Payload ??

[Gixer]

What do people think is a reasonable payload, I have seen many many different opinions, some mentions 500 + kgs as a minimum, but Jim's guide talks about 125 kgs per person, any help ??
My van has been weighed before I get it - at 3140 kgs, so leaving 360 kgs for the 2 of us - is this enough ?

 

[jezport]

My van had around 450kg payload as standard. I uplated it and now have 1450kg

 

[funflair]

I wonder what percentage of motorhomers have been pulled over and weighed ? And how many of those got fined [how much ?]

I would suggest very few and even then you should be OK for a 5% leeway a fine so there is another 175kg

 

[VanWolf]

Simply not enough, think fluids, 2 adults, perhaps a dog, food, clothes, personal effects & paraphernalia and maybe bicycles and you go way over. Then don’t just look at the totals you have to consider each axle separately. When you have done all Tharp remember you are speed limited if your base weight is over 3050kg. If you replace just be aware that on the continent there is a 3.5t limit in many town centres although if it looks like a 3.5t van the gendarmerie are unlikely to pull you.

 

[Dave A A]

Load up, go to weighbridge would be my advice. Read loads on payloads, unfortunately after I'd bought my Moho ! Got different views on unloaded, what does the weight include etc etc. So I got it weighed, my max was 3500, came in at 3640 so uprated to 3700. No modifications needed, done via SV Tech who were really helpful. Yes, limits on speed but we're in no rush. Yes means higher tolls abroad if they think it's above 3500 but we don't intend on using tolls so no issue to us personally. Got the licence to drive and now know we're in our legal weight if we get stopped and for insurance. Not sure if we'd ever get stopped and weighed, and not sure if insurance would ever know. But for us, we stopped having to worry and crack on with our moho adventures.

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[peterc10]

Of course if you uplate to over 3500kg the lower limits apply anyways.

That is not correct for the UK. Motorhome speed limits are sat by the unladen weight regardless of what their MGW or excise duty weight is.

It is correct that the 3500kg MGW sets the speed limits and tolls in Europe.

 

[CamperManLez]

To go back to your question, I have a PVC which comes in at 3160 with
No water
Full 90ltr diesel
Driver 70 kg
Towbar / scooter carrier / 136kg of scooter on the back.
No travel stuff in the Van

I weight my van regularly and its only one person in the van. I travel with all manner of things including one weeks foodstuff, sometimes including my electric bike and I find my weighbridge weight for my trip with above spec is around 3400 - 3430kg
I suggest for your Van, replace the towbar / scooter with your passengers wt and things and I think you will be fine. Just don't go overboard on what you carry, when I see the posts on this site it makes me wonder what on earth people carry.
Take note that digital weighbridges weigh in 20kg increments and there is a efficiency error of around 1%, (so you could weigh more than what is on the weigh certificate, there are other posts on this site that have covered these points)
During lockdown I had spare time, so.... I weighed everything I use on my travels, then loaded that onto a spreadsheet. It makes the load plan easy for the trips, just select what you want to take. If you think your near your limit then go and weigh the van fully loaded.
And good move from you to get your baseline weight, worth making sure you have it right though - i.e. how much fuel as Diesel is 0.83 kg / Ltr. Fill it up and weigh is the best plan.
Good luck.

 

[Jim]

I wonder what percentage of motorhomers have been pulled over and weighed ? And how many of those got fined [how much ?]

Not many, but then 97% of burglaries go unsolved. Should we go and burgle someone

The maximum penalties are in the 000's but actual fines are in the low hundreds

 

[motorhomer]

I would suggest very few and even then you should be OK for a 5% leeway a fine so there is another 175kg

Not really the point. If you are overweight your insurance may not be valid if you have an accident, and the 5% "leeway" is not a legal requirement. There is no leeway in most continental countries and yes, sometimes people do get stopped and weighed.
It is important to get your van weighed so you know the actual figures. Don't rely on manufacturers stated unladen weights. They ARE allowed 5% leeway so if you rely on them you may have 150kg less than you think.

 

[VanWolf]

I wonder what percentage of motorhomers have been pulled over and weighed ? And how many of those got fined [how much ?]

It does happen especially when VOSA set up at the roadside and in recent years they have had targeted stops of mohos and caravans. They know the number of overweight mohos and can often spot them by how they are riding. If you are overweight they dont just let you drive away - first you have to get it underweight - perhaps leave the O/H behind? And then if your licence isn't and should be C1 then forget it - you aren't going anywhere.

For those who travel on the continent have you considered trying to explain it to a Gendarme? I dont think they apply the same leeway and it'll be a big on the spot fine while you unload the extra.

Simple solution is to make sure you watch your axle weights and have the correct license.

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[Gixer]

Loads of useful thoughts - will defo look at uprating as I have C1 and 8 years to 70 so may change by then anyway

 

[Underpar]

Sorry if I’ve missed this but my V5 says ”mass in service” weight of 3018 is this unladen weight? I’ve an upgraded gross weight of 3800

thanks all

 

[two]

What do people think is a reasonable payload, I have seen many many different opinions, some mentions 500 + kgs as a minimum, but Jim's guide talks about 125 kgs per person, any help ??
My van has been weighed before I get it - at 3140 kgs, so leaving 360 kgs for the 2 of us - is this enough ?

In theory, not enough.
In practice, you’ll be just like many others.

I’d suggest 500kgor more is a workable margin.
How much payload you need will depend on how light you want to travel and whatever that figure is today will increase annually.
If you’re aware that you're at (or over) the limit, at least you’ll take it more carefully.

You need a C1 licence to dive anything over 3500kg but it should be easy to uprate the van by 10% (and then pay less road tax).

When looking at payload you should also be looking at the distribution by axle.
You are likely to find yourself limited by the capacity of the rear axle rather than the front.
So, even at 3850kg, you may not be able to carry as much as that.

 

[funflair]

Not really the point. If you are overweight your insurance may not be valid if you have an accident, and the 5% "leeway" is not a legal requirement. There is no leeway in most continental countries and yes, sometimes people do get stopped and weighed.
It is important to get your van weighed so you know the actual figures. Don't rely on manufacturers stated unladen weights. They ARE allowed 5% leeway so if you rely on them you may have 150kg less than you think.

I have had ours weighed and know what it was straight from the dealer and that we have just under 1000kg to play with, on the 5% point I agree that its not a legal requirement but if you are going to be prosecuted or insurance invalidated for being say 1% over the people doing the weighing are going to have to be able to prove the absolute accuracy of their scales, I believe this is where the 5% comes from.

 

[mitzimad]

The only manufacturer I know that quotes unladen weight is Carthago they quote both unladen and MIRO they started doing it 2 or 3 three years ago. Probably to give the impression of more payload.

This is from one of their small CompacLine vans.
View attachment 418973

im sure theres an unladen weight on my coc from burstner

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[Lenny HB]

im sure theres an unladen weight on my coc from burstner

C of C don't give unladen weight just MIRO and Technical MIRO.

 

[Larrynwin]

Not really the point. If you are overweight your insurance may not be valid if you have an accident, and the 5% "leeway" is not a legal requirement. There is no leeway in most continental countries and yes, sometimes people do get stopped and weighed.
It is important to get your van weighed so you know the actual figures. Don't rely on manufacturers stated unladen weights. They ARE allowed 5% leeway so if you rely on them you may have 150kg less than you think.

That statement is probably incorrect as third party cover would still exist and also full cover as the driver is driving a vehicle that is plated within the allowable limits of his licence.

 

[peterc10]

Sorry if I’ve missed this but my V5 says ”mass in service” weight of 3018 is this unladen weight? I’ve an upgraded gross weight of 3800

thanks all

I don't know for sure what "mass in service" means, but whoever filled in the information for my V5C thought it meant the same as the MAM (maximum permissible Mass)!

As far as I know there is no way you can find out the "unladen weight" as defined by the legislation because no converter publishes the figure. Note it is not the same as the MIRO (mass in running order), because that includes things like the driver, some water etc (depending upon what the converter says is included), which are not included in the legal definition of "unladen weight".

 

[Underpar]

Ok thanks ....

 

[Herbyventures]

Depends on what type of motorhoming you want to do.



Most base vans can be upgraded to 3850kg as a paper excercise, if you have C1 licence.

Geoff

Geoff, I have read about people doing this via a company, can you upgrade if you have converted a van yourself? If so, how do you go about it? We both have C1 on our licences. My OH just keeps saying he doesn't know what I'm worrying about this weight thing for, we've got loads of payload, but I keep reading about it and worrying, because we've not actually weighed the thing. (on the plus side though the two of us hobbits together only weigh about what one large person weighs, so we've got an advantage there at least!)

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[Minxy]

Geoff, I have read about people doing this via a company, can you upgrade if you have converted a van yourself? If so, how do you go about it? We both have C1 on our licences. My OH just keeps saying he doesn't know what I'm worrying about this weight thing for, we've got loads of payload, but I keep reading about it and worrying, because we've not actually weighed the thing. (on the plus side though the two of us hobbits together only weigh about what one large person weighs, so we've got an advantage there at least!)

You can indeed do it on a home conversion, people use SVTech or John Ruffles, the latter being about half the cost of the former:

Weight uprating

Has anyone on here uprated their MH weight themselves and not through an agency. If you have was it an easy process or should I leave it to the agency

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[motorhomer]

That statement is probably incorrect as third party cover would still exist and also full cover as the driver is driving a vehicle that is plated within the allowable limits of his licence.

If you really believe an insurance company will automatically pay up if an accident was caused by a seriously overloaded van, just because the plating is correct, I think you are probably mistaken. Not a risk I would take.

 

[suavecarve]

I think it’s going to be very difficult for an insurance company to establish a vehicle was overweight after an accident. If you have a bump, or a fender bender as the Americans say, you should be able to continue, or perhaps limp home. If the accident is more serious your vehicle will be disabled, so it will be recovered and taken to a compound to await the insurance assessors decision. I really can’t see anyone loading it up, and taking it to a weigh bridge, in any event some parts/ liquids may have been lost in the accident.
I have seen estimates that up to 50% of motorhomes can be overweight, has anyone ever had a claim refused for this reason I wonder.

I think thats a fair statement, but, (you knew there was a but) if the collision was a fatality, they would weigh the vehicle, and if found to be overweight would likely to be tested at Court as to whether this was an aggravating factor in the fatality and CPS might consider other charges (if any were forthcoming dependant upon circs).
Never mind the potential fine.
Its far easier on the mind to just keep within weight limits instead of worrying about them all the time.

 

[thebriars]

My van is the same unladen weight as the OPs. There was a clear statement as to what was included in this weight in the brochure. - There is an EU directive on it. Fully laden for the 2 of us with half a tank of water it comes in exactly on the 3500kg. That also includes 2 electric bikes, and a mobility scooter. On top of that we do have a 5% leeway. Worst case scenario if weighed and slightly over then it would take just a few seconds to drain the fresh water.

If any insurance company wants to go to the trouble of collecting every fragment of broken motorhome scattered over perhaps 100m of roadway, and then separate that out from any other vehicle debris, somehow collect every bit of fluid ejected after a crash, then visit each of us in our hospital beds to try to weigh each of us just to prove the motorhome was slightly overweight, good luck to them.

Don't know where some people get their mind blowing weight requirements from, they must carry enough unused and useless junk to kit out a whole car boot sale.

I've been camping, trailer tenting, caravanning and motorhoming all my life. I managed for a month going round Europe in the 70s on a scooter with just two panniers and the tent on a front rack.

You don't need 5 years supply of food or drink, part of the fun of travelling is sampling local food, and shops.
You don't need every piece of clothing you possess, we take enough basics for a week or two, most camp sites these days have washing machines.
You don't need enough spares to rebuild half a dozen motorhomes, just a recovery policy.
You don't need to bring back the equivalent of an artic trailer of wine. Been caught out with that too many years ago. Found a beautiful wine in a German wine market and brought a case back. Found the same wine in Sainsburys the next day at 50p a bottle less.

Over time we have worked out exactly what we need for most circumstances, and in the odd occasions when we don't have it, then there is always a local supermarket or B&Q equivalent nearby.

 

[EuroTrotters]

700 upwards . A ton is good

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[Gixer]

Liking what thebriars said, sensible outlook and agree about not needing too much junk

 

[stevewagner]

To go back to your question, I have a PVC which comes in at 3160 with
No water
Full 90ltr diesel
Driver 70 kg
Towbar / scooter carrier / 136kg of scooter on the back.
No travel stuff in the Van

I weight my van regularly and its only one person in the van. I travel with all manner of things including one weeks foodstuff, sometimes including my electric bike and I find my weighbridge weight for my trip with above spec is around 3400 - 3430kg
I suggest for your Van, replace the towbar / scooter with your passengers wt and things and I think you will be fine. Just don't go overboard on what you carry, when I see the posts on this site it makes me wonder what on earth people carry.
Take note that digital weighbridges weigh in 20kg increments and there is a efficiency error of around 1%, (so you could weigh more than what is on the weigh certificate, there are other posts on this site that have covered these points)
During lockdown I had spare time, so.... I weighed everything I use on my travels, then loaded that onto a spreadsheet. It makes the load plan easy for the trips, just select what you want to take. If you think your near your limit then go and weigh the van fully loaded.
And good move from you to get your baseline weight, worth making sure you have it right though - i.e. how much fuel as Diesel is 0.83 kg / Ltr. Fill it up and weigh is the best plan.
Good luck.

But are you under on your axle weights? 136kg of scooter cantilevered on the back is a lot of weight on the rear axle.

 

[stevewagner]

My van is the same unladen weight as the OPs. There was a clear statement as to what was included in this weight in the brochure. - There is an EU directive on it. Fully laden for the 2 of us with half a tank of water it comes in exactly on the 3500kg. That also includes 2 electric bikes, and a mobility scooter. On top of that we do have a 5% leeway. Worst case scenario if weighed and slightly over then it would take just a few seconds to drain the fresh water.

If any insurance company wants to go to the trouble of collecting every fragment of broken motorhome scattered over perhaps 100m of roadway, and then separate that out from any other vehicle debris, somehow collect every bit of fluid ejected after a crash, then visit each of us in our hospital beds to try to weigh each of us just to prove the motorhome was slightly overweight, good luck to them.

Don't know where some people get their mind blowing weight requirements from, they must carry enough unused and useless junk to kit out a whole car boot sale.

I've been camping, trailer tenting, caravanning and motorhoming all my life. I managed for a month going round Europe in the 70s on a scooter with just two panniers and the tent on a front rack.

You don't need 5 years supply of food or drink, part of the fun of travelling is sampling local food, and shops.
You don't need every piece of clothing you possess, we take enough basics for a week or two, most camp sites these days have washing machines.
You don't need enough spares to rebuild half a dozen motorhomes, just a recovery policy.
You don't need to bring back the equivalent of an artic trailer of wine. Been caught out with that too many years ago. Found a beautiful wine in a German wine market and brought a case back. Found the same wine in Sainsburys the next day at 50p a bottle less.

Over time we have worked out exactly what we need for most circumstances, and in the odd occasions when we don't have it, then there is always a local supermarket or B&Q equivalent nearby.

It's about choice though isn't it? I like to carry a toolbox and some get you out of trouble stuff. I only want my motorhome recovered if there is no chance of fixing it. We don't like to do washing every few days as we are on holiday and want to enjoy it as much as possible, so we take plenty of clothes. I take a guitar, games, DVD's, books, scooter and 2 electric bikes! I've been motorhoming since 1975 and don't want to scrimp on anything. Therefore I make sure I have a motorhome with enough payload to suit our lifestyle - because it's my choice which is the whole point in my view.

 

[thebriars]

As to speeds 50 on single carriageway and 60 on dual no problem, don’t mind lorries overtaking. As to being late for ferry give yourself more time!

One of the joys of my motorhome compared to caravanning, is to be able to effortlessly overtake a bunch of lorries on the motorway, and not hold up cars in the outside lane. No intention of travelling at 70mph all the time, but its really useful to be able to when I need to.

 

[rick brind]

Always this old chestnut. I'm amazed so many people need to carry so much gear. Obviously you need to take into account the weight of the occupants and fuel. But do you need 140 kg water for a cup of tea enroute. Clothes for every occasion with a change twice a day for your entire holiday, massive gas bbqs, 2 x 13kg gas bottles , bottled water, tinned food, more than a bottle of wine or couple of cans of beer. There are shops on the continent as well as in Britain and a refillable gas bottle saves money as well as weight. If you're really pushed don't take the kids or dogs

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[Speve]

There are shops on the continent as well as in Britain and a refillable gas bottle saves money as well as weight. If you're really pushed don't take the kids or dogs

Fortunately we are all different, some travel for several months so need more clothing, some go wild camping and need to carry a full tank of water and have refillable gas cylinders for more range as they are out in the wilds.