Payload Opinion Please

[Ashypants]

further to my previous post about brochure weights and downplating - the van we are looking at has been on a weighbridge - 1/2 tank diesel, full tank of water (100l ish), Gas bottle - no driver. The weight came in at 3160kg - leaving 340kg payload for me, the wife, and 2 year old, plus ‘stuff’ - food, clothes, awning, pots & pans, camping chairs & table, Caracas, bikes etc. Is this sufficient or way under for week/weekends away? We are not planning on touring for longer than 2 weeks at a time - wouldn’t need to have 100% full water tanks all the time.

Cheers.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Or you just downplate it again and work around it

 

[Bart]

No offence meant but you could have a medical problem just after getting it and then you're stuffed

But that could be the case for ANY of us here , none of us know what is around the corner medial wise irrespective of age , and if someone in the age bracket of the OP who did not get their C1 entitlement automatically when they passed their driving test was to be unable to drive a C1 vehicle now due to health problems , them i'm sure it would be serious which in turn would probably mean they would not be able to drive full stop , and not just a vehicle under 3500kg

 

[soreeyes]

You obviously have to downplate due to your licences but you could tow a small trailer to carry things like table, chairs, bikes etc.....all the heavier stuff.
Your B licences should cover for up to a 750kg unbraked box trailer.
Only downside, you may pay more on European & UK toll roads.

This is what I do as I wanted to stay at 3500 kg and after sitting down working out weights I use a 6x4 box trailer which gives me a extra 750 kg for long stays or no trailer for weekends short trips .

 

[mfw]

But that could be the case for ANY of us here , none of us know what is around the corner medial wise irrespective of age , and if someone in the age bracket of the OP who did not get their C1 entitlement automatically when they passed their driving test was to be unable to drive a C1 vehicle now due to health problems , them i'm sure it would be serious which in turn would probably mean they would not be able to drive full stop , and not just a vehicle under 3500kg

My son started shaking once he was out of it ( didn't know what was going on ) then it happened again between 14 and 19 doctor said epilepsy cost him license for a year had to have no problem for year doctor had to sign him fit to drive 15 years on he is still on restricted time span license 3 or 5 yrs now dont know if he could even get c1 license now

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[Larby]

I am waiting for 1st C1 renewal to drop on door mat. Luckily I enjoy good health.
For over 30 years I towed a caravan, then retired and bought a MH so I don't want to tow a trailer.
Prior to checking in at JAWS Thetford meet last year, I visited the weighbridge, full tank of water (125 litres), 2 full gas bottles, fuel tank brimmed, food for an army, everything for a holiday anywhere, we had surfboards and wet-suit as we headed to Cornwall after the meet.
I had spare payload. I do not want to worry about running out of water or gas or getting nicked for being overweight. Autotrail Delaware 4200kgs
I want peace and tranquility, the retirement was a long time coming, damned if I want to worry about weight, I spent 50 years worrying about paying bills and raising a family.
If you need the payload get it, deal with the possibility of going to 3500kg when time comes, as I may have to one day, BUT UNTIL THEN, milk the opportunity for all you can

 

[Larrynwin]

This is what I do as I wanted to stay at 3500 kg and after sitting down working out weights I use a 6x4 box trailer which gives me a extra 750 kg for long stays or no trailer for weekends short trips .

With a braked trailer and a B+E licence you are not limited to 750kg.

 

[Minxy]

The OP is allowed to tow a trailer up to 750kg (trailer and contents weight) but that then means adding a towbar which will reduces what he can carry in the MH!

I can't see the MH asked about being suitable as he'll be onto a looser from day one and as the needs/wants of the family grow, ie taking more bikes, sports kit etc, even uprated to 3650kg won't be enough so could prove costly as it would mean changing the MH.

 

[soreeyes]

With a braked trailer and a B+E licence you are not limited to 750kg.

I still have full grand father rights but by choice wanted to stay at 3500 kg . I tow a car on a trailer that I use as the box trailer when not using the box trailer itself .

The OP with a B licence entitlement can tow a 750 kg trailer so is an option if he does not want take C1 .

 

[pandas]

Remember a motorhome is about the freedom, not being limited before you even start your adventures. I believe the weighbridge calculations should include: full tank of fuel, 1/4 tank of fresh water, a driver, anything you would normally propose to carry on your trips ie bikes, food etc. Also include a passenger. Then you will have a print out were you ever to be stop checked, happened to us once. If you are involved in an accident you will not think about emptying the fresh water to reduce the weight! Plus they are likely take you to a weighbridge and if over the plated specification it will invalidate your vehicle insurance. We upgraded as a paper excersise from 3500, where we were near the limit to 4250. Enjoy.

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[soreeyes]

The Mention of downplating is a bit confusing by the OP .

Driving licence entitlement is based on plated maximum gross weight . The vehicle would have to be plated at 3500 kg or less or it would be illegal to drive it . Which could effect your insurance .

I find the main issue with my motorhome on the light chassis is the 2000 kg rear axle . If I increased the plated gvw to 3850 kg the rear axle would still be 2000 kg .

 

[Lenny HB]

I find the main issue with my motorhome on the light chassis is the 2000 kg rear axle . If I increased the plated gvw to 3850 kg the rear axle would still be 2000 kg .

Had that problem on out last van I upgraded to 3850 but only gained 150kg do to rear axle loading, we were still on the limit on the axle. It can be uprated to 2240kg by fitting wider tyres (not needed if the wheels are 16" ) and air suspension.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

My head is about to explode ( need to uprate my brain)

When I get the new MH in 2 weeks I will load it and weigh and post....might be a guide to others

 

[Ashypants]

My head is about to explode ( need to uprate my brain)

When I get the new MH in 2 weeks I will load it and weigh and post....might be a guide to others

How'd you think I feel I just asked what I thought was a simple question Anyways having discussed with the wife and weighed stuff last few days we are going to look at the van and see where we go from there.....Most 3500kg have similar brochure listed payloads so I think it's a case of being conservative at this stage of our motorhoming journey. We wont be living off grid for days on end, we will be travelling around and stopping at sites or aires etc with services so travelling with low or no water seems a simple compromise to make - I also hadnt appreciated the trailer option either with opens up the possibility of other travelling with us (putting stuff in trailer, not them before anybody comments )

Speaking to SVTech Downplating is relativly easy - Get a formal weighbridge slip, fill in a form, send them a picture of logbook & chassis plate, pay SVTech £120, send them form & weighbridge slip, they send new plating certificate/report, send V5 off with SVTech report stating new weight.

Throughout this we've had some very worrying advice from DVLA - 3 different people told ourselves and the seller that as long as we dont drive it over 3500kg it doesnt matter that the revenue weight is listed on the V5.....WTF!! I rang them back a third time and asked to speak to a 'senior member of staff' - When I asked the same question I was told categorically 'No' I would not be legal if I drove a revenue weighted vehicle of 3650kg on a B licence; which I obviously knew already - The person did say they were going to 'investigate' the incorrect advice given out, but couldnt guarantee they could track the people down as 'not all calls are recorded'....Shocking!!

 

[Mickey1]

I still wonder what happened to the van that I took back, some unsuspecting person is probably driving it unknowingly overweight. For those of you who remember (coming up to a year) I had 60 kg payload.

Mickey

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[Ashypants]

I still wonder what happened to the van that I took back, some unsuspecting person is probably driving it unknowingly overweight. For those of you who remember (coming up to a year) I had 60 kg payload.

Mickey

Wow - thats nothing - Im guessing the dealer just sold it you without checking payload etc before? The guy we may be buying the van off has had it on 2 weighbridges and has also offered to drive the V5 to Swansea to speed up the process - Great service so far even though no commitment made or money crossed hands.

 

[soreeyes]

Licence entitlement is MAM or maximum allowed mass or maximum plated weights . Licence offences don't need to be put on a weighbridge as it is not actuals needed .

Construction and use offences require a weighbridge ticket as evidence against the plated weight .

With a B licence the regulations are 3500 kg mam which requires the vehicle to be plated with a gvw 3500 kg or less . As said it can effect your insurance driving not in accordance with your licence

 

[Lenny HB]

Wow - thats nothing - Im guessing the dealer just sold it you without checking payload etc before? The guy we may be buying the van off has had it on 2 weighbridges and has also offered to drive the V5 to Swansea to speed up the process - Great service so far even though no commitment made or money crossed hands.

Talking out of his backside, you can only deal with DVLA via post these days and a dealer would know that. If you do go ahead with it get him to pay and sort the down plating as a condition of sale.
I still think it's far too little payload to be practical.

 

[gus-lopez]

A lot of motorhomes are overweight but look ok as against a few motorhomes that almost wipe their rear end on the road and are clearly overweight or shot suspension

then there are some,like my mate's pioneer ,that have the alko low chassis & barely 5" of clearance without overloading.

Why talk of keeping the water topped up? Why not carry as small amount. We set off with 30 litres in the tank and a full kettle. We add 10 litres a day to the tank for washing etc. all cooking and drinking is from a 10 litre collapsible tank and we use perhaps 5 litres a day. So even if we don't find water every day we still have 24 hours reserve. On fuel, we fill up and do 400 miles before thinking of filling.

I manage to shower using only 5 litres/day yet I cannot get anywhere near your small usage & that includes using bottled for the kettle.& I run with tanks full always.

But that is the same £1000 as a class C test---that will last 35 years

Not if you fall foul of one of the 100+ reportable issues on the dvla's site.


I struggle to understand running anything half full or empty. & yes the manufacturer's should be made to show a legal weight that includes full fuel, full water, full gas, all belted passengers capable of being carried & still have a usable payload.

 

[Ashypants]

Talking out of his backside, you can only deal with DVLA via post these days and a dealer would know that. If you do go ahead with it get him to pay and sort the down plating as a condition of sale.
I still think it's far too little payload to be practical.

Thanks

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[Langtoftlad]

snip...Most 3500kg have similar brochure listed payloads so I think it's a case of being conservative at this stage of our motorhoming journey...snip

TBH I think most brochure listed payloads are idealistic, fanciful, devious if not downright deceitful.
To get within the 3500kg limit, most MH manufacturers are having to be "creative".

I was shocked when my new "trip-ready" van was just under the limit - that's a PVC with just me & the dog.
I really can't imagine that a larger MH with a couple of people onboard & all their clobber will be legal.

I will be getting an up plate later this year because I can't be doing with double guessing myself all the time & trying to make sure that for everything I might put in, I have to take something out.

 

[soreeyes]

The weights get very misty and misleading when you get European motorhomes and models then for the UK market usually with bigger fridges and ovens and then dealers order motorhomes with extras that they know makes them more attractive to sell but the brochure weight is still quoted .

For new buyers that don't understand Miro and kerbweights and maximum weights it can be very confusing .

 

[suavecarve]

@Ashypants I have just reread your original post.
If i have this right, you are buying a second hand van, when he weighed it at a weighbridge it had 360 kgs left over which did not include the driver but had full water and obviously includes the batteries and awnings and anything else attached to the motor
If that is the case, then 2 people and a little un (assuming you arent american) going away for weekends with bikes or up to a fortnight seems just about ok.
The only question for me is how economical with what was in the van was he when he weighed it.
This thread https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/my-portable-weighbridge.148982/ (if i have done the link correctly) was one about our weight issue and buying a Reich weighing machine which we carry with us. As far as i am concerned £140 well spent for the weighing scales and uprating.
Might be worth asking to borrow a set off a nice funster when or if you go to see the van

 

[suavecarve]

Heres the main point of the thread

So the brand new van with an extra battery, solar panel, bike rack and a few things here and there including a bike ramp, Gas, all the cutlery and just me (85kgs) and should be limited 3,500 kgs with 450 kg of payload
Front axle 1601 kgs
Rear axle 1773 kgs
Total 3374 kgs
126 kgs left

My choices now are:
Motorbike 102 kgs
Crash helmet and safety gear 5kgs
19 litres of diesel

I will have to leave behind

The wife
Water
food
clothing
Any 3rd 4th 5th or 6th person who thought they would freeload off me (children)
Bedding
Wine (i might ditch the crash helmet)
Books maps cameras laptops
Toilet roll (no need as i cant afford to carry the excess round with me)
Personal hygiene stuff (overrated anyway)
Hairdryer and straighteners (forgot i had already ditched the wife at Dover)

uprating to 4,100 kgs soonest.
Anybody near to Hindhead or Guildford (when i am working) can use it if you want to.

 

[deleted-member02]

There's no mention of bikes so far...
3 bikes at a modest 10kg each plus weight of bike rack (9kg), straps and bike lock totalling about 40kg.
Also need to consider lever effect, as bikes are set back from rear axle.
I'm not an engineer, so don't know the calcs - what's the overall effect on payload? 45 - 50kg??

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[Ashypants]

There's no mention of bikes so far...
3 bikes at a modest 10kg each plus weight of bike rack (9kg), straps and bike lock totalling about 40kg.
Also need to consider lever effect, as bikes are set back from rear axle.
I'm not an engineer, so don't know the calcs - what's the overall effect on payload? 45 - 50kg??

Bikes possible - but not always. Van was weighed with 3 bike carrier already on; So i've 'budgeted' 40kg for two bikes (and child seat) - but thanks for the reminder

 

[Langtoftlad]

The only way you'll really know is once you've loaded up, set off for your first trip & stop on the way, at a weighbridge - by which time it'll be too late .

So i've 'budgeted' 40kg for two bikes (and child seat)

Depending on the overhang, you might be surprised at the effect a 10kg bike will have on your back axle weight . I think [unless specialist] most bike will weigh nearer to 15kg than 10kg.

...and I have to say - I'm more than a little concerned that your poor child will be relegated to an outside seat strapped to the bike rack... , not even Ryanair do that [yet]

 

[Ashypants]

The only way you'll really know is once you've loaded up, set off for your first trip & stop on the way, at a weighbridge - by which time it'll be too late .


Depending on the overhang, you might be surprised at the effect a 10kg bike will have on your back axle weight . I think [unless specialist] most bike will weigh nearer to 15kg than 10kg.

...and I have to say - I'm more than a little concerned that your poor child will be relegated to an outside seat strapped to the bike rack... , not even Ryanair do that [yet]

Favourite response of the entire thread

 

[Ian]

My understanding is that one litre of water = 1Kg. I assume it would be the same for fuel as well. Therefore a 90ltr tank would weigh 90Kg just for the liquid. Working on that basis it would help to work out how much you can carry.

 

[Lenny HB]

My understanding is that one litre of water = 1Kg. I assume it would be the same for fuel as well. Therefore a 90ltr tank would weigh 90Kg just for the liquid. Working on that basis it would help to work out how much you can carry.

90Lt of Diesel weighs 75kg.

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[Cheshirecat57]

90Lt of Diesel weighs 75kg.

That's why it floats on water