Portugal Parking Fine

[glastry]

Armacao de Pera,football field ,as far as I remember is for daytime parking.
The attendant may give an ok answer to a question about staying overnight,but I think the ticket issued states that the parking is for daytime?
We used to stay there until the police started to make a reqular habit of moving vans away,with the possibility of a fine,in some cases

 

[Pia]

One of the reasons many of us visit Portugal time and time again is that unlike Mediterranean Spain it does have soul and some of the best bread around. One also has to remember Portugal never a rich country is just emerging from a very deep recession they are only just starting to get started on infrastructure after a nearly ten year holiday

Must agree about the Costas....they, like much of the Algarve have been 'wrecked' by high rise tourist related places...but many of those places in Spain still have their old towns accessible if one cares to look. Yes, I'm sure things will improve in PORTUGAL specially with EU investment enabling Portugal to become a successful member. The future certainly looks bright for them now....but they seem to have replaced their old with new (to us rather boring boxes)....for us the old is where we find the soul of a country.....but that's just for us...others will be different. There are still some beautiful old towns though like Obidus which is being preserved and is stunning. It was an interesting trip and we shall return as there is so much more we want to see. I think their motorway system is good administratively as only on the Via Verde do you have to stop to take a ticket...it is expensive though. As for the bread....nope....like lead not sure why...maybe the yeast isn't allowed long enough to do it's job?.......it is soooo different to the gorgeous pastries which are light as a feather. enjoy your travels.

 

[JJ]

Isn't it amazing how people can have such wildly different opinions on a country.

Portugal has no "soul" Really?

A lot of Portuguese bread is baked on the premises or at least very locally and is sold whilst still hot/warm if you buy it at the right time of day. Each bakery has different types of bread...

Fish has bones in it... well fancy that.

I thought most people who eat out realise there is often a cover charge for bread and cheese and olives... if you don't eat it, you are not charged. I suppose it takes time to tune in to the different customs of different areas.

By the way... the Algarve isn't really "Portugal"... it is the Algarve.

JJ

 

[maxi77]

Must agree about the Costas....they, like much of the Algarve have been 'wrecked' by high rise tourist related places...but many of those places in Spain still have their old towns accessible if one cares to look. Yes, I'm sure things will improve in PORTUGAL specially with EU investment enabling Portugal to become a successful member. The future certainly looks bright for them now....but they seem to have replaced their old with new (to us rather boring boxes)....for us the old is where we find the soul of a country.....but that's just for us...others will be different. There are still some beautiful old towns though like Obidus which is being preserved and is stunning. It was an interesting trip and we shall return as there is so much more we want to see. I think their motorway system is good administratively as only on the Via Verde do you have to stop to take a ticket...it is expensive though. As for the bread....nope....like lead not sure why...maybe the yeast isn't allowed long enough to do it's job?.......it is soooo different to the gorgeous pastries which are light as a feather. enjoy your travels.

The old in Portugal is never that far away, but like all good things takes a little effort. Even in the modern high rise areas you can find the old Street that even taking a hand cart down them would cause problems. You only have to move just a little way from the coast to find more traditional layouts and characters and often much closer to the coast than in Spain certainly based on my limited experience. As for the bread there is little to beat going round the Saturday fruit and veg market the buying fresh still warm bread for lunch on the way back.

 

[Mags52]

We've just had one of these letters after a year and we're quite upset. Most of the time I love this forum but when all the clever remarks and sidetracking gets going it isn't much fun. We don't know what to do - the police told us at the time it was just a warning and now we're getting legal letters. Can someone please give us some helpful advice?
Mags

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[spitfire]

No.
You are mistaking communication for enforcement.
There is no legal mechanism for the Portuguese local Authorities to pursue this debt in an English court.

Today I was told they do now have an agent in the UK who pursues the fines

 

[The Nomad]

Today I was told they do now have an agent in the UK who pursues the fines

Then you were told wrong.

Communication is not enforcement.

 

[sueandjohn]

We've just had one of these letters after a year and we're quite upset. Most of the time I love this forum but when all the clever remarks and sidetracking gets going it isn't much fun. We don't know what to do - the police told us at the time it was just a warning and now we're getting legal letters. Can someone please give us some helpful advice?
Mags

Sorry I can’t help but I feel for you. Smart-a** answers don’t help - come on people

 

[Pia]

The old in Portugal is never that far away, but like all good things takes a little effort. Even in the modern high rise areas you can find the old Street that even taking a hand cart down them would cause problems. You only have to move just a little way from the coast to find more traditional layouts and characters and often much closer to the coast than in Spain certainly based on my limited experience. As for the bread there is little to beat going round the Saturday fruit and veg market the buying fresh still warm bread for lunch on the way back.

The old Portugal tended to be rather run down as if they do not value their old places. We cycled round and through most of the places we visited though we stayed only a month in Portugal so didn't go everywhere. We tend to prefer 'off the beaten track' and spent most of our time inland not on the coast though we did visit the coast twice during our month there once for a week and once for a few days....so most of our experience is inland not on the coast. As for the bread it is quite unique to Portugal and definitely heavy bread which is so very different from their pastries which are light and tasty...we buy our bread from bread shops/market stalls not supermarkets. When we next visit we will probably drive down the coast entering from Northern Spain and leaving at the Algarve coast in the south...we particularly want to visit Porto and re-visit Lisbon. I'm sure that will be a very different experience..we won't be buying the bread though

 

[Pia]

Isn't it amazing how people can have such wildly different opinions on a country.

Portugal has no "soul" Really?

A lot of Portuguese bread is baked on the premises or at least very locally and is sold whilst still hot/warm if you buy it at the right time of day. Each bakery has different types of bread...

Fish has bones in it... well fancy that.

I thought most people who eat out realise there is often a cover charge for bread and cheese and olives... if you don't eat it, you are not charged. I suppose it takes time to tune in to the different customs of different areas.

By the way... the Algarve isn't really "Portugal"... it is the Algarve.

JJ

JJ we are all entitled to an opinion even if it is different to yours Sorry we didn't like Portugese bread Yes, indeed, fish does have bones in it but lots of restaurants fillet thir fish before cooking this is obviously a task the Portugese have not yet mastered...sadly if they did many of their fish dishes would be vastly improved....not every country charge for olives and bread so ....no.....that is not necessarily common and you are correct one can always refuse as indeed we did and usually asked for these supplementaries to be removed....(a sad not entirely up front way to behave in business, in my view)
Indeed the Algarve is the Algarve and if you check on the map you will find the Algarve is indeed Portugal

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[JJ]

Oh dear!

JJ

 

[Tea Bag]

Hi.
Portugal- Bread. For Bread lovers,try if in the area. Bakery Abrantes Lda. R Industria 17. 3420-316 Tabua.If you look this up,you will see on their site the Bakery,Cafe and room to park up. Next, the small Cafe/Shop. In the next village to us...Portela.- Santa Comba Dao 3440-125? 'ish.
The bread from these outlets is super/smashing/delicious....So,get some bought!!
Tea (And Bread) Bag

 

[chaser]

JJ we are all entitled to an opinion even if it is different to yours Sorry we didn't like Portugese bread Yes, indeed, fish does have bones in it but lots of restaurants fillet thir fish before cooking this is obviously a task the Portugese have not yet mastered...sadly if they did many of their fish dishes would be vastly improved....not every country charge for olives and bread so ....no.....that is not necessarily common and you are correct one can always refuse as indeed we did and usually asked for these supplementaries to be removed....(a sad not entirely up front way to behave in business, in my view)
Indeed the Algarve is the Algarve and if you check on the map you will find the Algarve is indeed Portugal

When we started going to Portugal about eight years ago you always got carrots in garlic butter and bread and loved them but this last couple of years all you get is olives and can't stand them , so whereas the carrots were always finished off the olives go uneaten.

 

[suavecarve]

We've just had one of these letters after a year and we're quite upset. Most of the time I love this forum but when all the clever remarks and sidetracking gets going it isn't much fun. We don't know what to do - the police told us at the time it was just a warning and now we're getting legal letters. Can someone please give us some helpful advice?
Mags

Can you take picture of the letter/fine and post it on here so i can get an understanding of the wording. Preferably the English version.
This all boils down to whether they can legally chase you.
@nomad is correct that they "should not" be able to chase you for parking fines. However,presumably, they have got your details via the DVLA. Probably they have got them through a parking company/debt collector in this country who are signed up to the DVLA.
If this is correct then they are chasing you for a civil debt.
If i were being chased for a civil debt from Portugal, I d treat myself to nice cigar, refuse to reply to their letters, await an even more threatening letter, have another nice cigar and perhaps pour a baileys (home made of course) and watch the sunset.
I also wouldnt return to their country in the same van as it seems, from what has been written, they use their ANPR to catch up on unpaid fines.
If the government/portguese dvla are chasing you then pay up.
The wording in this country is the difference between a "Fine" and a "Charge" Parking charges used to be ignored, as they could not contact the driver, only the owner, now they can.(or that is my current understanding) Fines need paying.

 

[suavecarve]

NB - DO NOT TELL THE WIFE I WOULD HAVE 2 CIGARS

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[maxi77]

The old Portugal tended to be rather run down as if they do not value their old places. We cycled round and through most of the places we visited though we stayed only a month in Portugal so didn't go everywhere. We tend to prefer 'off the beaten track' and spent most of our time inland not on the coast though we did visit the coast twice during our month there once for a week and once for a few days....so most of our experience is inland not on the coast. As for the bread it is quite unique to Portugal and definitely heavy bread which is so very different from their pastries which are light and tasty...we buy our bread from bread shops/market stalls not supermarkets. When we next visit we will probably drive down the coast entering from Northern Spain and leaving at the Algarve coast in the south...we particularly want to visit Porto and re-visit Lisbon. I'm sure that will be a very different experience..we won't be buying the bread though

The main reason the old parts of towns and villages look run down is that in general the people living there are poor. There can also be problems proving title to property which leads to buildings just being left to rot. As for the bread most decent supermarkets have local bread delivered several times a day. though I agree the small local bakeries do produce excellent bread.

 

[EllF]

We are parked on the official camp site at Armicao de Pera at the moment €14 per night including elec, showers etc. The old football ground is full of campers some we know have been there for several weeks many English a lot of French don’t seem to have many French campers on the campsite. The rubbish bins outside the football ground are all overflowing and it smells awful still charging €1.50.

 

[maxi77]

We are parked on the official camp site at Armicao de Pera at the moment €14 per night including elec, showers etc. The old football ground is full of campers some we know have been there for several weeks many English a lot of French don’t seem to have many French campers on the campsite. The rubbish bins outside the football ground are all overflowing and it smells awful still charging €1.50.

The bins are actually emptied regularly and sanitised from time to time. Unlike the UK it is normal to deposit large items and garden waste by the bins. The local fregesia truck comes and collects that large stuff regularly. There are still some sixty vans there but most do not stay too long. The space between vans gets less as the place fills. Will be busy this weekend as it is carnival

 

[ivorantony]

We've just had one of these letters after a year and we're quite upset. Most of the time I love this forum but when all the clever remarks and sidetracking gets going it isn't much fun. We don't know what to do - the police told us at the time it was just a warning and now we're getting legal letters. Can someone please give us some helpful advice?
Mags

This may interest you, a couple of years back we drove on the M50 toll motorway around Dublin,
happy to pay the toll but tried and couldn’t do it online so left it and returned to the UK,
obviously they got our details from the DVLA and promptly sent us a fine,

this we ignored so they sold our Debt to a collection agency with various demands for payment increasing with every letter, each one carefully filed in the bin,
after 6 months the letters stopped so as far as i am concerned that’s the end of the matter,
unfortunately people tend to cave in with threats and pay up! it’s your choice,

 

[PeteH]

So he was fined. Problem was, this man was over 70 and his licence only covered him to drive up to 3500kg. so he was fined again for driving without a licence. Good, the Austrians!

Grrrrr!. That is out and out AGEISM. Way past time it was banned/removed/revoked Whatever. IF it was Racism there would be riots in the street!.

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[PeteH]

I'm sure things will improve in PORTUGAL specially with EU investment enabling Portugal to become a successful member.

For "EU Investment" read UK Taxes. We have been (paying for) re-doing Iberian Roads for many years!

 

[JJ]

For "EU Investment" read UK Taxes. We have been (paying for) re-doing Iberian Roads for many years!

Oh no you haven't...

JJ

 

[PeteH]

Oh no you haven't...

JJ

Al together now!. Oh yes we have!.

2000 to 2008, Spanish Roads (to many new / resurfaced to count) UK roads Virtually Nil. UK contribution to EU NET 50Million Per day. It went somewhere.

 

[Tea Bag]

Al together now!. Oh yes we have!.

2000 to 2008, Spanish Roads (to many new / resurfaced to count) UK roads Virtually Nil. UK contribution to EU NET 50Million Per day. It went somewhere.

Hi.
Once upon a time... M5 1962...Had to be made into 3 lanes later at great cost and disruption,when at the time of building it at 2 lanes,was about 2p a mile with all the equipment on site.Foot--Shoot? Now the fiasco of the M42 1976,the link to the M1. Two lanes in places (Mind you,the cost had gone up to about 5p per mile ). Most of the failed new roads,delays/restrictions are down to NIMBY's ,anybody remember the Newbury bypass ? Oh,and lets not forget Great Crested Newts,funny how these always seem to be active in areas of redevelopment....Imported/......No,they wouldn't,would they ?
Tea Bag

 

[maxi77]

Al together now!. Oh yes we have!.

2000 to 2008, Spanish Roads (to many new / resurfaced to count) UK roads Virtually Nil. UK contribution to EU NET 50Million Per day. It went somewhere.

If you add up all the things we are supposed to have paid for we have been paying a lot more than that every day.

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[suavecarve]

Hi.
Once upon a time... M5 1962...Had to be made into 3 lanes later at great cost and disruption,when at the time of building it at 2 lanes,was about 2p a mile with all the equipment on site.Foot--Shoot? Now the fiasco of the M42 1976,the link to the M1. Two lanes in places (Mind you,the cost had gone up to about 5p per mile ). Most of the failed new roads,delays/restrictions are down to NIMBY's ,anybody remember the Newbury bypass ? Oh,and lets not forget Great Crested Newts,funny how these always seem to be active in areas of redevelopment....Imported/......No,they wouldn't,would they ?
Tea Bag

I dont know a lot but i dont think Swampy's motivation was that the Newbury by pass was going through his backyard.

 

[Pia]

Al together now!. Oh yes we have!.

2000 to 2008, Spanish Roads (to many new / resurfaced to count) UK roads Virtually Nil. UK contribution to EU NET 50Million Per day. It went somewhere.

Stupid UK Government

 

[Pia]

Al together now!. Oh yes we have!.

2000 to 2008, Spanish Roads (to many new / resurfaced to count) UK roads Virtually Nil. UK contribution to EU NET 50Million Per day. It went somewhere.

Daily Mail absolute rubbish.....Boris lies....Tory lies every word

 

[PeteH]

If you add up all the things we are supposed to have paid for we have been paying a lot more than that every day.

See, I KNEW they where lying!. It WAS more than 50million.

I dont know a lot but i dont think Swampy's motivation was that the Newbury by pass was going through his backyard.

Do Moles have back yards?. There was a guy who offered to run the length of his "burrow" with his Tracked 180. Some 20+tonne. The offer was refused.

 

[MinaRotter]

Just received after one year a parking fine for staying overnight on a large car park which advised overnight parking for Motorhomes. Not to boar you with the whole story but gist is we payed for an overnight stay then in the morning we along with twenty or thirty vans many French were given papers from the police. We drove to Faro to the police station to be told we had to go to Silves to complain. After speaking to a nice Gent he told us we would have to write in Portuguese to Appel. Having a friend who lives in the USA who is Portuguese he translated a letter for me. Not receiving any notice I thought that was the end of it until yesterday. So now I will send of my appeal and see what happens. The fine is for 150 to 200 euros. Anyone out there had anything like this and what was the result.

I've just had the same fine posted to me via signed for mail. I was parking in a deserted car park (apart from about 5 other motorhomes) in Manta Rota. I haven't yet complained but it seems like it will do little good anyway. I was told at the time by the GNR officer involved that I would just receive a warning. I didn't; it's a fine for 150-200 euros. or 201 euros if I pay willingly !! I had a couple of run ins with GNR and found them draconian and rude. It was enough to put me off from ever going back there, so I will not be paying the fine, will never visit again in a motorhome and they can shove their fine where the sun don't shine.

As a warning to any other motorhomers, do not park anywhere that isn't signed specifically for motorhome stopovers. The GNR are clamping down; there's an article that preceded this thread today on google search that confirms this and the fine isn't cheap.

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