Parking eye rules regulation

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dabhand said:
tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk

Herefordshire - Traffic Regulation Orders

Here you can browse the Traffic Regulation Orders (TRO) and any additional documents registered by Herefordshire.
tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk
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Who would have thought it was illegal to eat a sandwich in a council car park.

But the OP concerns a private car park and as the sign is not unambiguous I still think they would not win in court. They send out hundreds of parking invoices and follow them with threatening letters and more threatening letters but will only go to court if they are sure they will win. Most people are too scared to go to court and don't want the hassle so pay up even if they shouldn't.

In my daughter's case she was parked in the correct place but for some reason she was given a "ticket" in spite of all the evidence the letters kept coming, with more and more threats. The letters only stopped when I told them to go to court. They rely on bullying people into submission.

That said parking does need to be regulated, bit it should be done in a more straightforward way.
 
Minxy Girl said:
Care to point us to one which covers the issue being discussed?
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One of the regulations in the document states eating, cooking, and sleeping is not permitted. This is in regard to council car parks no one controlled by Parking Eye.

I would like to see them charge someone with eating a sandwich :D

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I thought that it’s a Council Car Park on private land, if there is such a thing, but as the Car Park is not specifically mentioned, I looked at the location number on parking eye, couldn’t find it there either, my considered opinion therefore:unsure: is they would not proceed to court if you stayed overnight, which
I have done on many occasions in other (parking eye) locations, my considered opinion of course is often bollox!:)
 
The Ex-Gasman said:
One of the regulations in the document states eating, cooking, and sleeping is not permitted. This is in regard to council car parks no one controlled by Parking Eye.
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Yes but where is the regulation? Surely you're not suggesting that we download and read all of them to find it????!!?!?!!??!!
 
I hope they had the correct signage at every car park and street mentioned ;)

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romany said:
Lets be clear as people have said signage has to be clear and unambiguous so sleeping in your van is camping if the signage does not state that sleeping in you car?van?camper is Illegal or breaking a councils bylaw I would still contest it in court, Once it has been decided in a court of law a precedent is then set and all other ruling will tend to follow that precedent.
As has also been stated on here people normally cannot be hassled to confront these parking companies so sometimes they don't bother to get their signage right.

the above statement that if you sleep in your van your camping is open to attack because if that is the case , every sales man every lorry driver or motorist who sleeps or takes a few hours nap is camping or obeying all the wonderful signage telling you tiredness kills pull over and take a nap.

I am not arguing whether my view is right or wrong I am saying what I would do and hopefully as in the past my legal representatives would be good enough to say yes lets test it or no there has already been a previous ruling and you would get your fingers burnt.
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gus-lopez said:
If it does not apply to all other vehicles also it is discrimination and I also have no problem taking legal action over it either.
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The Ex-Gasman said:
I'm not aware of this law, or definition, can you point me in the right direction please?
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Apart from ignorance of the law being no defence, as I said two days ago now we have discussed this many times. Searching the forum wouldn't have taken much effort. As it apparently is, though, see http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/ whilst you still can.
 
Anything to stop you sleeping in any ordinary street.?
Done so a few times ( Scotland and Island), no hassle at all. And actually probably more safe as houses around to hear the horn blaring if any real trouble. Car parks more isolated.
 
GJH said:
Apart from ignorance of the law being no defence, as I said two days ago now we have discussed this many times. Searching the forum wouldn't have taken much effort. As it apparently is, though, see http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/ whilst you still can.
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This seems to be advice, not law, and in this case the OP was concerned about an invoice from Parking Eye, in my opinion the sign does not form an unambiguous instruction, and therefore would be very difficult for them to win in the small claims court.

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duplicate post
 
gus-lopez said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4835050/Parking-firm-took-lawyer-85-fine-lost.html
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Bowen won on lack of signage, in this case there was a perfectly adequate sign.
The Ex-Gasman said:
This seems to be advice, not law, and in this case the OP was concerned about an invoice from Parking Eye, in my opinion the sign does not form an unambiguous instruction, and therefore would be very difficult for them to win in the small claims court.
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Of course it is advice. Only the court can make the final decision. It is, though, advice based on years of research, including working with Natural England and lawyers at DeFRA who implement the 1960 Act.
Of course that all counts for nothing doesn't it? Any wonder I am sick and tired of trying to do something constructive to help motorhomers any more?
 
GJH

Morning Graham

I am disappointed that you see this thread so negatively, this particular car park is a prime tourist spot and the possibility of revenue for allowing use by Motorhome as a stop over location would produce revenue, they already gave signs and allocated bays, the car park is open 24/7 and was virtually empty when we pulled in at 09.00
IMO the sign is ambiguous, with the exception of tents and caravans which are clearly shown, had the sign said no sleeping then it would be clear.

I have tried to find a definition of camping on the parking eye web site and they do not define it there as far as I can see

I haven’t had a reply to my email to Parking Eye which is disappointing but not unexpected

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Graham you have run a very helpful site for a number of years which I have used in the past and would not in anyway criticise but I do take exception to what seems to be any one who thinks sleeping in a van is not camping is a fool for not believing authorities or parking companies who say its illegal and who have a vested interest and lets face it we have recently realised just how much these people lie to us knowing they wont be challenged.

I repeat if I was in a situation where there was a charge for overnight parking and I slept in my PVC and the company tried to fine me I would go to court and challenge it on so many areas her are just a few

government advice is dont drive tired pull over and take a knap

its an unfair contract and prejudicial against camper vans (lorries allowed to sleep in cab)

have a true definition of camping as using it for habitation would mean cooking eating reading watching tv is what I would call using it for habitation sleeping for up to 10 hours then moving on is not camping in my view.

a vehicle that is in a parking space it has paid for is no different to a vehicle space or harm wise with someone sleeping in it.

Now I fully except I may be wrong but I for one would like to see a really robust challenge to these parking authorities just to make everything 1 fair for everyone and 2 have a legal defined ruling of why a camper who has paid for a slot in most times an empty car park is doing any harm or breaking any laws

Or failing that send a freedom of information act request to these parking companies on what were the basis of their CJJ ie was it a debt CJJ rather than a wrongful parking CJJ how many were challenged and how many were set aside and why. After all it comes under the freedom of information acts criteria as being in the public interest
 
DavidG58 said:
GJH

Morning Graham

I am disappointed that you see this thread so negatively, this particular car park is a prime tourist spot and the possibility of revenue for allowing use by Motorhome as a stop over location would produce revenue, they already gave signs and allocated bays, the car park is open 24/7 and was virtually empty when we pulled in at 09.00
IMO the sign is ambiguous, with the exception of tents and caravans which are clearly shown, had the sign said no sleeping then it would be clear.

I have tried to find a definition of camping on the parking eye web site and they do not define it there as far as I can see

I haven’t had a reply to my email to Parking Eye which is disappointing but not unexpected
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Sorry but how many times does it have to be repeated?

For a car park to be used as "a stop over location" would require a caravan site licence issued in accordance with the 1960 Act. It would also require the car park to have planing consent for camping as well as for parking. Most car park owners, especially private companies, are not interested in that business.

Parking Eye, nor any other car park owner/manager, needs give a definition of camping because it is already covered by the law of the land.
 
romany said:
Graham you have run a very helpful site for a number of years which I have used in the past and would not in anyway criticise but I do take exception to what seems to be any one who thinks sleeping in a van is not camping is a fool for not believing authorities or parking companies who say its illegal and who have a vested interest and lets face it we have recently realised just how much these people lie to us knowing they wont be challenged.

I repeat if I was in a situation where there was a charge for overnight parking and I slept in my PVC and the company tried to fine me I would go to court and challenge it on so many areas her are just a few

government advice is dont drive tired pull over and take a knap

its an unfair contract and prejudicial against camper vans (lorries allowed to sleep in cab)

have a true definition of camping as using it for habitation would mean cooking eating reading watching tv is what I would call using it for habitation sleeping for up to 10 hours then moving on is not camping in my view.

a vehicle that is in a parking space it has paid for is no different to a vehicle space or harm wise with someone sleeping in it.

Now I fully except I may be wrong but I for one would like to see a really robust challenge to these parking authorities just to make everything 1 fair for everyone and 2 have a legal defined ruling of why a camper who has paid for a slot in most times an empty car park is doing any harm or breaking any laws

Or failing that send a freedom of information act request to these parking companies on what were the basis of their CJJ ie was it a debt CJJ rather than a wrongful parking CJJ how many were challenged and how many were set aside and why. After all it comes under the freedom of information acts criteria as being in the public interest
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I am afraid you really should check the facts before posting. Sleeping is a form of habitation as far as the law of the land is concerned.
It simply doesn't matter what you (or I, or anyone else) would like the definition of habitation to be.

You also need to do some learning about the Freedom of Information Act if you think it doesn't applies to private companies such as Parking Eye or the owner of the private car park concerned.
 
Would sitting in the rear of the "parked" vehicle reading a book constitute an infringment ?
 
tacr2man said:
Would sitting in the rear of the "parked" vehicle reading a book constitute an infringment ?
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Just make sure you have a UK map/road atlast that is larger than the 'magazine' you're reading at the time so you can 'hide' it! :D

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If I parked my moho fully within the marked bay ,and got out dressed like this would I be guilty of camping
rupaul-met-gala-2019-best-dressed-camp.jpg
 
well I have had an answer, but it has really only added to confusion and ambiguity

PE_Info <Info@parkingeye.co.uk>
Fri 30/08/2019 12:41
    • You


Good Afternoon,

Thank you for your recent correspondence.

We can confirm that motor homes are not permitted to park overnight.

Kind Regards,

The ParkingEye team
Broken Link Removed

e: info@parkingeye.co.uk | w: parkingeye.co.uk

ParkingEye Limited | 40 Eaton Avenue | Matrix Park | Buckshaw Village | Chorley | PR7 7NA
Registered in England and Wales – No 5134454



Actually now saying I can't even park overnight, let alone sleep in it, I really can't see them enforcing the no parking element with the signage on site, clearly a very big can of worms, of varying sizes :unsure:
 
GJH said:
Sorry but how many times does it have to be repeated?

For a car park to be used as "a stop over location" would require a caravan site licence issued in accordance with the 1960 Act. It would also require the car park to have planing consent for camping as well as for parking. Most car park owners, especially private companies, are not interested in that business.

Parking Eye, nor any other car park owner/manager, needs give a definition of camping because it is already covered by the law of the land.
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But, as I understand that law, only the owner of the land is breaking the law, by allowing the camping to take place. And even is thay not the case, such a law can only be enforced by bringing a criminal prosecution in a criminal court.

But, again as I understand it, Parking Eye's claim against the parker is based solely on the terms of the contract they say comes into force when parking; they are not invoking or relying upon any criminal law, which is why such cases are always dealt with in the small claims court rather than the magistrates courts, which would be the case if this was a criminal prosecution.

Therefore I cannot see how that law would be relevant to the contract. Parking Eye clearly say that the contract is based only upon the conditions shown on the notices, and, in any event, I doubt that they could ever have the authority to prosecute a criminal action with regards to camping. The civil law is clear that such contract can be made by performance, i.e. by the person parking in the place. But that same law will rarely allow any other onerous conditions to be imposed that are not on the notice. And that is even more so when any such condition is to the detriment of a consumer.
 
GJH said:
I am afraid you really should check the facts before posting. Sleeping is a form of habitation as far as the law of the land is concerned.
It simply doesn't matter what you (or I, or anyone else) would like the definition of habitation to be.

You also need to do some learning about the Freedom of Information Act if you think it doesn't applies to private companies such as Parking Eye or the owner of the private car park concerned.
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Freedom of information act covers all government departments including any court cases taken on their behalf and any county court judgement that could affect the general public including private cases although you may find other legislation is used as an excuse not to divulge it ie privacy laws

as for as far as the law of the land is concerned that is why I keep saying it needs to be tested in a court of law it is not fit for todays purpose.

as Tac2man has posted eating and drinking while sitting in your car could be considered habitation, the answer to Davids email is discriminatory many people with the modern PVC conversions have them as their sole means of transport.

For me when one law starts to interfere with another or breaks other laws it needs highlighting so in future it can be changed to be clearer one way or the other and become fit for purpose(y)
 
peterc10 said:
But, as I understand that law, only the owner of the land is breaking the law, by allowing the camping to take place. And even is thay not the case, such a law can only be enforced by bringing a criminal prosecution in a criminal court.

But, again as I understand it, Parking Eye's claim against the parker is based solely on the terms of the contract they say comes into force when parking; they are not invoking or relying upon any criminal law, which is why such cases are always dealt with in the small claims court rather than the magistrates courts, which would be the case if this was a criminal prosecution.

Therefore I cannot see how that law would be relevant to the contract. Parking Eye clearly say that the contract is based only upon the conditions shown on the notices, and, in any event, I doubt that they could ever have the authority to prosecute a criminal action with regards to camping. The civil law is clear that such contract can be made by performance, i.e. by the person parking in the place. But that same law will rarely allow any other onerous conditions to be imposed that are not on the notice. And that is even more so when any such condition is to the detriment of a consumer.
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An implied terms of any contract is that it is lawful. If people sleeping in their cars / motorhomes is in breach of planning legislation, and it is, then this is a reasonable implied term - they don't have to spell it out.

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