made from 3 pence worth of copper !

 

[the1andonly]

Hang on, if we have dedicated motorway lanes with rails for trucks and over head electric cables for them, isn't that looking much like a railway system we already have ?
Surely better to invest in railways and local distributor hubs for battery trucks to make local delivery.

Yep
Joined up thinking
country wide infrastructure
Re Nationalization
Never happen
Too much "money" self interest

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[TDub49]

I guess those of us old enough to remember trolley buses would automatically assume that this is a proposal for "trolley lorries" but when you look at the helpfully supplied YouTube video it reveals itself as a sort of mobile recharging point - i.e. the lorries can top up their batteries along designated lengths of motorway but aren't reliant on the overhead supply to keep therm moving. It looks like the UK is playing catch-up with other European countries to pilot this so maybe it's not as crazy as it first sounds.

Personally I just wonder why more investment isn't going in to our rail network to facilitate freight transport - e.g. scrap HS2 and stick more freight capacity in across the country, including reopening old branch lines etc. I remember Marples and Beeching and understand that govt policy has long been in the hands of the road builders and the road hauliers but maybe it's time to break free of that relationship.

 

[tonyidle]

Overtaking is not impossible, the pantograph rises and falls when it detects overhead cables and tops up an existing on-board battery. The vehicle is independent of the power cables whilst using onboard power, just like a hybrid car. The idea being to make the bulk of a journey being powered by the grid and the final stages under its own power. Been successfully trialled in other countries so we can expect it to be on the UK agenda.

Here's the system being tested:

 

[Jamesh]

What happens when an over height truck with a train, boat or other non dividable load wants to use the motor way??

Also were is all this electricity coming from?

eggs in one basket comes to mind!!

Post cop 26 it will all be dropped....

Cheers James

 

[Gromett]

What happens when an over height truck with a train, boat or other non dividable load wants to use the motor way??

Lane 2/3. This is only on lane 1. Possible to temporarily bring down sections.

 

[Larby]

Also were is all this electricity coming from?

Cheers James

Oil (diesel) fired power stations using up the surplus diesel

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