Nothing to do with Mohos but van deliveries into EU will not be as easy for the man with the van?

[Paulypaul]

If your customer is aware that your GIT cover is insufficient for the commodity they are asking you to transport, you must surely have informed them beforehand to relieve you of any liability of the shortfall if anything goes pear shaped? If not, then you open yourself up to be sued. Plus, is your GIT insurer still going to cover you for any liability at all, knowing that you are transporting goods without adequate insurance cover?

My GIT cover is at an "All Risks" level specifically for boats, which is all I carry, up to £450,000 for any one boat. Its not often we exceed that value but if we do, we have to contact our insurer in advance to have a temporary increase in liability level. If we didn't, and then the boat got damaged in any way, then our insurer would tell us to do one, as we would have known we weren't adequately covered. The risk is not with the customer, its the risk of the operator hoping nothing goes wrong.

Take it from me, if you had to have an O licence to operate, to get that licence in the first instance is no easy task. So, the last thing I'm going to do is to purposely ignore regulations and legislation for fear of losing that licence. If I lost my O licence my repute would be bought into question and I'd probably never get another one, so my business would be finished.

That's what stops genuine operators from willfully ignoring the law regarding the operation of goods vehicles.

If you managed to get an O licence and then continued to ignore the legislation governing it, you deserve to have it revoked and put out of business. And there's my arguement.

I do understand the resentment from Johnny Courier who has never had to worry about anything apart from putting in a bit of squirt and getting to his next job double quick, forget GIT, H&R insurance, forget roadworthiness, it's all about the next cash job.

But at the same time, would you think that going out on a Friday and Saturday night in your car with a magnetic door sign saying "minicab", even though you're not licenced or adequately insured, and picking up punters going here and there, would be acceptable? Same principle.

 

[Despicable]

They could start by prosecuting at 51mph through the many motorway roadworks going on at the moment

That might stop the 'professional' hauliers from driving 6ft from a car full of kids because they were obeying the speed limit .

While there is no excuse for tailgating, I respectfully suggest that while your car's speedo is showing 50mph your car isn't doing that speed; but when an HGV's speedo is showing 50mph, it is. My car's speedo shows 52mph when it's doing 50; the moho is worse.

 

[emjaiuk]

I’ve already said that most if not all aircraft manufacturers or spares holding companies carry their own risk for items in transit. My understanding is that most major companies do the same. Back in the day British Railways were one of our clients, not transport related. Although I’m not sure how they covered 3rd party liability, they did not carry any insurance in the normal sense, including vehicles. The lodged some form of bond instead, saying it was much much cheaper.
You still haven’t answered the question about how the requirements for an O licence would make the cowboys conform.
It doesn’t with HGVs, and the threat of enforcement exists under current rules for vans

 

[ElliesBoss]

Think you'll find British Railways was a public carrier (one of the very few) as opposed to a private carrier. Probably has something to do with the way they "insured" goods back then.

 

[emjaiuk]

Nothing to do with that, their accountants simply decided it was more cost effective to carry all risks themselves

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Al-Di]

british rail had an indemnity deposit with the treasury, which i believe is still a binding contact for any user but the costs annually are very high,

 

[Paulypaul]

I’ve already said that most if not all aircraft manufacturers or spares holding companies carry their own risk for items in transit. My understanding is that most major companies do the same. Back in the day British Railways were one of our clients, not transport related. Although I’m not sure how they covered 3rd party liability, they did not carry any insurance in the normal sense, including vehicles. The lodged some form of bond instead, saying it was much much cheaper.
You still haven’t answered the question about how the requirements for an O licence would make the cowboys conform.
It doesn’t with HGVs, and the threat of enforcement exists under current rules for vans

Oh well, you crack on! I just put the original post on for a bit of info and to be honest, I'm not particularly interested in what the ramifications to the white van man is other than its well over due.

There are cowboys in every industry, but if you had a real grasp not what was involved in operating goods vehicles that are subject to O licence regulations, then perhaps you'd understand that there aren't the plethora of moody operators that there was a few years back. The Police ANPR have access to your operators licence score and can tell without even tugging you whether you have been compliant with regards to roadworthiness, MOT history, even advisoriies. But ufvyou want to think that there are as many HGV cowboys outfits as there are white van men cowboys then who am I to tell you otherwise.

That's me out now.

 

[Wack]

While there is no excuse for tailgating, I respectfully suggest that while your car's speedo is showing 50mph your car isn't doing that speed; but when an HGV's speedo is showing 50mph, it is. My car's speedo shows 52mph when it's doing 50; the moho is worse.

When my GPS is showing 50 so is the speedo , most cars are much more accurate than the cable off the gearbox days, they come past me at 54-55 , very few trucks drive through roadworks at 50

 

[Jaws]

Not in a million years could this be classed as racist (not in the real world anyway).

Yerrrr.. but there will be some snowflake reading this thread and now rushing off to their 'safe place'.......

 

[gus-lopez]

You then can verify your knowledge about driving hours,

Which don't apply to non .tacho drivers

They could start by prosecuting at 51mph through the many motorway roadworks going on at the moment

That might stop the 'professional' hauliers from driving 6ft from a car full of kids because they were obeying the speed limit .

The lorry is on 50mph exactly .It is the car relying on the speedo that is going to slowly.I get it all the time with the cruise set at 50mph by gps & bowling past many who are barely exceeding 40mph

But, it will stop the cowboys you see lining up at Dover and Folkestone with their battered Sprinters who probably aren't correctly insured and run day and night in unroadworthy motors.

Most who run back & forward UK.spain are "carrying their own goods" in both directions & have done for as long as I have lived here.

Expect to see many more under 2.5t vans on the ferry

Probably + they'll be able to enter the LEZ as they would be exempt.

I'd be very surprised if the there wasn't similar at Dover.

I'd be very surprised if there was .i've never seen anyone except me, in a motorhome & Polish in cars dragged in the shed?

Very well said there are real idiots driving around at the moment.

Yes & they need to understand what 50 mph is.

I know a bloke , resident & living here for at least 20 years, with a UK registered lorry & drag doing removals all over the EU that rns under a Scottish operators licence.?
Another dodgy one runs 3,5 Tonne lwb sprinters , first thing he does is have the rear springs changed for 519 ones(5Tonne+) so he can run overweight whilst looking empty. Along with "it's all my own goods"

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[gus-lopez]

.

 

[gus-lopez]

When my GPS is showing 50 so is the speedo , most cars are much more accurate than the cable off the gearbox days, they come past me at 54-55 , very few trucks drive through roadworks at 50

I run 2 cameras & a sat nav all with gps & now way is the speedo anywhere accurate on either this transit or the last ducato.

 

[ElliesBoss]

The Domestic Rules on van driving hours​

These apply to commercial vehicles not exceeding 3.5-tonnes and there are just two main limits.

10 hours of daily driving​

Applies from the moment you start driving. It includes time spent off-road and time behind the wheel with the engine running and controlling the vehicle. This could be when the vehicle is stationary or moving.

11 hours of daily duty​

The period of 24 hours from the beginning of your shift. Drivers are excluded from the daily duty limit on any working day if they don’t drive.
In summary, the Domestic Rules mean that you can spend up to 11 hours a day working, but no more than 10 of those can be spent driving.

Exceptions​

As with all rules, there are exceptions. If you drive a vehicle to which these rules apply, but spend a maximum of four hours a week behind the wheel, then you aren’t subject to the ‘daily duty’ limit on any day of the week. There is a confusing caveat here; if you exceed more than four hours in one day, the limit is applied to the whole week.

 

[Ivory55]

As a haulage operator I cannot operate unless I hold an operators licence. This isn't just something I applied for in the post? You have to satisfy the traffic commissioner that you are of good repute, have a certain amount of money, which obviously proves you have the means to maintain the roadworthiness of your vehicle/s, and prove that you have an agreement with a reputable service agent who will undertake your PMI's on your truck and/or trailer at the appropriate intervals (6,8,10 or 12 weekly) and have an appropriate operating centre where the vehicles will be parked.

But before all that, you have to be appropriately qualified and hold a CPC (certificate of professional competence) not to be confused with the driver cpc. Or you can have a suitably qualified CPC holder listed as your transport manager. Either way, the buck stops with the CPC holder.

For vans, I think its overdue. Sure, the owner drivers who are properly insured, operate good equipment and care about what they do, its going to be a ball ache having to go through the beaurocracy that goods vehicle operators of larger vehicles have had to do. For large well run companies it will just mean that their transport manager will have to hold a cpc and that the company can satisfy the requirements of the traffic commissioner.

But, it will stop the cowboys you see lining up at Dover and Folkestone with their battered Sprinters who probably aren't correctly insured and run day and night in unroadworthy motors.

It's like everything else though, the few who take the p##s spoil it for the ones who are conscientious and who run a proper business. But the customer may also benefit, because they should have some confidence that their goods are being transported legally and professionally.

Anyone can buy an old van, put a post on Facebook and offer their UK/European transport service who will carry anything you like...for cash.....not for much longer it seems?

As a haulage operator you must be on drugs or mentally insane, haha

 

[Paulypaul]

As a haulage operator you must be on drugs or mentally insane, haha

Not on drugs but the latter for sure....anything to do with lorries is ag!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[gus-lopez]

The Domestic Rules on van driving hours​

These apply to commercial vehicles not exceeding 3.5-tonnes and there are just two main limits.

10 hours of daily driving​

Applies from the moment you start driving. It includes time spent off-road and time behind the wheel with the engine running and controlling the vehicle. This could be when the vehicle is stationary or moving.

11 hours of daily duty​

The period of 24 hours from the beginning of your shift. Drivers are excluded from the daily duty limit on any working day if they don’t drive.
In summary, the Domestic Rules mean that you can spend up to 11 hours a day working, but no more than 10 of those can be spent driving.

Exceptions​

As with all rules, there are exceptions. If you drive a vehicle to which these rules apply, but spend a maximum of four hours a week behind the wheel, then you aren’t subject to the ‘daily duty’ limit on any day of the week. There is a confusing caveat here; if you exceed more than four hours in one day, the limit is applied to the whole week.

I think you will find they are the "domestic rules" for the UK for tachograph users as opposed to the "EU rules"

 

[ElliesBoss]

I think you will find they are the "domestic rules" for the UK for tachograph users as opposed to the "EU rules"

They are. But still have to be obeyed whilst in UK. Also I have no idea whether EU countries have their own rules for vans under 3.5T. You could probably answer that one for Spain at least. Also I think the OP moved on a bit from just EU countries. If EU countries did adopt an operators licence for light vans then the UK would almost definitely follow.

 

[emjaiuk]

They apply to drivers of vans between 2.5 and 3.5 ton. The are UK national rules. Each EU country has it’s own

 

[Wack]

This is what we should be worried about , not O licences on vans

Tachograph fraud

Caught bang to rights driving 44t of potential death for nobody knows how many hours a day and he gets a £580 fine , some people get more than that for doing 48 in a 40 ,we're not in the EU any more , ban them from driving in the UK if they're doing this

 

[AXO66]

Not in a million years could this be classed as racist (not in the real world anyway).

It is, !

totally so.!


White van man is always guilty of ....racing , like wants to be the raciest person

just wokeing

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Paulypaul]

Perhaps white van man should petition the government at N°10 to stop this going any further....they wouldn't have to get past security cause they could just throw the petition over the fence.