Opinions on manufacturers

[Baboboy]

Hello everyone

Mrs C and myself are giving serious thoughts to getting a motorhome.

We’ve had and lived on narrowboats so we’re fully aware of living frugally and in confined spaces etc. The van would be used for short breaks with the view to go further afield in the future. A few things have happened which have made us say do it now and not when we retire early as you never know what the future holds.

We’ve spent a few weeks trawling various motorhome sites, and have been out and had a look at a few dealerships as well. We’d we looking for a well built van. Don’t want anything that would slowly fall to pieces.

I was looking for people’s experiences the below.

Adria
Deleths
Sunlight
Rapido
Hobby
Berstner

I’ve read to get a German van due to the quality Mrs C likes a Hobby Van as seen on a YouTube Channel lol.

Main requirements would be has to be an Automatic. Fixed Bed, Garage space and due to my driving licence 3500kg.

I’ll sit back with my popcorn.

Once again a warm welcome from us.

 

[Baboboy]

Don't rule out PVCs based on a Volkswagen Crafter or MAN TGE (which are both the same vehicle with different badges) due to cabin height, I'm about 5' 10" and have no problems.
However I would suggest taking care with the payload as a LWB version can easily exceed 3500kg, ours does.

Is your lack of a C1 license the same as ours was, being over 70 years old? If so we didn't find it too difficult to regain the C1 as it only needed a medical examination except for Mrs R having just had cataract surgery.

Rod

I passed my test when the c1 option was not on the licence when you passed.

I am 46 Mrs C is early 50’s.

I’m getting confused with it all.

 

[Baboboy]

I passed my test when the c1 option was not on the licence when you passed.

I am 46 Mrs C is early 50’s.

I’m getting confused with it all.

I’m struggling to see what the point of a 3500kg if they’re as restrictive as what folk are saying. If it’s not possible to for a weeks holiday and take 2 x bikes for example. Without bent over weight I’m baffled.

Don’t think a. PVC fits with what I’m envisioning as we’re not pub goers etc we just like the idea of having nicely appointed space to relax in.

Could be back to drawing board their goes my £20 subs lol.

 

[Baboboy]

With a German van you really need 600kg of payload over the MIRO. A lot of things you would consider standard are not, they always quote the MIRO on a basic van but you can't even by one like that, they won't sell you one without the basic chassis pack which will add at least 50kg. Then theres all the other bits that eat into payload, 2nd battery, TV, Awning etc.

The configurator adjusted the weight of the payload with extras that were added. So that looked ok. It speciefies that fuel a gas bottle and a driver weight 75 ls is factored in.

 

[Baboboy]

Here is a link to the magazine containing the article on payloads and weights:

MMM magazine - April 2025: Bloomin' Lovely

Buy subscriptions and issues of MMM magazine - April 2025: Bloomin' Lovely. Available on Desktop PC or Mac and iOS or Android mobile devices.

pocketmags.com

That brings up a link to the April Edition containing the article on weight limits etc.

I can also tell you that my 6 metre Hobby T500 was about 3,050 kg fully loaded when I checked on a weighbridge last year (including 2 gas cylinders, near full water tank, diesel and my Ebike)

With what others are saying how is that even possible? Lol.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[starquake]

It's this reason we ended up with a UK van (no C1) with 800kg payload, which is actually achievable, unlike the German marques.

It's manual -> because the automatic options added several 100Kg of weight and put us into C1 category. We got used to driving manuals again, and the payload gained enough is for a full tank of water. The compromise in our case was the gearbox, and we ended up with a smaller kitchen in exchange for a larger seperate shower room.

Remember if you going off grid, you may want 100Kg of water for a few days showers if you doing the free parkups rather than campsites. Going for tiny payloads, and not considering water, or food weight is a crazy thing imho, when loaded for a week away water, alcohol + food adds 200Kg.

May be worth reconsidering manufacturers and adding some UK vans, as some 2017-2022 era UK vans had > 700kg of usable payload in various layouts. We do prefer our friends Rapido than the Bailey we own, and will probably switch to an EU manufcaturer, however we know like our friends had to, we'd need a C1 license for 4000kg to be able to actually use it properly.

When we looked around vans we worked out we'd need to add 2 C1 licenses to the budget if we didn't stick to certain brands who were not economical with the truth on payloads.

 

[Markman]

Whatever you do think about renting a van for a weekend at least.

There's are big differences between a floorplan on a web site, walking through a van at a show and living in one for a couple of nights. Yes, it will be expensive (£500 I'm guessing) but a lot cheaper than buying the "wrong" van, and having to trade it in prematurely for the "right" one.

Have a look at Wildax, we rented one from the factory in Yorkshire for the weekend. Or try the private renting aps (goboony, camplify, etc)

 

[starquake]

The configurator adjusted the weight of the payload with extras that were added. So that looked ok. It speciefies that fuel a gas bottle and a driver weight 75 ls is factored in.

You'll also need 2 gas bottles as they do tend to run out at inopportune times, unless you go refillable. a 6Kg gas bottle is not 6kg of weight, it's about 16Kg in reality when full as the metal containing the gas is heavy. But even so manufacturers weight assumptions on gas are for a single 6kg gas, which is about 1-2 days heavy use in winter.

Water weight is the big mistake people make though... Even just drinking water for 3 days is 10-15kg.

Whatever you do think about renting a van for a weekend at least.

There's are big differences between a floorplan on a web site, walking through a van at a show and living in one for a couple of nights. Yes, it will be expensive (£500 I'm guessing) but a lot cheaper than buying the "wrong" van, and having to trade it in prematurely for the "right" one.

Have a look at Wildax, we rented one from the factory in Yorkshire for the weekend. Or try the private renting aps (goboony, camplify, etc)

100% agree with this, we almost ended up with a fixed bed layout (literally nearly put deposit down), when we ended up with a dual single trivial to make up van in end. We didn't realise until we stayed in one that the bed wasn't long enouhgh in the French bed layouts we were looking at to be comfortable.

rent or look around in detail and check you fit in things like the beds, you may find that you also end up preferring a non-traditional layout after doing do.

We nearly made a very expensive mistake, and it was from not seeing enough vans in person -> thankfully our initial near deposit disaster was averted by a visit to one of the Warners shows (the Peterborough one in it's last year), where we found the layout that best suited. We had to purchase elsewhere as the single unit we liked in the show had been sold well before we got there. It is worth mentioning that motorhomes are not like cars, if you find a layout and manufacturer you want, you may find when not new there is only one or two on sale nationwide, so you may have to travel a long way to buy one if you not buying new.

 

[stevewagner]

You also need to consider the individual axle weight limits

 

[Puddleduck]

Our Chausson had a decent payload and was a 3 berth with fixed rear bed over garage and played at 3500kg.

The Sunliving by Adria we up-plated as we carried electric bikes and rigid kayaks. We could have just managed at 3500kg if we had really tried.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[cyberyacht]

I've got a 6.4M fixed transverse bed A Class that just runs at 3500Kg with full water gas fuel food & 2 lightweight E Bikes. I'm 70Kg & OH 50Kg. I do have lithium batteries(lighter) and Safefill composite gas bottles(lighter). It can be done at 3500KG so long as you stick to 6M or a smidgin above. Forget about MiL though.

 

[Jon Stewart]

Payload will be fine. From our boating days we’re good at only using and taking what’s needed.

I admire your optimism.

'What is needed' is the variable.

 

[jongood]

With what others are saying how is that even possible? Lol.

I would buy Pre 2008 and manual. The newer stuff just isnt as well made, before you buy anything, have a google of comfortmatic and Mercedes Nox Sensor and wet belts

 

[Jon Stewart]

It says 368kg payload after specifying an auto box.

..and that's one of the other problems as well. Manufacturers are allowed a 5% variation on the stated mro (and hence payload) from the stated value.

So, you could take 10 identical examples of the same model, and likely most of them would be significantly over that weight, significantly reducing payload.

Say mro of 2800kg 5% is 140kg!

 

[PlacidoD]

Lots of Cathargo Compactlines here:

Used Motorhomes for Sale - Auto Trader UK

www.autotrader.co.uk

There are 2 lengths essentially 6.4 and 7 metres. Cyberyacht obviously has the 6.4 metre version. (I must say I like the division between transverse double and more space up forward!! But A Class windscreen are really expensive to replace. But a C class in that layout would be interesting!!)

In the hope that I am being helpful I would suggest that 6.7 meters is the absolute limit for staying below 3500kg There will be the occasional exception both ways. And to correct a wildly inaccurate statement from an earlier post an auto box adds about 50 kg not 200kg.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Baboboy]

Scenario we go away to Greece for 2 weeks baggage allowance is 23kg each for this we take all our clothes gym shoes, flip flops, smart shoes etc so 2 x cases including case weight is 46 kg plus hand luggage is below 60kg. We just did 3 weeks in Australia with 55kg allowance and managed.

So 100kg for passengers and cases food and lightweight cookware etc. doable?

It’s a minefield isn’t it.

I’m basing a lot of my data of the Dethleffs website as they base their payload on 90% full fuel etc so we can gain weight by not travelling fully laden etc if we’re going to serviced sites etc.

A C1 looks like a nightmare as you get assessed as if you were driving a full HGV as I’ve done a much theory test.

 

[Jon Stewart]

Ok have I interpreted this correctly. Below is from a “configured” van.

Important vehicle & weight information
3,500 kgTechnically permissible maximum laden mass*
287 kg Manufacturer-specified mass for optional equipment*
2,881 kg Mass in running order (+/-5%)*
198 kg Remaining mass for special equipment*

So if that’s specced to what we’d want that would mean the 287kg and the 198kg is combined to give an overall payload of 485kg or I have I just over simplified it.

Add the +5% and that comes to 3025kg
100l fresh water tank means +80kg over mro (or are you going to travel with none and fill up at the camp site, draining it before you leave? No off grid camping for you).
Extra gas tank ca 18kg
Solar?
Ehu cable.
Hose for filling water.
Do you have a spare wheel or are you going to rely on squeeze stuff or breakdown recovery.
Extra passenger 75kg+ (you're already over the nominal driver weight in the morning (so am I))
...and the 287kg of installed equipment.

Is that about 3487kg of your 3500kg?

What about bedding, crockery cutlery, food, clothes etc?

I know I'm sounding nasty about this, but just seen to many threads of people finding out how bad the payload was after they coughed up the reddies!

*Anybody feel free to correct my mental arithmetic!

(The two of us seem to use about (don't laugh, everybody) about 750kg of payload, Inc 200l fresh water (max, depending on trip), and two spare wheels (different rated front and back).

 

[Jon Stewart]

Baboboy

There are several points to make here.

Firstly, some manufacturers use up all of the allowance of +5%, so in your example that would bring the Manufacturer mass up to 3,025kg.

Many dealers order the optional equipment package from the manufacturer, or at least most of it e.g. awning, 2nd battery, etc so the 287kg is mostly if not all eaten up by optionals, bringing weight to 3312kg. It is unusual to find a model on a forecourt which has no extras.

You say you are 15st (95kg) and maybe Mrs. is 60kg so another 155kg, making 3,467kg, leaving 33kg.

The 'mass in running order' varies with each manufacturer, although standard in EU I think, but even if fuel and water are included they are minimal and only one 6kg gas bottle. What did all the asterisks say in the manufacturer's notes?

I am looking at worst case but in real life the figures are usually nearer the worst case than the manufacturers best case.

There are lots of owners of 3500kg limit MHs who struggle to keep under the weight, or worse, run overloaded.

You started by saying you are looking for a 'well built' model - the better the build the heavier they are, because of more durable fittings and furniture. Our N&B is an example: we were talking to their Head Salesman about under 3500kg and he said they do not offer one, which is not true if one looks at the brochure, but I think he was giving the practical and truthful answer that their models would not be practical at that weight.

You say that you are reluctant to do the C1 test, because of cost and anxiety. I think you would get more anxiety searching for an actual MH with sufficient payload and running it to keep down to it. If you had he C1 licence in your hand all these discussions would pale into insignificance.

Maybe not the advice you want but better now than being shocked by reality.

Geoff

Our calculations are very similar mine in another post).

One small thing... Mro usually includes an allowance of 75kg for driver, doesn't it?

 

[rod_vw]

I passed my test when the c1 option was not on the license when you passed.

I am 46 Mrs C is early 50’s.

I’m getting confused with it all.

Ah, so you passed your driving test after 1st January 1997.

Hopefully the UK will follow Europe and change the rules for heavier motor caravans.

 

[Barchetta47]

Okay here’s my alternative view..,,,…

You will be fine. There are numerous people in both the UK and Europe having a great time in 3.5T vans. There are people on here who can’t imagine it’s possible but if as you say you will travel light you will be okay. You will need to be careful but it’s far from impossible. Obviously you won’t be able to have 5 solar panels, a George Foreman grill, a microwave, a Remorska, an Air Fryer, 10 pairs of shoes, you get my drift but you will be okay.

If you run a bit over (100kg) so what. As far as I can tell from being on this forum for 7 years there might have been a couple of people who were stopped but not many.

As I say it will be okay….

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[VXman]

I bought a Burstner based on perceived German quality. I have been disappointed. But then again I haven't had anything else. Maybe my expectations are too high and the non German ones are even worse!

 

[Baboboy]

Ah, so you passed your driving test after 1st January 1997.

Hopefully the UK will follow Europe and change the rules for heavier motor caravans.

That’s interesting didn’t know that. What’s are the rules now do you know? Pity we came out the EU lol

 

[enark]

Think the question of which brand is better quality will always get personal views, or even tainted press views.

Any manufacturer can produce really good, or really bad quality vans, or anywhere in between. You will find cases where so called top German brands fall apart, equally other makes.

Find weight, layout, drive train and budget, which suits, then find a good example, if new buy as locally as you can, as their will be snagging issues…

 

[Lenny HB]

That’s interesting didn’t know that. What’s are the rules now do you know? Pity we came out the EU lol

EU members have two years I think it is to implement it, so far only Spain going ahead.
A B Licence holder will be able to drive an Ambulance, Motorhome & BEV up to 4250kg.

 

[Orion]

The CoC that accompanied our Adria Compact - 6.990m with ZF 9 speed auto gearbox - states an MIRO of 2773kg.

The Actual Mass of the Vehicle is shown as 3018kg which I’m presuming includes the factory fitted additional equipment - Truma Aventa Aircon, towbar, wind out awning, 2x100Ah AGM leisure batteries, solar panel. So by substituting a 280/320 Fogstar Lithium for the leisure batteries and adding a single or double Alugas installation, it should still leave a reasonable payload for a 3500kg vehicle.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[rod_vw]

That’s interesting didn’t know that. What’s are the rules now do you know? Pity we came out the EU lol

Have a read here.

 

[B+W vanman]

The CoC that accompanied our Adria Compact - 6.990m with ZF 9 speed auto gearbox - states an MIRO of 2773kg.

The Actual Mass of the Vehicle is shown as 3018kg which I’m presuming includes the factory fitted additional equipment - Truma Aventa Aircon, towbar, wind out awning, 2x100Ah AGM leisure batteries, solar panel. So by substituting a 280/320 Fogstar Lithium for the leisure batteries and adding a single or double Alugas installation, it should still leave a reasonable payload for a 3500kg vehicle.

Weigh it loaded to travel…..

 

[Orion]

Weigh it loaded to travel…..

Oh I did it from the outset as ours already had the “F.O.C. Upgrade” to 3650kg and have now gone to 4250kg due to our type of travelling - predominantly off grid, always full water, e-bikes, outdoor cooking equipment, etc. etc.

I posted it to give the OP some idea of what the MIRO and Actual Mass as supplied would be. After that it’s down to them to decide how lightly they can travel if they need to stay sub 3500kg.

 

[hja]

Our Globecar Summit Prime is a 6,4m PVC. Auto. Fixed beds, Gaslow system, solar, awning, 230ah lithium battery. Two adults (both over 75kg) Full fuel & water (100l) food, utensils, clothes (not a lot) two lightweight folding mobility scooters (About 38kg combined), hook up cable, watering can etc - the bits And we just come in under 3500.

 

[nicholsong]

The CoC that accompanied our Adria Compact - 6.990m with ZF 9 speed auto gearbox - states an MIRO of 2773kg.

The Actual Mass of the Vehicle is shown as 3018kg which I’m presuming includes the factory fitted additional equipment - Truma Aventa Aircon, towbar, wind out awning, 2x100Ah AGM leisure batteries, solar panel. So by substituting a 280/320 Fogstar Lithium for the leisure batteries and adding a single or double Alugas installation, it should still leave a reasonable payload for a 3500kg vehicle.

So if you find you can only get a vehicle with the additional equipment on it, what do you do? pay to have it taken off and waste the cost of the factory options? Then pay to fit Lithium and Alugas?

Cheaper to take the C1 course and test.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Jon Stewart]

Deleted.