Poll: Where should UK aires be sited?

Where should UK aires be sited?

  • I would use aires which were an annexe to existing (e.g. CC/C&CC) sites

    Votes: 17 10.1%

  • I would use aires in car parks close to town centres

    Votes: 42 24.9%

  • I would use aires at sites and in town centres

    Votes: 104 61.5%

  • I would never use an aire

    Votes: 6 3.6%
  • Total voters
    169
So, referring to the earlier responses to my comments about French supermarket overnight parking and the British insistence on gaps of 3-6 metres between units, both are down to British laws being different to French laws.

Given that aires/stellplatze/areas di sosta are available across the continent, and MHs stop overnight in some supermarket car parks, are they conforming to EU laws or national laws?

Maybe (heaven forbid) it's British laws that need to change.

Small wonder we're off to the continent yet again in a few weeks to spend our time and money where MHs are welcomed.

Interestingly our local authority permits free parking around the town centre, citing its obvious benefit for local commerce, yet has spent a fortune repairing mining subsidence in one of its major free car parks for no obvious monetary return. Surely an automatic barrier and a waste disposal point for a small aire would also benefit commerce and wouldn't break the bank?
 
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The UK legislation which governs caravan sites is the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960. It is well overdue for revision but, given the more urgent calls on governments of all colours, that is unlikely to happen for some time.

The Act defines "caravan site" as "land on which a caravan is stationed for the purposes of human habitation and land which is used in conjunction with land on which a caravan is so stationed" so it includes main sites, CLs/CSs, car parks &c &c.

The spacing gaps come from S5 (Power of local authority to attach conditions to site licences) and the model standards published by the Minister as a result. They apply only to sites which require a licence so, whilst it may be good practice for a CL to adopt such standards, LAs do not have the power to make it a condition. So, CLs established under Para 5 of the First Schedule and LA car parks which allow overnighting based on Para 11 of the First Schedule do not have to comply with the spacing standards. MSA car/lorry parks and truck stops come under different legislative provisions so don't have to comply with the spacing standards either.

I haven't a clue what the laws in France are :BigGrin:
 
GJH said:
For any such scheme to be fair it must be the user who pays.
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Some councils would argue that the provision of free or subsidised parking for vehicles of any type (but usually cars) is worth while because of the economic activity it attracts to the town in question.

I doubt much reliable research exists as to how true that is, because there are so many variables it would be difficult to do a trial with proper controls.
 
Yes, that is a valid argument - and the user still pays in the end, just not directly into council coffers through camping fees.

Correct about lack of reliable research as well because, in general, only vague overall claims are made. That is why I continually invite those who say they want aires in specific places to research specific evidence and build a specific case for those places.
 
magicsurfbus said:
So, referring to the earlier responses to my comments about French supermarket overnight parking and the British insistence on gaps of 3-6 metres between units, both are down to British laws being different to French laws.

Given that aires/stellplatze/areas di sosta are available across the continent, and MHs stop overnight in some supermarket car parks, are they conforming to EU laws or national laws?

Maybe (heaven forbid) it's British laws that need to change.

Small wonder we're off to the continent yet again in a few weeks to spend our time and money where MHs are welcomed.

Interestingly our local authority permits free parking around the town centre, citing its obvious benefit for local commerce, yet has spent a fortune repairing mining subsidence in one of its major free car parks for no obvious monetary return. Surely an automatic barrier and a waste disposal point for a small aire would also benefit commerce and wouldn't break the bank?
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Whether you take your supermarket shopping to Carrefour Auchan or even Asda makes little difference to the big picture. We have to remember we are but a minute part of the population. Just 0.2% own motorhomes.

If you want to go shopping in the town centre then do as the masses do and use public transport or get a cab. Supplying a facility with barrier waste disposal and water just to save the odd motorhome user from getting on a bus is a nonsense, it contributes little to local commerce and will cost the local council tax payers a fortune.:RollEyes:

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I know of a couple of old petrol stations not far from here that have been up for sale of many years and are now basically just old tarmac hardstanding. I've always thought they would make great "night stop" sites for motorhomes or caravans.

One is just south of the Scottish Border on the north bound side of the A68 and the other before Carter Bar on the south bound side. I would think water and septic tank drainage would be available - if there wasn't waste water facilities then the old fuel stores must still be there.

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buttons said:
Supplying a facility with barrier waste disposal and water just to save the odd motorhome user from getting on a bus is a nonsense, it contributes little to local commerce and will cost the local council tax payers a fortune.
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So of the 8221 French Aires currently indexed by CCI, those run by the Mairie are at best misconceived, and at worst a hideous burden to Monsieur et Madame Le Taxpayer? If they have a barrier then there's going to be a parking fee, which will end up in local council coffers to offset the taxpayer outlay.
 
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Puddleduck said:
I know of a couple of old petrol stations not far from here that have been up for sale of many years and are now basically just old tarmac hardstanding. I've always thought they would make great "night stop" sites for motorhomes or caravans.

One is just south of the Scottish Border on the north bound side of the A68 and the other before Carter Bar on the south bound side. I would think water and septic tank drainage would be available - if there wasn't waste water facilities then the old fuel stores must still be there.
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If you know who owns them why not suggest it to them? :Smile:
 
Simple case study: Honfleur aire:

260 emplacements @ 10 euros a night, rarely any spaces by evening in July and August, each month 31 days in length. probably full or near-full most nights in Sept, maybe half full in June. The aire is sited on derelict dockland with a couple of ticket machines and crappy (in every sense) disposal points.

For July and August alone (62 nights) the projected income from parking fees will be:

260 x 10 x 62 = 161,200 Euros or £134,333

Even if June and September together are only half that we're still talking £200,000 going into the Mairie's coffers from June - Sept.

On top of that, a steady stream of up to 500 MH owners stroll into the town each day, especially evening, and many of them will spend money in harbourside restaurants and local shops, many of which close out of season. The Elf petrol station between the Autoroute and the aire must be raking it in, and there's a supermarket just off the roundabout near the Autoroute junction.

Can somebody explain how Honfleur and its local taxpayers are losing out from that equation?
 
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GJH said:
If you know who owns them why not suggest it to them? :Smile:
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I don't know who owns them but next time I go past I'll take a note of the name on the estate agent's board - if it hasn't faded into illegibility.

Money to be made for very little outlay or time commitment I would think - so long as planning consent could be obtained.

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See the Mobile Homes Act 2013 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2013/14/contents/enacted
Which does change the position for caravan site licensing.
GJH said:
The UK legislation which governs caravan sites is the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960. It is well overdue for revision but, given the more urgent calls on governments of all colours, that is unlikely to happen for some time.

The Act defines "caravan site" as "land on which a caravan is stationed for the purposes of human habitation and land which is used in conjunction with land on which a caravan is so stationed" so it includes main sites, CLs/CSs, car parks &c &c.

The spacing gaps come from S5 (Power of local authority to attach conditions to site licences) and the model standards published by the Minister as a result. They apply only to sites which require a licence so, whilst it may be good practice for a CL to adopt such standards, LAs do not have the power to make it a condition. So, CLs established under Para 5 of the First Schedule and LA car parks which allow overnighting based on Para 11 of the First Schedule do not have to comply with the spacing standards. MSA car/lorry parks and truck stops come under different legislative provisions so don't have to comply with the spacing standards either.

I haven't a clue what the laws in France are :BigGrin:
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Phill D said:
one of the main issues with CC sites for us motorhomers ( IMHO ) is that they are away from towns and villages, so while we might use such facilities they would not be ideal.

[HI]the success of french aires is generally their close proximity to town[/HI], village, attraction
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Have to agree Phill, but imagine how villages and other towns would climb on the bandwagon when they discover how successful it has been..... :thumb:
 
Local authorities often publish their current standards on their web sites. Googling <caravan sites model conditions>, the first that happened to come up was Chichester. It's actually quite useful as it has links to the different conditions for different types of site.

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The biggest problem I believe will be the local residents. I spent the last 10 years on a village association committee and trust me when I say if there was a slightest whiff of any form of parking for motorhomes they would be very quick to make absolutely sure it didn't happen in case it affected their property values.

Gary
 
phodetheus said:
The biggest problem I believe will be the local residents. I spent the last 10 years on a village association committee and trust me when I say if there was a slightest whiff of any form of parking for motorhomes they would be very quick to make absolutely sure it didn't happen in case it affected their property values.

Gary
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And rightly so.
 
phodetheus said:
The biggest problem I believe will be the local residents. I spent the last 10 years on a village association committee and trust me when I say if there was a slightest whiff of any form of parking for motorhomes they would be very quick to make absolutely sure it didn't happen in case it affected their property values.

Gary
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The same applies in seaside areas and, as Yorick says, rightly so. Any sites for nightstops have to be chosen carefully so that residents are not adversely affected. I believe that is one reason why the particular St Annes location was chosen by Fylde council.
 

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