Payload - yet again I'm afraid! Where's it gone?!

[Joie de vivre]

Hi folks.
Planning our sea kayaking trip to Norway in our Globestar 640 DK 6.3m van. Should have 550kg payload. We've loaded our gear, except for daily clothing, food, toiletries, computer, sat nav, cover for bikes. We deliberately filled up water tank (supposedly 100 l but gauge says 75%), filled up gas and diesel - for worst case scenario. On weighbridge we are 3680kg with 2 people.
I am surprised by this.

Question: Is an automatic Comfortmatic gearbox heavier than a manual? it's a 2.3 150bhp.
Have attached photos of brochure and plate on drivers door. Any comments or clarification about the plate welcome.

Question: how on earth do folks manage with electric bikes? ours are standard MTB at 30kg for the pair

Snag, my husband just turned 70, so can't drive if we up rate the van to 4000kg?

Thanks

 

[PaulW2]

If your husband didn't retain a C1 licence entitlement he won't be able to drive a van that is plated heavier than 3,500, you're correct.

My suspicion is that a very significant percentage of people manage by not weighing their vans, much like they don't weigh their cars

In another thread a member who is based in France reports encountering this, where it's acknowledged that many French vans are overweight for their plates (with the identical van being plated 3,500 in France and 3,800 in Germany).

 

[starquake]

And yes, a autobox is heavier than a manual.

Aand like PaulW2 says I really suspect most people are oblivious to this, as there seems to be near 0 enforcement from aneqdotes around here, when we ask about people who have actually got a fine on here, the answers are nil!. The issue being we've already pointed out they have weighbridges integrated in road surfaces in UK at least which could flag you if programmed so do so, so a few people could be "a software" update away from being caught.

 

[97243]

Yep, that was me. Welcome to our world

Off to the weighbridge tomorrow

Our commune's Mairie have told me that the quarry up the road offers a weighbridge service, so I have booked the Esterel in for tomorrow. I've never done this before, so looking for opinions on whether to preload it as for a trip or to weigh the van empty? At the moment I have about a third of...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[Pausim]

Sadly the payload figures can’t be relied on. Firstly the manufacturers are allowed a 5% tolerance on their figures so the MIRO figure of 2970kg might really be 3118kg, it is possible that your payload started off at only 382kg. From the payload has to be deducted all the packages, factory fitted extras and accessories added to the original purchase. The auto box is one of many things that will already be eating into your payload. Most of the weight of the full water tank probably also has to come out of the payload, many vans now come with a travelling position on the water tank of say 20 litres and it is this that is allowed for in the payload not the 100 litres.

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[hja]

It is also possible that any wind out awning or solar panel wasn’t included in those brochure weights.
We have a 6.4 m panel van, automatic, no bikes but two small mobility scooters about 17 kg each. No gear like your kayak etc, full fuel, 100litres water, some food and clothes and we are just under 3500, at a weigh bridge. We travel light and I have weighed everything that is loose so I have some idea of weight if we change things around. We have swapped our old battery for lithium, which is lighter.

 

[Joie de vivre]

Sadly the payload figures can’t be relied on. Firstly the manufacturers are allowed a 5% tolerance on their figures so the MIRO figure of 2970kg might really be 3118kg, it is possible that your payload started off at only 382kg. From the payload has to be deducted all the packages, factory fitted extras and accessories added to the original purchase. The auto box is one of many things that will already be eating into your payload. Most of the weight of the full water tank probably also has to come out of the payload, many vans now come with a travelling position on the water tank of say 20 litres and it is this that is allowed for in the payload not the 100 litres.

So are we allowed 5% tolerance on our 3500kg limit? or even 10% as someone else told me?
20l is well nigh useless if you want to use the van properly off grid!

 

[Joie de vivre]

It is also possible that any wind out awning or solar panel wasn’t included in those brochure weights.
We have a 6.4 m panel van, automatic, no bikes but two small mobility scooters about 17 kg each. No gear like your kayak etc, full fuel, 100litres water, some food and clothes and we are just under 3500, at a weigh bridge. We travel light and I have weighed everything that is loose so I have some idea of weight if we change things around. We have swapped our old battery for lithium, which is lighter.

yes, we don't have an awning, but we did add a solar panel and tow bar and reverse camera and winterised it. Going Lithium might be a help. That's another issue.

 

[Pausim]

So are we allowed 5% tolerance on our 3500kg limit? or even 10% as someone else told me?
20l is well nigh useless if you want to use the van properly off grid!

The DVSA advise their staff to allow 5% and to use a graduated scale for fines. This is not a statutory allowance and is not binding on enforcers. It also doesn’t stop them from expecting you to reduce the weight before driving off. In practice there seems to be very few reports of motorhomes being pulled over for weighing in the UK.

I agree 20l of water doesn’t go far. Best to read the small print in the weights brochure to see how Globecar calculated your payload.

 

[andysam]

Manufacturers weights are with one occupant (driver @ 75kg), empty water and 75% (I think)fuel. So with a pax and full tanks you must be adding about 200-250kg straight away.

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[davidroxburgh]

Could you check when your husband passed his test. If before 1/1/97 he would be entitled until 70 then provided he passes the addition requirements involving a medical and eyesight test. D4 drivers among others do the medical and eyesight test at a very fair price.You will find lots of threads on that subject to help in research.

 

[PaulW2]

The recurring question when this question comes up is: who has been weighed by the authorities and fined? I haven't been weighed.

 

[97243]

The recurring question when this question comes up is: who has been weighed by the authorities and fined? I haven't been weighed.

My insurance policy quite clearly states that it only covers the van if driven at 3500 kg or lower. That's the problem.

 

[Emmit]

My insurance policy quite clearly states that it only covers the van if driven at 3500 kg or lower. That's the problem.

That problem is not insurmountable.
The vehicle at the mo has a Max of 3500kg.
Therefore it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that the Insurance Co. quite reasonably ask/demand that, when in use, you drive it with that as a max.
It would allow them to wriggle out of a claim if they could prove that you were (grossly) overweight.
Contact them and ask what their viewpoint would be if the vehicle was legally up plated and was driven by a person, ie husband, who had achieved C1 status and, unless he has particular health problems, should be able to pass the medical.

 

[TheTwoOfUs]

What were your axle weights when you had it weighed as this will give you an indication of where the bulk of the weight has been added.

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[PaulW2]

My insurance policy quite clearly states that it only covers the van if driven at 3500 kg or lower. That's the problem.

Interesting. Don't think I've ever seen that in one of my policies in the UK, though I did spend more time with heavier vans than with sub-3.5 t ones.

And for a French insurer to say that when it's commonly understood that many (most?) French vans travel overweight? Hmm. I wonder if they all say that?

 

[Minxy]

PVCs are always heavier than their coachbuilt sized equivalents as PVC haven't got lighter weight bodies etc so why they say they've got over 500kg of payload is always suspect, it's usually a max of 400kg if you're lucky and that's without any extras! We've had 3 PVCs the last 2 being XLWB as you have and we knew from the start that uprating was going to be needed in order to make it usable.

The tow bar you've added won't have helped as they can add quite a lot of weight depending on the manufacturer so if you're not going to use it get it removed however it won't solve your overall issue though so other things are going to have to be jettisoned if you want to stay at a max of 3500kg, only you can decide what those will be (husband? ). One thing you could consider is actually keep the tow bar and getting a small trailer for your extra stuff to keep the PVC's weight at 3500kg, you've got plenty of town allowance so that's not an issue.

If you do go down the uprating route then VWE come highly recommended and are about half the cost of the SVTech who also do it, as you've got the heavy chassis already there won't be any need for mods at all, so although it' just a paper exercise you can't do it yourself as you need an engineer's report which is where VWT/SVTech come into it. One benefit is that you'll pay much cheaper road tax ... no I'm NOT kidding, it's only £165 a year and has been that rate for yonks, no idea what the real reason is for it but I can't see it changing for a long time, if ever and the saving will soon offset the cost of uprating and your hubby's medical if he applies to get his C1 back.

 

[Minxy]

What were your axle weights when you had it weighed as this will give you an indication of where the bulk of the weight has been added.

With a rear axle capacity of 2400kg they'd be hard pushed to get anywhere near that but certainly worth checking.

 

[Joie de vivre]

Could you check when your husband passed his test. If before 1/1/97 he would be entitled until 70 then provided he passes the addition requirements involving a medical and eyesight test. D4 drivers among others do the medical and eyesight test at a very fair price.You will find lots of threads on that subject to help in research.

Sadly I think this is the way we might have to go. Been quoted for £140 to fill in a medical form which we could easily and truthfully do ourselves, because he has no issues whatsoever at 70 (birthday just last week). Had thought about this around insurance renewal time mid November, and it all seemed just so complicated and expensive! Adding it on and making a change to the insurance will be even worse now? And what's the best way to up-plate?

 

[Joie de vivre]

My insurance policy quite clearly states that it only covers the van if driven at 3500 kg or lower. That's the problem.

That's always the worry.

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[Joie de vivre]

What were your axle weights when you had it weighed as this will give you an indication of where the bulk of the weight has been added.

We didn't get that info as the guy at the weighbridge just did it informally for us.

 

[Joie de vivre]

With a rear axle capacity of 2400kg they'd be hard pushed to get anywhere near that but certainly worth checking.

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying here. Can you explain please?

 

[Stealaway]

Hi folks.
Planning our sea kayaking trip to Norway in our Globestar 640 DK 6.3m van. Should have 550kg payload. We've loaded our gear, except for daily clothing, food, toiletries, computer, sat nav, cover for bikes. We deliberately filled up water tank (supposedly 100 l but gauge says 75%), filled up gas and diesel - for worst case scenario. On weighbridge we are 3680kg with 2 people.
I am surprised by this.

Question: Is an automatic Comfortmatic gearbox heavier than a manual? it's a 2.3 150bhp.
Have attached photos of brochure and plate on drivers door. Any comments or clarification about the plate welcome.

Question: how on earth do folks manage with electric bikes? ours are standard MTB at 30kg for the pair

Snag, my husband just turned 70, so can't drive if we up rate the van to 4000kg?

Thanks



View attachment 858803

View attachment 858804

I could tour my 3.5 tonne M/H under weight by only every only half filling the diesel tank.
Only putting enough water in the tank for when we wanted a shower and non on the way to a destination that had water.
I fitted lightweight Safefill refillable gas bottles.
Only carried the bare minimum of shoes/ coats/ clothing and only the equipment needed for that trip
Certainly no bikes or Kayaks.
550kg wont go far - 100kg in water 80 kg in diesel now you have only 370 kg spare payload

Ducato vans are plated at the factory to be safe at 3850kg but down plated by the M/H makers to 3500kg

 

[Minxy]

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying here. Can you explain please?

According to your weight plate you have a maximum capacity on your front axle of 2000kg and on the rear 2400kg, this is due to having an XLWB (extra long wheel base) which is always on the heavy chassis (LWB vans are often on the light chassis with max capacities of 1850kg & 2000kg).

What this means is that your rear axle maximum capacity is 2400kg and although the rear is where most of the weight will be carried you'd really struggle to overload that unless you stuck a motorcycle/scooter or something else on the rear which you don't seem to plan on doing.

 

[Pausim]

Manufacturers weights are with one occupant (driver @ 75kg), empty water and 75% (I think)fuel. So with a pax and full tanks you must be adding about 200-250kg straight away.

Globecar more likely to be in line with the EU regulations which allow for unladen weight, some water, 90% fuel, 75kg driver, a full aluminium gas bottle at 16kg and supplied tools such as tyre inflator.

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[davidroxburgh]

Sadly I think this is the way we might have to go. Been quoted for £140 to fill in a medical form which we could easily and truthfully do ourselves, because he has no issues whatsoever at 70 (birthday just last week). Had thought about this around insurance renewal time mid November, and it all seemed just so complicated and expensive! Adding it on and making a change to the insurance will be even worse now? And what's the best way to up-plate?

Do check as £140 sounds much more than D4Drivers?

 

[daveclare]

Is the humongous elephant in the room as far as motorhomes go. Dealers are as full of sxxt as the imaginary payloads of manufacturers.

Try and get a straight informative answer on the net. It's easier finding a truthful politician.

 

[Joie de vivre]

I could tour my 3.5 tonne M/H under weight by only every only half filling the diesel tank.
Only putting enough water in the tank for when we wanted a shower and non on the way to a destination that had water.
I fitted lightweight Safefill refillable gas bottles.
Only carried the bare minimum of shoes/ coats/ clothing and only the equipment needed for that trip
Certainly no bikes or Kayaks.
550kg wont go far - 100kg in water 80 kg in diesel now you have only 370 kg spare payload

Ducato vans are plated at the factory to be safe at 3850kg but down plated by the M/H makers to 3500kg

Ah yes, those kind of restrictions would scupper our use of the van really.

 

[PaulW2]

Do check as £140 sounds much more than D4Drivers?

Agree. Some years ago my GP surgery wanted almost that much. And then it took a long time for my licence to come back because they said more than strictly needed to be said and the DVLA had to wait for the qualified people to read/sign off on what had been said.

Next time D4D at a fraction of the cost, and plain sailing.

 

[Joie de vivre]

Sadly I think this is the way we might have to go. Been quoted for £140 to fill in a medical form which we could easily and truthfully do ourselves, because he has no issues whatsoever at 70 (birthday just last week). Had thought about this around insurance renewal time mid November, and it all seemed just so complicated and expensive! Adding it on and making a change to the insurance will be even worse now? And what's the best way to up-plate?

PVCs are always heavier than their coachbuilt sized equivalents as PVC haven't got lighter weight bodies etc so why they say they've got over 500kg of payload is always suspect, it's usually a max of 400kg if you're lucky and that's without any extras! We've had 3 PVCs the last 2 being XLWB as you have and we knew from the start that uprating was going to be needed in order to make it usable.

The tow bar you've added won't have helped as they can add quite a lot of weight depending on the manufacturer so if you're not going to use it get it removed however it won't solve your overall issue though so other things are going to have to be jettisoned if you want to stay at a max of 3500kg, only you can decide what those will be (husband? ). One thing you could consider is actually keep the tow bar and getting a small trailer for your extra stuff to keep the PVC's weight at 3500kg, you've got plenty of town allowance so that's not an issue.

If you do go down the uprating route then VWE come highly recommended and are about half the cost of the SVTech who also do it, as you've got the heavy chassis already there won't be any need for mods at all, so although it' just a paper exercise you can't do it yourself as you need an engineer's report which is where VWT/SVTech come into it. One benefit is that you'll pay much cheaper road tax ... no I'm NOT kidding, it's only £165 a year and has been that rate for yonks, no idea what the real reason is for it but I can't see it changing for a long time, if ever and the saving will soon offset the cost of uprating and your hubby's medical if he applies to get his C1 back.

If we up-plate to 3850kg or whatever that cut off is, would my husband still need a C1?