Parking for beginners

[Gary217]

Hi - although we've had a camper for a few years and travelled a lot in it so we are fairly experienced on many aspects , we've not had a 'grown-up' one before as our previous van was VWT5 which was about the size of a large car and went under most car park barriers...just. We now have our Transit LWB Hi top (picked up last Friday) so I thought I'd put my naive questions in this beginners section.
My first question is parking. We tried to choose a van that was not too large but look like we failed miserably on that score - although it is only just a metre longer than the VW it is too big for most car park slots and on our first trip out we found it difficult to park at the coast and only one car park was without a height barrier, but then spaces were incredibly tight so we didn't end stopping there. Trips into Beaulieu Village and then Christchurch proved the same, and we ended up stopping on the way back in a New Forest car park for our celebration (of new van) lunch ...feeling quite despondent.
So, we see a lot of motorhomes that are bigger than ours trundling around, so where and how do you park in the UK - especially in nice spots?

 

[GJH]

I wasn't in a motorhome. I was in my car. There was abolutely NOTHING to indicate the ownership of the car park. It was adjacent to the Bowl.
If it was owned privately there would have been no sanction possible for the owner to have taken because there were no notices whatsoever to indicate any sanction that could have been taken.
All of the above has been pointed out to the Council and I await their excuses.
I would have parked in the Pay and Display in Quay Road but, after finding that two of the machines were out of use (photo taken) and being told by a local that the Council expect the motorist to find a machine that works, (yea right) and, notwithstanding that, they will still ticket you, I found the former Coach Park.

Furthermore, for the Council to 'Get Me' they have to show adequate signage. How they're going to do that with no signage is beyond me.

The large bay area is part of Quay Road pay & display car park. As to signage, don't the machines (working or not) have signs? Many councils have signs which simply say something along the lines of "Park in accordance with the current order" and that is perfectly legal. They may have got you I'm afraid.

 

[Emmit]

The large bay area is part of Quay Road pay & display car park. As to signage, don't the machines (working or not) have signs? Many councils have signs which simply say something along the lines of "Park in accordance with the current order" and that is perfectly legal. They may have got you I'm afraid.

How can it be part of the Quay Road P & D Car park when it is completely separate from that car park. A driver cannot drive from one to the other without mounting kerbs and driving over pedestrian areas. The only way to go from one to another is to drive on the public road. That makes them separate as far as I'm concerned. It's a case of the Council starting to change something by removing signs and not putting up fresh signs.
Having never been to the place before, and looking at it with fresh eyes, so to speak, I actually thought it was the Bowling Alley car park.

 

[namwaldog]

Regarding dogs on buses, we were at Ingleton (Stacksteads CL) for the weekend gone and caught the bus into Skipton for the day. There were several passengers getting on & off the bus with dogs without problem.

Conversely we were in La Palma, Canary Isles a couple of weeks ago and whilst waiting for a bus, along comes one of the islands hippies with two Border Terrier size dogs and with what looked like a plastic coracle on his back rucksack style. Along comes the bus and the gent, whips off the 'coracle' which turns out to be a sectional pet carrier in what looked like top & bottom sections. Quickly clipped the sections together, put the dogs inside and carried them onto the bus. Never seen that before. He was away on the bus before I could get a photograph.

 

[Jac Sprat]

Thanks
No our dog is definitely a medium - large part pointer so no rucsac type arrangement for hin.
I hadn't quite realised how hard it would be to park in towns. I would hate to miss out on seeing towns because of our pooch. Any stories from owners of bigger dogs as to how you get into towns and cities?

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[GJH]

How can it be part of the Quay Road P & D Car park when it is completely separate from that car park. A driver cannot drive from one to the other without mounting kerbs and driving over pedestrian areas. The only way to go from one to another is to drive on the public road. That makes them separate as far as I'm concerned. It's a case of the Council starting to change something by removing signs and not putting up fresh signs.
Having never been to the place before, and looking at it with fresh eyes, so to speak, I actually thought it was the Bowling Alley car park.

It is part of Quay Road P&D because Isle of Wight Council deem it so and will no doubt be shown as such in the schedules to the parking order (which is what matters).

 

[Eeyore]

Do you cycle ? We have seen lots of dog trailers with dogs of all sizes usually looking completely relaxed about the whole thing, not to say smug. We've seen a variety of different makes including a pop-up Dutch ( ? ) one that folds to look like a shopping trolly and fits between the two bikes on a bike rack.

 

[Zilevets]

We've taken our dog on buses around the uk when we've been away in the mh some charge for the dog others don't, being a large springer he's too big to put in a ruck sack so he just sits on the floor!

We have taken our dog in a taxi in Whitby and didn't have a problem.

Liz

 

[Emmit]

It is part of Quay Road P&D because Isle of Wight Council deem it so and will no doubt be shown as such in the schedules to the parking order (which is what matters).

Looks like the Independent Adjudicator will have to decide then.
However, can I respectfully point out that unless a car park is adequately signed the Council cannot insist that punters carry an Ouija Board to work out who has authority over what.

 

[GJH]

Looks like the Independent Adjudicator will have to decide then.
However, can I respectfully point out that unless a car park is adequately signed the Council cannot insist that punters carry an Ouija Board to work out who has authority over what.

Can I also respectfully point out that it is the parking order that matters, not any signage

The legislation which applies to signage of on-street parking areas simply does not apply (or even exist) for off street car parks. In most cases there simply isn't space on signs (quite apart from the expense of doing so) to list all the provisions of parking orders so all councils have to do is to make those orders available for enquiry during office hours. Some publish the orders on their web site and/or at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal web site but others do neither. As I mentioned, some councils just erect signs which say something like "vehicles must be parked in accordance with the current parking order" and that is all they have to do.

Whether we like it or not, the onus is on us all to check before parking in off street car parks if we don't want to risk a penalty. The only safe option is to park elsewhere unless one can positively ensure that parking where we want to is allowed.

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[Emmit]

Graham,
I'm not going to turn this into a running log, but your comment above;
"As I mentioned, some councils just erect signs which say something like "vehicles must be parked in accordance with the current parking order" and that is all they have to do."

This Council did nothing. There was the car park, formed of a different surface to the road, There was No signage of any kind to indicate it's ownership,.It was totally separate from any other car park. They didn't, as they do all over the island put up signs on posts which were available at the scene to indicate, 'Machine This Way', "Pay Here (or There) There was no markings on the road to create parking spaces as this Authority does for every other of it's pay and display parking whether on road or off road.

If there had been just ONE sign, in any form to indicate the Official status of this space then I wouldn't have parked there but I sure as hell ain't paying them £25 because someone says, without any indication of any description, "Thats our Car Park". I wouldn't do it under the same circs on private land. I'm not doing it now.
My challenge is winging it's way to them and if they reject it, I'll go to the tribunal.

Sorry, I forgot to add, on my travels on the island I came across a fully paid up, "Pay and Display" Car Park. Leaning against the ticket machine was one of those bright yellow signs measuring about 4' x3' stating"Pay and Dispay Car Park in Operation" If they could do that for a proper P and D why didn't they do it for one that had no signage at all. Needless to say, I've got a photo of that.

 

[Jac Sprat]

No my partner has Parkinson's and doesn't dare take a bike.
We were thinking of getting a tandem for his safety so I wonder if we could pull a dog trailer behind that!

 

[GJH]

Graham,
I'm not going to turn this into a running log, but your comment above;
"As I mentioned, some councils just erect signs which say something like "vehicles must be parked in accordance with the current parking order" and that is all they have to do."

This Council said nothing. There was the car park, formed of a different surface to the road, There was No signage of any kind to indicate it's ownership,.It was totally separate from any other car park. They didn't, as they do all over the island put up signs on posts which were available at the scene to indicate, 'Machine This Way', "Pay Here (or There) There was no markings on the road to create parking spaces as this Authority does for every other of it's pay and display parking whether on road or off road.

If there had been just ONE sign, in any form to indicate the Official status of this space then I wouldn't have parked there but I sure as hell ain't paying them £25 because someone says, without any indication of any description, "Thats our Car Park". I wouldn't do it under the same circs on private land. I'm not doing it now.
My challenge is winging it's way to them and if they reject it, I'll go to the tribunal.

As I mentioned previously, the signage on/next to the ticket machines would suffice so the council did say something.

What the text of your post says, in effect, is that there was no sign saying you could park where you did (which was off street so obviously owned by somebody) but you parked there anyway. Sorry but I think they've got you.

 

[Jac Sprat]

Haha this makes for disjointed reading!

 

[Eeyore]

No my partner has Parkinson's and doesn't dare take a bike.
We were thinking of getting a tandem for his safety so I wonder if we could pull a dog trailer behind that!

You'd be in good company!

See:

http://www.parisenimages.fr/en/coll...andem-pulling-a-small-trailer-transport-a-dog

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[Jac Sprat]

Haha well spotted!

 

[peterc10]

As I mentioned previously, the signage on/next to the ticket machines would suffice so the council did say something.

What the text of your post says, in effect, is that there was no sign saying you could park where you did (which was off street so obviously owned by somebody) but you parked there anyway. Sorry but I think they've got you.

Graham - I think it is pretty clear that there were no machines in this separate car park and no signs from what I have read of the post.

In any event I suspect that the independent adjudicator will overturn this. They often do when there is no or inadequate signs and they usually think that is is not reasonable for people to be mind readers when parking. Remember this is not a case of it being a motorhome; this is car we are dealing with here, and, apparently, no signs whatsoever.

 

[GJH]

Graham - I think it is pretty clear that there were no machines in this separate car park and no signs from what I have read of the post.

In any event I suspect that the independent adjudicator will overturn this. They often do when there is no or inadequate signs and they usually think that is is not reasonable for people to be mind readers when parking. Remember this is not a case of it being a motorhome; this is car we are dealing with here, and, apparently, no signs whatsoever.

There are no signs on my drive either. That doesn't mean that it is OK for people to park there though, does it?
Anyway, it isn't a case of no signs whatsoever though is it? There are signs on the P&D machines (two of which, apparently, were not working).

As posted earlier, it isn't a separate car park. It is an area of the car park which was formerly reserved for coaches but where the rules have been relaxed so that motorhomes can also use those spaces. In any case, a P&D ticket would still be needed and as the machines were not working one has to assume that the car was parked without payment.

Wherever we wish to park, the onus is on us to make sure we are allowed to park there.

 

[peterc10]

There are no signs on my drive either. That doesn't mean that it is OK for people to park there though, does it?
.

No of course it is not. But that does not give you the right to fine me an arbitrary amount. All you can do is pursue me for the tort of trespass in civil law. So not really a good analogy.

Anyway, it isn't a case of no signs whatsoever though is it? There are signs on the P&D machines (two of which, apparently, were not working). As posted earlier, it isn't a separate car park.

It has a separate entrance and there is no way traffic can move between the two. The law, and especially the independent adjudicator, will look at it from a practical point of view. "Its the same car park because we say it is even though it is separate" probably won't wash with the adjudicator. And remember the latest operational guidance on this issue to local authorities from the DfT makes it clear that signing should be "clear and conspicuous". And it also says that an "inadequately signed order may be unenforceable and can significantly damage both the aims of enforcement and the public perception of its management."

Under general principles of public law, authorities have a duty to act fairly and proportionately. They can't just act capriciously as appears to have happened here. If the information provided by @emmitdb is correct I suspect the independent adjudicator will throw it out, assuming that the council is silly enough to let it get that far.

It will be interesting to see what happens with this one and I hope @emmitdb keeps us informed.

 

[GJH]

It has a separate entrance and there is no way traffic can move between the two.

Google Maps shows one entrance from The Esplanade. The fact that the entrance road then splits between the large vehicle area and main car area does not make it a separate entrance.

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[Carol]

Thanks for all your replies about New Forest parking.
Daniel, what's a Twizzy?

Me in a Twizzy, lots of fun it was too driving it.

 

[Riverbankannie]

Just wanted to add my thanks to Graham for his website and for putting in the time to post helpful replies here. I have found it is invaluable to have a smartphone with data contract for uk travel and parking. Found easy parking in centre of Hay on Wye and Hereford by following links on Graham's website. Have recently up sized from VWT4 to 6.3m Fiat so being cautious and planning upfront by just stopping in a layby and doing a little research lessens the stress.

 

[Gary217]

Just wanted to add my thanks to Graham for his website and for putting in the time to post helpful replies here. I have found it is invaluable to have a smartphone with data contract for uk travel and parking. Found easy parking in centre of Hay on Wye and Hereford by following links on Graham's website. Have recently up sized from VWT4 to 6.3m Fiat so being cautious and planning upfront by just stopping in a layby and doing a little research lessens the stress.

Us too!! We used Graham's site and are so appreciative; it helped us in Cambridge, Beccles, Colchester - Cambridge especially where it appears there is only one very difficult to find park and ride where m'homes can safely park, the directions were spot on even though it was an 8 mile extra journey for us via the M11 to it! I don't know if Graham looks on here, but if so thanks for all your work and efforts!! I will drop an appreciative note to his email directly as well.

Also, I think so thanks should go to the councils who have shown where their places to park m'homes are - they get a bad press by sometimes treating us as the great 'unwanted', but where they have bothered to be helpful by linking into Graham's site with useful info thanks are due to them in my opinion.

 

[Bailey58]

Us too!! We used Graham's site and are so appreciative; it helped us in Cambridge, Beccles, Colchester - Cambridge especially where it appears there is only one very difficult to find park and ride where m'homes can safely park, the directions were spot on even though it was an 8 mile extra journey for us via the M11 to it! I don't know if Graham looks on here, but if so thanks for all your work and efforts!! I will drop an appreciative note to his email directly as well.

Also, I think so thanks should go to the councils who have shown where their places to park m'homes are - they get a bad press by sometimes treating us as the great 'unwanted', but where they have bothered to be helpful by linking into Graham's site with useful info thanks are due to them in my opinion.

Graham does indeed look on here, as GJH he's been contributing to this thread all along.

 

[Gary217]

In which case GJH....big thanks from us for all your work! Really appreciated.

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[roadster55]

Hi - although we've had a camper for a few years and travelled a lot in it so we are fairly experienced on many aspects , we've not had a 'grown-up' one before as our previous van was VWT5 which was about the size of a large car and went under most car park barriers...just. We now have our Transit LWB Hi top (picked up last Friday) so I thought I'd put my naive questions in this beginners section.
My first question is parking. We tried to choose a van that was not too large but look like we failed miserably on that score - although it is only just a metre longer than the VW it is too big for most car park slots and on our first trip out we found it difficult to park at the coast and only one car park was without a height barrier, but then spaces were incredibly tight so we didn't end stopping there. Trips into Beaulieu Village and then Christchurch proved the same, and we ended up stopping on the way back in a New Forest car park for our celebration (of new van) lunch ...feeling quite despondent.
So, we see a lot of motorhomes that are bigger than ours trundling around, so where and how do you park in the UK - especially in nice spots?

Having read this, and owning a campervan based on a Ford Transit, I'm delighted to read that I haven't yet grown up! That's the best news I've had all week TBH; I feel younger already - think I might nip across the park for a bit of skateboarding followed by gatecrashing someone's party and making funny signs with my fingers and thumbs, cool....

 

[GJH]

Having read this, and owning a campervan based on a Ford Transit, I'm delighted to read that I haven't yet grown up! That's the best news I've had all week TBH; I feel younger already - think I might nip across the park for a bit of skateboarding followed by gatecrashing someone's party and making funny signs with my fingers and thumbs, cool....

Grownup? Grown up? Read a few more posts and you'll see that the vast majority of us haven't grown up

 

[roadster55]

Grownup? Grown up? Read a few more posts and you'll see that the vast majority of us haven't grown up

You're right I do feel younger when visiting here - I think your enthusiasm is infectious! Guess this is what they mean by a second childhood......