Payload Clarification

[rikardo]

We're hoping to view a hymer 544 motorhome tomorrow.

Whilst doing a few background checks in advance, it has come to light that the Revenue Weight is stated on the GOV.uk website as 3900kg. This puts it as a ducato 18 MWB.

Holding only a Cat B license we are restricted to 3.5T. Is it possible the payload will be registered as 3.5T on the V5? would an HPI check clarify this? similar threads seem to suggest the payloads were often downgraded to allow the general population to drive them. We will enquire with the vendor in the morning if this isn't a simple answer.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Minxy]

There is a line on the V5 that says "mass in service" but it is normally left blank on a motorhome mine is.
When registering you are asked for unladen weight, neither figure is correct for that. Mass in service would be the higher technical mass figure which includes factory fitted options so in theory your V5 is incorrect.

See above, the 2995kg figure IS correct IMV as the ONLY factory fitted option is a battery which can be removed if he needs to prove the lower weight, but even if it WAS included it would still be below the 'magic' 3050kg because of speed limit rules unless he wants a vehicle that could be difficult to sell in the future as he'd need to tell all new owners of the restriction - if it's registered at 3067kg I doubt anyone would be able to change it subsequently!

Why are you saying my V5C is wrong?

 

[Lenny HB]

The filled fuel tank and driver weight are superfluous to the VEHICLE's unladen weight as they can be ANY weight depending on the amount of fuel in and the size of the driver! Similarly the extra leisure battery can be removed so should not be included either.

I stand by my view that it is the lower weight that should be used, ie 2995kg. If you DO set it to the higher weight, ie 3067kg you will then be subject to LOWER speed limits in the UK which is based on the unladen weight of 3050kg, not the maximum weight as they do abroad.

So if I was the OP I'd put 2995kg on the paperwork, NOT 3067kg ...

Mel I have already clarified this in post #20 neither figure is correct for the unladen weight and even if the Mass in service figure is in the V5 it is still irrelevant for speed limit as that is governed by unladen weight.

 

[hilldweller]

Can I ask some a payload question please?
thanks!

Well you can but it is rude and inefficient to hijack another member's thread. You have then decide what posts are for you and he has to look through your distractions.

Start your won thread and all the information pertains to your enquiry.

 

[gerry mcg]

Well you can but it is rude and inefficient to hijack another member's thread. You have then decide what posts are for you and he has to look through your distractions.

Start your won thread and all the information pertains to your enquiry.

i thought it was good etiquette to search for threads of a similar topic and add to them ratther than have 5000 threads asking the same question.
you can't win with some people

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[Deleted member 29692]

In my experience the C of C figures are spot on also both the new Hymers we have had have been under the given brochure weight.

Hymer might be OK.

Many (most?) of the others aren't.

 

[Lenny HB]

Why are you saying my V5C is wrong?

I am assuming the figure you have on your V5 is on the line "Mass in service" which would be the Technical mass on the C of C.
This figure is irrelevant for speed limits as that is governed by the unladen weight which is not shown on the V5.

As I said eairler this line is not normally filled in on a vehicle registered as a Motor Caravan.

 

[hilldweller]

i thought it was good etiquette to search for threads of a similar topic and add to them ratther than have 5000 threads asking the same question.
you can't win with some people

Some forums like that when it is a thread on a single very focussed subject.

But generally on here folk start a new thread to get a fresh answer.

In this thread a specific make and model is being asked about. You step in, politely, and ask about a totally different make and model. Many people don't quote their post so much room for confusion.

 

[Puddleduck]

Thanks for the comments, overlooked this in our search so far.

There is so much to check out it is easy to overlook something that turns out to be vital.

And I bet the salesperson didn't ask about your licence and what you could legally drive.

Have you thought about taking the C1 (or even C) test?

 

[Vanman]

I think it's hard to argue with Minxy's logic. They both have a Globecar, they both have very similar documentation, why wouldn't you copy how the Manufacturer has done it, especially if it works out better for Gerry? It's very defensible even if it's in some way wrong technically.

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[gerry mcg]

Some forums like that when it is a thread on a single very focussed subject.

But generally on here folk start a new thread to get a fresh answer.

In this thread a specific make and model is being asked about. You step in, politely, and ask about a totally different make and model. Many people don't quote their post so much room for confusion.

Since the last activity on the thread was 19th May 2016, I respectfully ascertained the OP interest in the topic was over.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

@Minxy Girl Lenny's right Mel

Unladen weight, which is what the speed limit is based on is a true unladen weight, as the vehicle leaves the factory. It includes nothing other than the vehicle - no fuel or any other liquids.

It's not even recorded for motorhomes or campervans. It can't be when you think about it. It can only be done in the factory before fluids are added which for a motorhome means it would be the bare chassis which would be meaningless. All the stuff added to the bare chassis or van make it a camper are addons for the purposes of this.

MIRO and Mass in Service are completely different things.

 

[gus-lopez]

@Minxy Girl Lenny's right Mel

Unladen weight, which is what the speed limit is based on is a true unladen weight, as the vehicle leaves the factory. It includes nothing other than the vehicle - no fuel or any other liquids.

It's not even recorded for motorhomes or campervans. It can't be when you think about it. It can only be done in the factory before fluids are added which for a motorhome means it would be the bare chassis which would be meaningless. All the stuff added to the bare chassis or van make it a camper are addons for the purposes of this.

MIRO and Mass in Service are completely different things.

Then that is what the unladen weight is . The chassis cab before conversion. Mine has it ( as chassis cab ) , albeit it is Spanish registered.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Then that is what the unladen weight is . The chassis cab before conversion. Mine has it ( as chassis cab ) , albeit it is Spanish registered.

It is:

The unladen weight of any vehicle is the weight of the vehicle when it’s not carrying any passengers, goods or other items.

It includes the body and all parts normally used with the vehicle or trailer when it’s used on a road.

It doesn’t include the weight of the fuel or, if it’s an electric vehicle, the batteries.

That's why it is never recorded for motorhomes or campers. It's too ambiguous, that "other items" bit can easily be interpreted to mean the entire conversion of a coachbuilt motorhome.

It's just one daft bit of UK law that has never been addressed. It isn't relevant anywhere else in the EU. Even in the UK it's only motorhomes that are affected and I doubt anyone that matters is even aware of the hole in the law. That's why it's never been dealt with.

Don't worry about it basically. Drive at 70 or drive at 60. Nobody will care. Even if a plod was bored enough to pull you it would be impossible for all practical purposes to establish what the unladen weight of your vehicle is supposed to be.

 

[gerry mcg]

The 2 figures on my Globecar (which is a 6.3m one so a bit heavier than yours out of the factory) are:

View attachment 138475

So the figures you need are:

• 13. = 2910kg for F.1: Max. permissible mass
• 16.1 = 3499kg for G. Mass in service

I got my V5 back and the mass in service is recorded as 2910KG and a Max permissible mass of 3499kg I wanted to know the weight before I stuffed any junk in the van, so I went to the local council weighbridge today and the van weighed (completely empty water tanks and lockers, with awning fitted, Full gas bottle, 15l of fuel and me in it, came out as 3060kg, so I have another 439kg available if I Include Mrs McG, 100l of water and another 80l of fuel, that takes me to 3300kg, so a spare 200 kg for other stuff