Payload

[wotme]

I am trying to find out the payload for a Fiat Ducato Elnagh SEA 640R I realize this is something I should have found out before putting down a deposit on the vehicle, Having since read articles about MHs having ridiculously low payloads I asked the dealer and he says the only way to find out the mass in running order (MIRO) is to empty the vehicle and have it weighed. To do that would mean calculating and deducting the weight of the top box, bike rack, and wind out canopy etc. Apparently the gross weight axle weights and train weight are the only figures found on the plate, NOT THE MIRO WEIGHT.
If this is the case it obviously makes it impossible to work out the payload unless as the dealer says having it weighed empty or is there another way of finding this out?

 

[wotme]

Still within the confines of payload we intend touring mainly France and need your help deciding the pros and cons of either two electric bikes (weight permitting) on the bike rack or a two seater scooter / motor bike on a trailer. I note that some e-bikes weigh as little as 16kg which should not present a problem for me (at present) to lift onto the rack. The e-bikes or motorbike will only be used for sight seeing or nipping to the shops not mountaineering. I take it there's no insurance, road tax or MOTs required for e-bikes unlike a motorbike but is that their only advantage. There is one other aspect to consider and that's means of carrying our Shih-Tzu, I know e-bikes can have a basket fitted for this purpose but a motorbike, I'm not sure.

 

[DBK]

Still within the confines of payload we intend touring mainly France and need your help deciding the pros and cons of either two electric bikes (weight permitting) on the bike rack or a two seater scooter / motor bike on a trailer. I note that some e-bikes weigh as little as 16kg which should not present a problem for me (at present) to lift onto the rack. The e-bikes or motorbike will only be used for sight seeing or nipping to the shops not mountaineering. I take it there's no insurance, road tax or MOTs required for e-bikes unlike a motorbike but is that their only advantage. There is one other aspect to consider and that's means of carrying our Shih-Tzu, I know e-bikes can have a basket fitted for this purpose but a motorbike, I'm not sure.

An advantage of an ebike is you can use the cycle lanes of which France has quite a few. You also wouldn't have to carry all the clobber (big helmet, clothing and perhaps gloves) you would need for a scooter. Downside is if you want to insure the bikes against theft it isn't cheap, typically 10% or even more of the value of the bike and you need to carry a hefty lock. I have a £2k push bike but it isn't insured - I'm just careful with it.

 

[mitzimad]

One where insurers would go to the effort & expense of trying to accurately weigh a vehicle .

TBH, the law enforcers are unlikely to catch you for being a 100kg overweight (uk), they have worse offenders to catch...

View attachment 306590
It's more about knowing your weight to stay within the law & have a margin of safety.

i doubt that is anywhere near its gross weight looks like furniture and shelving and thats probably a 4tonnes transit

 

[wotme]

Update regarding my request to SvTech to up-rate the GVW from 3400k to 3500k The reply was Yes no need to do anything mechanically, just a paper exercise is all that's needed, please send £312 to obtain new data and forms to send to the DVLA.
So technically I have a van that's quite capable of supporting 3500k but its illegal for it to do so unless I pay £312 for the privilege. I can't help feeling somethings not quite right somehow and I'm being taken for a very shifty / shafty ride

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[Minxy]

Update regarding my request to SvTech to up-rate the GVW from 3400k to 3500k The reply was Yes no need to do anything mechanically, just a paper exercise is all that's needed, please send £312 to obtain new data and forms to send to the DVLA.
So technically I have a van that's quite capable of supporting 3500k but its illegal for it to do so unless I pay £312 for the privilege. I can't help feeling somethings not quite right somehow and I'm being taken for a very shifty / shafty ride

There is a cheaper way to do it, use the chap I found called John Ruffles, usually half the cost of SVTech for the same thing. Details on the forum.

 

[wotme]

Thanks Minxy Girl I'll check it out tomorrow, Oops, its already tomorrow, nighty night.

 

[Pausim]

Update regarding my request to SvTech to up-rate the GVW from 3400k to 3500k The reply was Yes no need to do anything mechanically, just a paper exercise is all that's needed, please send £312 to obtain new data and forms to send to the DVLA.
So technically I have a van that's quite capable of supporting 3500k but its illegal for it to do so unless I pay £312 for the privilege. I can't help feeling somethings not quite right somehow and I'm being taken for a very shifty / shafty ride

Perhaps you should be blaming whoever was responsible for registering the vehicle at 3400kg, when it could have been 3500kg in the first place. Makes no sense to me but you can’t expect others to put it right without charging for their time and expertise.

 

[138go]

I would guess yes ,a greater payload,as they rarely have different brakes ,wheel cylinders, shocks ,springs, axles , once you have gone over the 3tonne weight it will all be rated at 3,5 tonnes but just plated lower. It is all very odd & there must be a financial reason the manufacturers specify all these odd weights but I've no idea what it is?

If you have a look at the difference between a Fiat lightweight chassis and the heavy chassis you will notice that the heavy chassis has two leafs to the spring at the back rather than one. It also comes with bigger wheels 16" rather that 15" and different tires. As the wheels are bigger the speedo drive is different. From memory I think the final drive in the gearbox is also different.

 

[wotme]

You're quite right pausim and I agree with you as far as paying for some ones services to uprate the GVW. What went against he grain was the £312 quoted by SVTech.
Thanks to Minxy Girl I have just saved myself £132, that's the sort of post I like, thank you Minxy Girl I owe you a drink.

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[MHdreaming]

I've just posted the forms to SvTech enquiring about upgrading the MVW, I will let you know what they have to say in due course.
I don't know what action the police might take if they pull you over and find your MH overweight, depends what sort of day the copper is having I suppose. There was mention of a 5% leeway but I wouldn't count on it. What ever they throw at you it can't be as bad as causing a fatal incident because you were overloaded and lost control. Oh, and if your insurance company discovered your van was unroadworthy they would definitely not pay out.

3.3 Excess weight offences

​

When a fixed penalty notice or conditional offer is issued for an excess weight offence, the examiner will also prevent the vehicle going any further.

​

This is to:

​

• stop an overweight vehicle being used on the road
• preserve road safety

​

​

A fixed penalty is the preferred option for dealing with excess weight offences unless:

​

• the offence is too serious
• the maximum number of penalty notices would be exceeded

​

​

The table below shows the current graduated penalty levels for excess weight matters.

​

[TR]
[TH]

Severity​

[/TH]
[TH]

Endorsable​

[/TH]
[TH]

Fixed penalty amount​

[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Less than 10%[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[TD]£100[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10% up to but not including 15%[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[TD]£200[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15% and over[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[TD]£300[/TD]
[/TR]

​

A £100 penalty will be given for a 0% to 9.99% overload, but DVSA examiners will allow a 5% leeway before issuing a fixed penalty or prohibition, unless the relevant weight has been exceeded by 1 tonne or more.

​

Normally, a fixed penalty would be inappropriate for serious cases of overloading - for example when the vehicle is overloaded by 30% and over, or the excess weight is 5 tonnes - so a court summons would be issued instead.

​

If the excess weight and the way the load is carried is having a significant effect on road safety - for example, serious instability or loss of control, these other offences will mean a court summons, with the excess weight being part of the offence/s.

DVSA roadside checks: fines and financial deposits

www.gov.uk