Parking violation in privately managed Sainsbury’s car park

[Delboyarapaho]

Here's all the advice you need - I suggest you ignore some of the "wilder" suggestions below, a mixture of folklore and fantasy that could cost you more than paying the fine and putting it down to experience . . .

Appealing a parking ticket

How to appeal a parking charge notice, penalty charge notice or fixed penalty notice in England and Wales.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk

Thanks that’s very helpful.
I was hoping one of the responses might have already successfully appealed a parking charge notice and what arguments they used but not yet.
I am going to have a go and are formulating the arguments but not hopeful

 

[Googlebot]

Thanks that’s very helpful.
I was hoping one of the responses might have already successfully appealed a parking charge notice and what arguments they used but not yet.
I am going to have a go and are formulating the arguments but not hopeful

The problem is, if the T&C’s clearly say no motorhomes, you have no argument to form. You breached them and thus agreed to pay the charge.

It sucks, I hate them too and parking is becoming a pain in places.

Try not to prolong the annoyance.

 

[whingyraindrop]

I had something similar happen with Sainsburys, so I took my shopping receipt and parking fine letter (can’t remember the name of the car park management company) to the customer service desk in the store, and explained that I had shopped and eaten in their cafe. They took the details from the parking company letter, said they would get it cancelled and I didn’t hear anything else about it.

Apparently, as it’s free to park, the store had problems with people parking all day whilst catching buses into town for work, and with drivers of large vehicles parking up to sleep as they are near to an M1 junction. Its those people the fines were meant to deter.

 

[pelican]

Is this Parking Eye ??

If you are going to contest the ticket here are some 'rules'

Under no circumstances are you to communicate via phone with them.
They will get your land line number and they will call and make threats.
They must never actually talk to 'you' on the phone, be the cleaner, be the lodger in your house, never be 'you'.
They may well obtain your mobile number. same rules apply, if you get a call from a number you do not recognise and they ask if it's you, say no, wrong number.

Under no circumstances do you have an email address.
You do not have access to the internet.

The ONLY way you communicate with them is via letter.
Companies are no longer geared up to deal with letters, they don't have post rooms and processes any more.
Which means that it costs them several pounds to deal with a letter.

To increase their letter process costs:
Envelopes are to be hand written, addresses as 'personal' for the MD only (get the name from companies house)
All letters are to the MD directly.
It means the most expensive person in the entire company is wasting their valuable time and the time of their secretary in dealing with your issue.
It means that as a minimum you are using up the time of at least 4 people for each and every letter.

Do not have your return address on it (It means they have to pay the DVLA to get your address)

Never answer all the questions on one go, do this over multiple letters, send as far apart in time as possible.

If you have several reason as to why you should not pay (signage, times, size of vehicle, etc) do not list all the reasons in one letter, do it over time, each letter containing a different reason

Also refer to previous letters, but never give details of letters, means someone has to search through to find them.

Never give your full name if they have called you "A B Smith' then that is what you call yourself, in fact maybe slightly misspell your own surname.

If you are forced to make a payment, do so by cheque, and if you can make it a penny short it mucks up their accounts system

Always leave any reply until the last possible day of reply, but date your letter a few days before.

Also add a clause on the bottom of every letter to say that your time is charge at £60 ph or part thereof

Put "E&OE" discreetly on the top or bottom of every letter

If you can, print the letters on blue paper, it means they can not be scanned, which means they have to rely on paper filing, which is also something modern companies are no longer able to do.

Keep copies of every letter

Be prepared for this to drag on for months

Be totally prepared to take it to court.

The idea is that even if they do win in the end, the cost to them will be greater than the money they receive.
A "Pyric Victory"

Blimey I think it would be easier to pay up or abide by the terms in the first place

 

[Tonks]

Will a ’Van with windows’ get away with parking here ?

No. Because tucked away in the T&Cs (which are often only found via going to a website which is referred to in tiny print on the sign) will be something to the effect that 'any vehicle adapted for sleeping' falls under their description of Motorhome or camper'. Did some research into this a while back...

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[ChrisL]

Has anyone tried the Godfather method? You'd have to find a dead horse somewhere, maybe the one you're flogging trying to get out of paying the fine

 

[Tonks]

I had something similar happen with Sainsburys, so I took my shopping receipt and parking fine letter (can’t remember the name of the car park management company) to the customer service desk in the store, and explained that I had shopped and eaten in their cafe. They took the details from the parking company letter, said they would get it cancelled and I didn’t hear anything else about it.

Apparently, as it’s free to park, the store had problems with people parking all day whilst catching buses into town for work, and with drivers of large vehicles parking up to sleep as they are near to an M1 junction. Its those people the fines were meant to deter.

The situation in the first paragraph happened to a family member parking in a Lidl carpark. They also took their receipt into the store and the charge was cancelled.

In terms of the second paragraph, my local Sainsbury's has introduced parking restrictions and a 3hr parking limit, and that was also because the Megabus to various places stops alongside the shop as well as buses to Oxford and people were parking in the Sainsbury's car park all day and taking the 'p'.

 

[denisejoe]

I had a friend who went shopping in a diy store bought his stuff but it took him over an hour to leave the car park as the store is built on an estate on a very busy access road and the queue was about 150 yards long when he got the ticket he appealed to the store and they said they already had 40 or so people in that morning and got the ticket cancelled the up the time in the car park to 4hrs after that

 

[Brains]

Is this serious ?

Yes.
Done it several times, when I believe I have a leg to stand on.

The idea is to be the single biggest pain in the arse the company is dealing with.
You need to be nastier, and even more evil than they are.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

We managed to pick up a parking violation in a Sainsbury’s car park in cramlington last week. It seems that particular car park is privately managed by excel parking and their Ts and cs prohibit motorhomes and caravans from parking or anyone not parking within the marked lines.
Our Moho is 8.5m long so that poses us a problem.
Firstly I would like to notify members that they should be aware of the potential issue when using privately managed supermarket car parks and secondly has anyone successfully appealed such a violation and if so what arguments did they use please.

I would contact Sainsbury directly and explain that your motorhomecis your only means of transport, you visited the store bought x amount of goods ,parked in a remote place in the car park so as not to impact others. Did your shopping and moved on.
Maybe the ban on motorhomes and caravans is to stop overnighting.

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[Folkranger]

With the OP name being Delboy he should have put a "doctor on call" note on his window.

 

[pappajohn]

We have a parking system at Aldi in Scarborough.
After leaving checkout you have to enter your reg number on a screen at the packing bench.
That's fine for those who know but visitors to the town may not have seen this system before and just leave.
There are signs requesting this, even at the tills.
Sainsbury have a free 3 hour slot but there are signs in the carpark giving a phone number to call if you need longer .....and pay for extra time.
Why anyone would need more than 3 hours is beyond me but I guess it's to stop local business employees parking all day

 

[Odd-no-more]

We have a parking system at Aldi in Scarborough.
After leaving checkout you have to enter your reg number on a screen at the packing bench.
That's fine for those who know but visitors to the town may not have seen this system before and just leave.
There are signs requesting this, even at the tills.
Sainsbury have a free 3 hour slot but there are signs in the carpark giving a phone number to call if you need longer .....and pay for extra time.
Why anyone would need more than 3 hours is beyond me but I guess it's to stop local business employees parking all day

Thanks I'm going to be on Scarborough later this year so I will remember that.

 

[iandsm]

I called at sainsbury in Devizes and they refund your parking ticket with your reciept but do remember the time was quite short
I after reading the sign moved my van so the bike overhung a dead end paved corner space
Ignore by all means but are you willing to pay up if it goes to court and you loose. Many of these firms now issuse automatically and win because the defendant dies not turn up

Course he can’t turn up if he “dies”

 

[Whitebirdyman]

Horizon Parking (www.horizonspaces.co.uk) allow booking of spaces and include a lot of Sainsburys in the options. For example, my local Sainsburys would cost £2.15 to park from 7pm to 5pm the next day and a vehicle "up to the size of a large van" is allowed.

Tesco, which is about the same distance away for me would be £4 for the same period and is restricted to the size of a large 4x4. Tesco actually have the bigger car park and the spaces in each are the same size.

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[gus-lopez]

Is this Parking Eye ??

If you are going to contest the ticket here are some 'rules'

Under no circumstances are you to communicate via phone with them.
They will get your land line number and they will call and make threats.
They must never actually talk to 'you' on the phone, be the cleaner, be the lodger in your house, never be 'you'.
They may well obtain your mobile number. same rules apply, if you get a call from a number you do not recognise and they ask if it's you, say no, wrong number.

Under no circumstances do you have an email address.
You do not have access to the internet.

The ONLY way you communicate with them is via letter.
Companies are no longer geared up to deal with letters, they don't have post rooms and processes any more.
Which means that it costs them several pounds to deal with a letter.

To increase their letter process costs:
Envelopes are to be hand written, addresses as 'personal' for the MD only (get the name from companies house)
All letters are to the MD directly.
It means the most expensive person in the entire company is wasting their valuable time and the time of their secretary in dealing with your issue.
It means that as a minimum you are using up the time of at least 4 people for each and every letter.

Do not have your return address on it (It means they have to pay the DVLA to get your address)

Never answer all the questions on one go, do this over multiple letters, send as far apart in time as possible.

If you have several reason as to why you should not pay (signage, times, size of vehicle, etc) do not list all the reasons in one letter, do it over time, each letter containing a different reason

Also refer to previous letters, but never give details of letters, means someone has to search through to find them.

Never give your full name if they have called you "A B Smith' then that is what you call yourself, in fact maybe slightly misspell your own surname.

If you are forced to make a payment, do so by cheque, and if you can make it a penny short it mucks up their accounts system

Always leave any reply until the last possible day of reply, but date your letter a few days before.

Also add a clause on the bottom of every letter to say that your time is charge at £60 ph or part thereof

Put "E&OE" discreetly on the top or bottom of every letter

If you can, print the letters on blue paper, it means they can not be scanned, which means they have to rely on paper filing, which is also something modern companies are no longer able to do.

Keep copies of every letter

Be prepared for this to drag on for months

Be totally prepared to take it to court.

The idea is that even if they do win in the end, the cost to them will be greater than the money they receive.
A "Pyric Victory"

This^^^^ plus I also issue a "cease and desist" notice.you can find a template letter on Which parking forum.

Is this serious ?

I always do it.

It’s the one attitude that would annoy me and want to take it all the way to make an example of the person. Take the proverbial and reap the anger.

Sometimes it’s not good to annoy people.

See my earlier post. My son challenged and in better circumstances and he lost. Cost him a lot of money. Judge had sympathy but ruled on law.

I also do the same but at 200/hour or part hour .& years ago +vat .
You can only be fined if you agree to the contract. If you fail to read any notice you have no idea what they are. Also issue a small claims summons for expenses if yhey contact after the cease and desist letter.

 

[enark]

Totally ignore them, they have no authority however threatening their letters may be, they may sell the “debt“ in time and some other organisation will chase you with the same meaningless letters.

I used to look on mine as a bonus, as the letters they sent were good for lighting my wood burner…

 

[Bessy765]

If it were not too much trouble how about we make a list of motorhomes that like us call with the van on the way to wherever our travels may take us and point out as on our last long trip we spent over £300 on stocking up it’s customers that may well go to another brand of supermarket if this is what we have to endure.??

 

[Googlebot]

Totally ignore them, they have no authority however threatening their letters may be, they may sell the “debt“ in time and some other organisation will chase you with the same meaningless letters.

I used to look on mine as a bonus, as the letters they sent were good for lighting my wood burner…

Sorry, but this isn’t true.

They can and do issue proceedings that end up with County Court judgements that are enforceable by law.

You won’t be able to afford the fuel for the log burner if you ignore them and they issue proceedings.

 

[seasideBill]

Assuming it’s not a fixed penalty notice or Council issued notice and the car park is part of the British Parking Association (BPA) or the Approved Operator Scheme (AOS), there is a free appeals process via POPLA. However, if you lose you still risk the consequences. Reviews on Trustpilot for POPLA aren’t positive so maybe a waste of time?

How to Appeal | POPLA

Information on making an appeal.

www.popla.co.uk

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[GJH]

Apparently, as it’s free to park, the store had problems with people parking all day whilst catching buses into town for work, and with drivers of large vehicles parking up to sleep as they are near to an M1 junction. Its those people the fines were meant to deter.

In terms of the second paragraph, my local Sainsbury's has introduced parking restrictions and a 3hr parking limit, and that was also because the Megabus to various places stops alongside the shop as well as buses to Oxford and people were parking in the Sainsbury's car park all day and taking the 'p'.

These are common reasons for restrictions being put in place. Selfish people take places which the store provides for customer use and the business (and customers unable to park) suffers.

 

[seasideBill]

Totally ignore them, they have no authority however threatening their letters may be, they may sell the “debt“ in time and some other organisation will chase you with the same meaningless letters.

I used to look on mine as a bonus, as the letters they sent were good for lighting my wood burner…

They do have ‘authority’ in the same respect as you do. They can expect the law to support them if someone is genuinely in breach.

 

[Brains]

Has anyone tried the Godfather method? You'd have to find a dead horse somewhere, maybe the one you're flogging trying to get out of paying the fine

No,
But have an acquaintance, who many years ago was owed money for a job and despite a court order was never paid.

When the debtor went on holiday, he arrange for a pair of roofers to remove all the tiles from the back of his roof. The tiles were neatly stacked on the roof, so nothing was taken, there was no entry.

I don't know the cost of having to replace half a roof at short notice, even if you have the tiles, but the comma would come after the second number.

 

[Delboyarapaho]

well many thanks to those who responded for your thoughts. I have appealed the PCN. I don't expect to get anywhere with it but for information attached is what i have said. Fingers crossed

 

[Nanniemate]

well many thanks to those who responded for your thoughts. I have appealed the PCN. I don't expect to get anywhere with it but for information attached is what i have said. Fingers crossed

Are you part of the 'traveller community' or just a summer gypsy?

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[Odd-no-more]

well many thanks to those who responded for your thoughts. I have appealed the PCN. I don't expect to get anywhere with it but for information attached is what i have said. Fingers crossed

I would expect the request to be denied so be prepared to go to the appeal procedure. I would also contact Sainsbury's and make the same argument with them, point out that you are a customer, hopefully you have your receipt or card payment statement. I also suggest you get some pictures ot the signage to show how clear, or not, it is.
Good luck.

 

[Odd-no-more]

Are you part of the 'traveller community' or just a summer gypsy?

I believe it may be discriminatory to ask that question

 

[Kayak Kid]

With the OP name being Delboy he should have put a "doctor on call" note on his window.

Read another idea that involves typing out your own notice to stick on your windscreen saying that if anyone places any notice or item on the vehicle that they are entering into a contract to pay £100 for the privilege!

 

[GAVLAD]

I once picked up a fine after parking in Aldi.
I phoned Aldi and complained as I had done a shop in there. I was told they’d outsourced the car park. So I phoned the parking eye company and explained I had got a ticket but had spent a fair amount in shopping in the store and was unhappy about receiving a ticket. They cancelled the fine and said they only do it to avoid all day parking. So ud try the store first and then the parking company.

 

[enark]

Sorry, but this isn’t true.

They can and do issue proceedings that end up with County Court judgements that are enforceable by law.

You won’t be able to afford the fuel for the log burner if you ignore them and they issue proceedings.

Well I have for years and they haven’t bothered yet…

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