Price haggling

[Puddleduck]

I'm not sure of this is in the correct forum section or not but here goes.....

When you see the motorhome that you think has your name on it how much should you expect to haggle on the dealer's forecourt? I'm not much good at bargaining so it is always pretty difficult for me :Sad:

It is a cash sale and there is no trade in. Is it best just to ask for "the best price" or to make an offer - and if an offer at what % of full price?

I'd rather walk away than have an awkward conversation. I know walking away is always up to me if I'm not 100% happy.

We are doing a second viewing of a motorhome tomorrow - it a model that isn't often seen for sale but they've had it on the website for a couple of weeks at least. I've seen just one more of the same make and model advertised in the past 4 months. The other is a year younger but with over 3x the mileage for sale in the UK. Both are the same asking price.

 

[Puddleduck]

speaks volumes to me
warrenty would be a fight probably
if he haggles cause he may have to mot and other bits
that shouldnt reflect on anyone but the seller

hes offering goods for sale
not servicing your van

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

I've just seen a very similar van advertised only 9 months old (but in Kent unfortunately - we are in Scotland) for very little more money. I think we will keep looking.

 

[lorger]

I've just seen a very similar van advertised only 9 months old (but in Kent unfortunately - we are in Scotland) for very little more money. I think we will keep looking.

We bought ours from Guildford as it was the best deal by far and worth the trip down, I did my haggling over the phone and once we agree a price (assuming the van was what they said) they drove it to us for a look. We received a warranty from them and before excepting this we got them to contact our local caravan center to make sure they where willing to do the work, all was agreed and we received it in writing. One year on we haven't needed any work so wasn't a problem.

 

[DBK]

Next weekend we may go and see the other van (same make and model) that is a year younger but has more miles.

As a general rule, with cars younger with more miles is better than older with fewer miles. I don't see why that shouldn't apply to MHs.

 

[Larby]

Just back from the dealer. The van is lovely and pretty much fills both our requirements and most of our wish list - in itself a miracle. For cooking there are only two burners, a grill but no oven. This isn't a major concern as I have a single burner stove that I use for during power cuts - the type that takes small gas cylinders - if I decide i want another burner. Two burners plus a slow cooker and halogen oven will be more than adequate. When we were newly married I cooked on a two burner calor gas camping stove for a year as we couldn't afford anything else.

The van has been looked after although there is the odd minor scuff mark and chip within the habitation area and a broken retaining catch outside but there doesn't appear to be anything major that needs to be done.

The only problem is the price of the van. The dealer started the posturing and intake of breath then offered £1000 off - a less than generous 3%, he said because he might need to do an MOT plus a full service. I didn't say anything but if any sort of expensive work is needed to get a van through it's second MOT when it has covered less than 8,000 miles then I don't want that van! We said we had other vans to look at, we would think about it and left. We are in no hurry after all. If that van sells there will be another along soon. He didn't come after us so obviously not that desperate for a sale.

Next weekend we may go and see the other van (same make and model) that is a year younger but has more miles.

Now that was more positive than your initial post, well done:thumb:

My MH was a private sale, 2 years ago, £4000 less than a dealer for same MH and the dealer's had higher mileage. I inspected, said I will have lunch and return. I went back and straight in at £1000 less and put £500 in cash in front of her as the deposit.
She accepted, so dealer £28k, private £24 less £1k =£23k.
No warranty but I have £5000 to do any work and oh, son has garage:thumb:
And she passed her MOT last Saturday with no advisories.
Luckily I saved a bit on full service and cam-belt change as I did it myself one Saturday morning.
How to pay private? both visit bank and get a transfer on the spot, no hassle, no charge, seller gets paid there and then so no waiting for funds to clear.

Enjoy your MH, we do and love it.

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[Puddleduck]

Now that was more positive than your initial post, well done:thumb:

My MH was a private sale, 2 years ago, £4000 less than a dealer for same MH and the dealer's had higher mileage. I inspected, said I will have lunch and return. I went back and straight in at £1000 less and put £500 in cash in front of her as the deposit.
She accepted, so dealer £28k, private £24 less £1k =£23k.
No warranty but I have £5000 to do any work and oh, son has garage:thumb:
And she passed her MOT last Saturday with no advisories.
Luckily I saved a bit on full service and cam-belt change as I did it myself one Saturday morning.
How to pay private? both visit bank and get a transfer on the spot, no hassle, no charge, seller gets paid there and then so no waiting for funds to clear.

Enjoy your MH, we do and love it.

Thank you. We are in no hurry at all so everything is on our side. I'm happy to buy privately IF I see the make and model I want but so far it hasn't happened. As you say the difference in price between a private sale and a trade sale pays for a lot of work and I do wonder if many "guarantees" are actually worth the paper they are written on (traders on here excepted of course).

The van we saw today had paperwork in the glove compartment which had the previous owner's name and address - would you believe it just 30 miles from here! That does leave a few options as well of course - especially after the salesman's attitude.

I really don't like it when I ask for a "best price" and salesmen start playing silly as I know I'll get upset / angry so I just walk away at that point. I don't like getting conned and I don't want to con anyone else. When a used car salesman says he has to pay 20% of the sale price to the tax man I know he is lying - I know VAT notice 718/1 just as well as he does!

 

[Peter JohnsCross MH]

. When a used car salesman says he has to pay 20% of the sale price to the tax man I know he is lying - I know VAT notice 718/1 just as well as he does!

20% of the gross margin is taken by VAT Man irrespective of any costs incured in rectfications, warranty or costs of selling is the correct interpretation.

Do you haggle in Tescos?

Peter

 

[Larby]

20% of the gross margin is taken by VAT Man irrespective of any costs incured in rectfications, warranty or costs of selling is the correct interpretation.

Do you haggle in Tescos?

Peter

I fully agree with you Peter, son gets a PX car for £800, he may spend a bit on repairs and getting it through the MOT but the VAT as you say is on the margin, not the profit. Not a lot in it for him when customer wants VED, fuel, cam-belt.

Do I haggle in Tescos? I would if I was buying from a commission based salesman (but then I don't use Tescos anyway !!)

 

[Puddleduck]

I fully agree with you Peter, son gets a PX car for £800, he may spend a bit on repairs and getting it through the MOT but the VAT as you say is on the margin, not the profit. Not a lot in it for him when customer wants VED, fuel, cam-belt.

Do I haggle in Tescos? I would if I was buying from a commission based salesman (but then I don't use Tescos anyway !!)

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear and no offense meant. It's when the dealer says he pays VAT on the WHOLE of the sale price that he is telling porkies - and that has happened to me. On a second hand vehicle the dealer does not hand over 1/6 (the VAT fraction) of the total sales price to the HMRC in VAT but 1/6 of the difference between what was paid for the second hand vehicle and what he sells it for regardless of how much he has paid to get the vehicle into a condition ready for sale. What is included in the sales price is very important and the implications are not understood by the general public.

I've done enough VAT returns (and accounts) for used car dealers to know the difference between margin and profit.

I'd like the price displayed on the windscreen to be the price - just like in most other shops. Having said that I know someone who haggles over everything in every shop - and has been asked to leave from both Tesco and Asda because he haggles over the reduced price goods.

I once started a set of accounts for a used car dealer and noticed that according to his stock book that I'd bought three vehicles from him in the previous year - well I'd bought one car from him (and it was a good 'un) but that vehicle wasn't listed at all in the stock book. Neither was the car my colleague had bought from him, according to the stock book she had bought a Micra and not the Mazda MX5 she was driving. Having unearthed the discrepancies I alerted my Boss who spoke to the dealer and politely asked him to take his business elsewhere.

I've never asked for or expected a full tank of fuel with a car! If there is enough to get to a reasonably priced garage I'm happy - but then I'm an innocent when it comes to haggling.

Obviously the VED rules change in October but I quote from 815/1:

"If your customer asks you to tax the vehicle they've bought from you, then you can treat the cost of the tax disc as a disbursement. But if the selling price of the vehicle they buy includes the road tax, then this is part of a single supply of a vehicle. You'll have to charge VAT on the total, including the cost of the road tax."

So best from the dealer's point of view (and no disadvantage to the buyer) to agree a price excluding the VED if the VED has run out or been surrendered. Make it very clear that the price excludes VED and word the invoice to that effect. The dealer can then act as an agent for the customer and buy the VED on their behalf. The VED is then a disbursement and not part of the sales price. However if there is still time on an existing tax disc then the value of this is included in the sales price and so becomes part of the VAT calculations. If the VED is included in the sales price the whole transaction is a single sale and VAT is calculated on the whole margin including the VED. If the VED is purchased through the agent route the VED is zero rated. No difference for the buyer but a difference for the seller.

The rules are complex and do change so ALWAYS check with the VAT helpline in case I am out of date.

Qualifying sales to disabled people are zero rated. That doesn't mean you can go along with a disabled friend and ask for zero rating and a discount - there are rules and they are strict with stiff penalties for fraud.