Problem with leisure batteries

@Mags52 whilst Banner and Vatra are very good batteries you will spend more than you need to. The links @PhilandMena has supplied are a good read, but the simple answer is look after a battery and it will look after you. I base my knowledge on 27 years in the military were looking after batteries was No1 aim. The so called "leisure batteries" is a black art in the MH world.
Fingers crossed you will be sorted soon, but don't pay over the odds for batteries.
 
PhilandMena said:
Fuses are safety devices. They are there to protect you and the electrical circuit they are fitted too. They work by by melting when a too high a current passess through them. Replacing them with a bigger one increases a fire risk and damage to electrical components in the electrical circut they are protecting. DO NOT PUT BIGGER FUSES IN.
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But what is the fuse that was fitted was rated wrongly in the first place.
I agree 100% with you @PhilandMena about not putting bigger fuses in, but until someone looks at their setup we are all guessing via ink.................
 
The fuses do seem a bit small, are you sure they are they right rating. I wonder if the blown fuse may have lead to no charge from solar and thus knackered batteries.

A 120w panel, though it sounds like it should produce 10A (120/12) at best will produce about 6A so I would expect a 10A fuse. The charger on EHU could produce typically up to 15A (more if its an upmarket one) and so would need a 20/25A fuse on the 12v side. The fuse must always be rated a bit higher than the normal current otherwise it will keep blowing, but must be rated much lower than the current capacity of the wiring in order to protect that.
 
Reallyretired said:
The fuses do seem a bit small, are you sure they are they right rating. I wonder if the blown fuse may have lead to no charge from solar and thus knackered batteries.

A 120w panel, though it sounds like it should produce 10A (120/12) at best will produce about 6A so I would expect a 10A fuse. The charger on EHU could produce typically up to 15A (more if its an upmarket one) and so would need a 20/25A fuse on the 12v side. The fuse must always be rated a bit higher than the normal current otherwise it will keep blowing, but must be rated much lower than the current capacity of the wiring in order to protect that.
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I looked it up and the manufacturer says a fuse of no more than 10A. Ours was only 2.5 so that very likely caused the fuse to blow. I have no idea how long it was off for so I'm guessing it was the cause of the batteries going completely flat. The previous owner seems to have replaced any fuse that went with a tiny one. We're going to turn off the mains now that the light has gone so that we can see what state the batteries are really in.
 
I too am a little mystified why you have a 2.5 amp fuse but I'm also mystified why you have two cables coming from your controler.
I also have a 120 W solar panel (German, good quality) and even in Morocco the best I have had is just over 5 amps. This may explain why you only have a 7 amp fuse and I suspect as you were told no bigger than 10 amp it's the same sargent controller as mine. I do not have a clue what the other cable is for. However on my Sargent set up a signal is constantly sent from the controler to all 3 batteries. (2x Leisure, 1 x Cab, when not on hook up). and the intelligent system then ascertains the sate of the batteries and which set needs to receive the current from the solar panel and switches accordingly. Is it possible this second cable is a sensing cable (?)or supplying a small voltage to another component (?) Why would you have two cables coming from your controller unless that is how Autotrail (or who ever installed your solar panel) connected all batteries to the solar panel (assuming they are all connected ?).
As for Don Quixote recommendation on leisure batteries, I would say read the article, apart from the two (Banner & Varta) leisure batteries, all the others tested were no better than starter batteries and pretty much useless as a leisure battery.
Of course you can get cheaper ones but how will you know they are of good quality and long lasting.
With any of these two you will know as a fact you have the dogs bollocks of leisure batteries.
Enjoy France, it's a great place.

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I don't know either - but then I don't know much.
Anyway here is the result of the darkness test. Mains off 12.7. Half an hour later with only two lights on 12.3.
I guess that says it all - off to see the dealer in the morning.
 
So we went to the dealer near Bayonne and waited for them to have their long lunch. At 2 pm I went into the workshop and explained the problem as well as I could in French. One of the guys came out with a circuit tester and checked the batteries. He said they were looking healthy but one had a loose connector which he fixed. He then looked at the controller and said the fuse had blown again. He changed it for a 5 amp one and gave me a spare. Like others on here he didn't know why there were two fuses. Anyway his advice was to get the controller looked at but they didn't stock replacements so he couldn't help with that. Cost of this help and advice? Nothing at all.
We were touched and impressed by his kindness.
 
Well you just need to ascertain hat fuse exactly it should be.

Your last test last night wasn't showing the batteries as too bad .

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You've gone quiet! Have you managed to sort things out now?

J
 
Pilote87 said:
You've gone quiet! Have you managed to sort things out now?

J
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Did you see the post about going to the dealer? He said the batteries seemed healthy and was as confused by the fuses as everyone here. He also found a loose connection on the blue (neg?) side of one of them and fixed that. He wouldn't take any money for his time. Nice eh? His advice was to wait and see before changing the controller. So far the batteries seem to be slowly recovering.
Am I right in thinking that the onboard charger will only be a trickle charger? If so, and if we were at home, I would have put them on a mains charger. Would that help if we could get hold of one here?
 
the on board charger that is used when on hook up will be the same as the charger you have at home. as in it should full charge the batteries then go on to trickle. the solar depending on how big the panel(s) will provide a top up. this also depends on how much you take out of the batteries 2x95amph = usable 95amp so if you are using 10amp a day but putting only 5amp back you will end up in negative equity
hope this makes sense
andy(y)
 
ciderman said:
the on board charger that is used when on hook up will be the same as the charger you have at home. as in it should full charge the batteries then go on to trickle. the solar depending on how big the panel(s) will provide a top up. this also depends on how much you take out of the batteries 2x95amph = usable 95amp so if you are using 10amp a day but putting only 5amp back you will end up in negative equity
hope this makes sense
andy(y)
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Like it(y):D (the expression not the predicament):cautious:​
 
Mags52 said:
Did you see the post about going to the dealer? He said the batteries seemed healthy and was as confused by the fuses as everyone here. He also found a loose connection on the blue (neg?) side of one of them and fixed that. He wouldn't take any money for his time. Nice eh? His advice was to wait and see before changing the controller. So far the batteries seem to be slowly recovering.
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Yes, I did read that. However, it was almost a case of "Wait and see" and wondered if you were still waiting and seeing or you had something definitive. I just hope you are seeing improvements in the condition of your batteries.

J

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Pilote87 said:
Yes, I did read that. However, it was almost a case of "Wait and see" and wondered if you were still waiting and seeing or you had something definitive. I just hope you are seeing improvements in the condition of your batteries.

J
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Thanks for that. It's really good to be thought about. The batteries are perking up nicely. After a sunny day they are up to 13.2
Put the heating on this morning and they dropped to 11.9 but recovered to mid 12 when we turned it off. As you know I don't really know much about what's good or not but they are definitely improving.
When we get home to the UK I think we'll get the controller changed for a better one.
Mags
 
Mags52 said:
Thanks for that. It's really good to be thought about. The batteries are perking up nicely. After a sunny day they are up to 13.2
Put the heating on this morning and they dropped to 11.9 but recovered to mid 12 when we turned it off. As you know I don't really know much about what's good or not but they are definitely improving.
When we get home to the UK I think we'll get the controller changed for a better one.
Mags
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Mags, at 11.9volts you are killing the batteries they should never go below 12.2 volts as thats about 50% charge left. I think even though you think they are fine, you should replace them on your return home.
I can pull 7/8 amps for hours and they never go below 12.5volts.
 
Thanks John. I'm confused about why the guy at the dealer said that they were fine. His tester showed them both as 13.4. It seems they don't hold their charge properly. Hope they'll hold out till we get home. We'll be going back through France in late November and using Sirea so will need the heater then.
 
Your leisure batteries were showing 13.4 V. because there was a power source supplying them with current, probably your solar panel. If the batteries were fully charged and receiving no other input of power (and output) they would read 12.7 and no more. They do take a little time to settle once a power source has been disconnected so It's possible he (Mr Frog) measured them in this state and if they were receiving power from the solar panel all he was measuring was the power from the solar panel and not the battery condition. Once you start to draw power from your batteries the voltage reading will drop, this is normal and your earlier reading of 11.9 volts could still mean your batteries are good as they need to be measured when they are at rest with no drain being put on them. It is normal for good leisure batteries to recover to around 12.6 V when rested. I suspect your batteries have had it but you need to understand that just changing the batteries alone will not solve your problem and if you do nothing more you will find yourself in the same situation again.
Please follow my advice and get a competent person to have a good look at your set up and explain to you what you need to do to keep your batteries in good condition. As an aside what kind of heater do you have on your Motorhome.
 
PhilandMena said:
Please follow my advice and get a competent person to have a good look at your set up and explain to you what you need to do to keep your batteries in good condition. As an aside what kind of heater do you have on your Motorhome.
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It's a Truma Heater. The blown air seems to use a lot of battery power.
I'll need to take some time to read all that article about batteries!
 
Mags52 said:
It's a Truma Heater. The blown air seems to use a lot of battery power.
I'll need to take some time to read all that article about batteries!
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Yes, I agree about the heater, although it's gas the electric fan needs to distribute the warm air, However, this should not be a problem for 2 x leisure batteries with a solar panel. That French guy did not know his arse from his elbow.
 
If that 5amp fuse really is in the supply from the controller to the battery, then it will blow again every time you get a really good sunny day. At least that means you won't have any more problems once you get back to Scotland. :sneaky::whistle:

It sounds to me as if your batteries may be past their best, but the whole installation sounds a bit Heath Robinson to me. I think it will keep you going until you get back to the UK, but when you do, you could do worse than go home the M6 - M74 route with a short diversion to Dave Newell at Telford on the way up.

I think you need a new, decent controller whether or not there is a problem with the one you've got. It wasn't very special when it came out of the factory. There has to be a suspicion that the wiring may need renewing for the same reason - if they have skimped on the controller there is every chance they have skimped on the cabling.

You would need to book in with Dave. Not only is he busy, but he will need to make sure he has a suitable controller in stock.

The good thing about Dave Newell is that not only will he fix you up with a decent system if yours does need changing, he will also send you on your way without selling you anything more than a bit of time if it does all check out ok (but I would still want to change the controller for something half decent).

(Other competent auto-electricians are available, ;) but if you are going straight home from Dover, you almost pass Dave's door)
 
PhilandMena said:
I suspect your batteries have had it but you need to understand that just changing the batteries alone will not solve your problem and if you do nothing more you will find yourself in the same situation again.
Please follow my advice and get a competent person to have a good look at your set up and explain to you what you need to do to keep your batteries in good condition.
To be fair I did try to get a competent person to look at them and in French too!
I'll try again with a specialist if I can find one in Spain.
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TheCaller said:
If that 5amp fuse really is in the supply from the controller to the battery, then it will blow again every time you get a really good sunny day. At least that means you won't have any more problems once you get back to Scotland. :sneaky::whistle:

It sounds to me as if your batteries may be past their best, but the whole installation sounds a bit Heath Robinson to me. I think it will keep you going until you get back to the UK, but when you do, you could do worse than go home the M6 - M74 route with a short diversion to Dave Newell at Telford on the way up.

I think you need a new, decent controller whether or not there is a problem with the one you've got. It wasn't very special when it came out of the factory. There has to be a suspicion that the wiring may need renewing for the same reason - if they have skimped on the controller there is every chance they have skimped on the cabling.

You would need to book in with Dave. Not only is he busy, but he will need to make sure he has a suitable controller in stock.

The good thing about Dave Newell is that not only will he fix you up with a decent system if yours does need changing, he will also send you on your way without selling you anything more than a bit of time if it does all check out ok (but I would still want to change the controller for something half decent).

(Other competent auto-electricians are available, ;) but if you are going straight home from Dover, you almost pass Dave's door)
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That's a great suggestion about Dave Newell. Thanks for that.
Mags

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One final note of caution! It would appear no one, including all of us experts on here have ascertained what this second fuse (2.5 amp) is protecting which has now been replaced with a 5 amp fuse by a French guy who could not ascertain what it was protecting !
Be aware the 2.5 amp fuse may have been correct and did what it was supposed to do. I would replace the 5 amp with the 2.5 amp until you establish just what is what with that fuse.
Remember, it's an adventure.
Safe travels.
 
The instructions for the controller say max 10a for each of those cables. It doesn't say what they're for though.
 
Kind as the dealer gentleman was, what sort of test did he do ? You cannot test any leisure battery properly that is in circuit. It requires disconnection, that is, take both cables off from the actual battery and then leave it doing absolutely nothing, before test, for at least one hour. Further, that includes any measurements of voltage. :)
 
Mags52 said:
The instructions for the controller say max 10a for each of those cables. It doesn't say what they're for though.
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Then until you see a qualified person put 10 amp in each fuse holder and fingers crossed. It may be that someone replace them at some stage with whatever fuse they had at the time.
Are you crossing into Spain at any stage?
 
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Mags52 said:
The instructions for the controller say max 10a for each of those cables. It doesn't say what they're for though.
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In that case, I would bet one cable is charging your leisure batteries (These are both connected to each other) and the other is charging your Cab battery.
You will know for certain when it is looked at by a competent person.
Safe Travels.

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