Normal diesel or posh diesel?

[GeordieNomad]

Ive joined a few MH FB groups and I’ve seen a few posts of the benefits of using the better kind of diesel you can get at petrol stations. Folk claim its better for the van, better mpg etc..
Question is, is there any truth in this?

Cheers

 

[dawsey]

All the talk is about additives.
Buy the posh diesel because it has better additives.
Is there a cost comparison between buying posh diesel and buying supermarket diesel then putting in your own additives?
Also, if so, which additives?

There have been a few attempts at this, results are always inconclusive. There are just too many variables.

Someone above asked whether a higher quality fuel would make their engine last 145k or 150k. It’s impossible to be definitive.

What is beyond question is that with fuel, as with almost all else, you get what you pay for. The more expensive stuff is a better product. It is better for your engine. It has higher octane rating (petrol) combustion enhancers (both) added detergent (both), enhanced longevity in your tank and less tendency to eat old rubber components (petrol, due to lower or zero ethanol). The higher price stuff is undeniably a better product.

Is it better for your engine - in general terms, over time, yes.
Will you notice in terms of performance - unlikely, especially if you run a commercial diesel engine (camper van) for reasons I have outlined. You might notice a diesel runs a bit quieter when it is cold, etc.
Will it make your engine last longer? - it depends. all other things equal, and in the long term, maybe, because it will mean less chance of blocked injectors etc in the long run.

However, your modern, newish engine is not going to fail anytime soon as a result of using normal fuel, and in reality, it won’t be your engine that fails anyway, it will be seals, electricals, ancillaries. Modern engines (by that I mean pistons. rings, crank and rod bearings) just don’t wear. Technology has moved engines past that, especially oil, combustion control and material technology. Engines don’t ‘wear out’ anymore.

You as a consumer have a choice, as with all other things. It’s up to you. If you bought two vehicles from new and ran them both for 20yrs, one on high quality fuel and one on the cheapest supermarket fuel, all other things being equal, the one run on the high quality fuel will run better for longer and be less likely to fail. If you opened up the two engines for inspection after 20 years you would absolutely see the difference.

It is the same if you use cheap oil instead of synthetic or you feed yourself on mcdonalds every day instead of a balanced diet. Sooner or later you will notice the difference.

If you are only keeping the van a couple of year then put the cheapest 20/50 you can find in it and run it on supermarket fuel. The damage/degradation will not be evident to you or anyone else after just a couple of years so why should you care? The price will only be paid by the poor sap who buys your van when it is 10-15 yrs old.

 

[VXman]

I use tesco 99 or shell v power in my VX220 be cause the engine is remapped/modified and producing 330bhp (as apposed to 197 standard) The conversion company say 97 at minimum. It is mapped to use high octane fuel. My megane and fiat Ducato are not.

I have tried 99 in my Megane but never noticed any difference. I would never worry about mpg and it's to complex to do comparisons anyway.

Thats great for you, have you ever tried premium fuels? although I wonder if newer vehicles are more sensitive to fuel types. Having said that I did have a 2008 Fiat based motorhome which certainly ran better on premium fuels. I suppose its a case of individual choice according to the benefits or otherwise they perceive

 

[Just smiffy]

Cheapest I can find but add miller’s diesel additive sometimes..

 

[SpeedyDux]

My low mileage means the cost savings with diesel ordinaire are too small to worry me so I will stick with the premium stuff.

97 or 98 octane petrol was always better than 95 in my previous car. Noticeable quicker performance (French super petrol even more super than the UK stuff) with lower consumption, and the engine management light didn't keep coming on when sensors got clogged up.

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[iandsm]

Just done a 260 mile trip from Lincolnshire to Exmouth in my Boxer PVC and it recorded 38.9 mpg, must have been a back wind.

Mine does 38.5 whatever I do with it. Must be the premium diesel

 

[the1andonly]

I can only dream of 25-27mpg typically getting 23mpg towing.

 

[Daffy64]

There have been a few attempts at this, results are always inconclusive. There are just too many variables.

Someone above asked whether a higher quality fuel would make their engine last 145k or 150k. It’s impossible to be definitive.

What is beyond question is that with fuel, as with almost all else, you get what you pay for. The more expensive stuff is a better product. It is better for your engine. It has higher octane rating (petrol) combustion enhancers (both) added detergent (both), enhanced longevity in your tank and less tendency to eat old rubber components (petrol, due to lower or zero ethanol). The higher price stuff is undeniably a better product.

Is it better for your engine - in general terms, over time, yes.
Will you notice in terms of performance - unlikely, especially if you run a commercial diesel engine (camper van) for reasons I have outlined. You might notice a diesel runs a bit quieter when it is cold, etc.
Will it make your engine last longer? - it depends. all other things equal, and in the long term, maybe, because it will mean less chance of blocked injectors etc in the long run.

However, your modern, newish engine is not going to fail anytime soon as a result of using normal fuel, and in reality, it won’t be your engine that fails anyway, it will be seals, electricals, ancillaries. Modern engines (by that I mean pistons. rings, crank and rod bearings) just don’t wear. Technology has moved engines past that, especially oil, combustion control and material technology. Engines don’t ‘wear out’ anymore.

You as a consumer have a choice, as with all other things. It’s up to you. If you bought two vehicles from new and ran them both for 20yrs, one on high quality fuel and one on the cheapest supermarket fuel, all other things being equal, the one run on the high quality fuel will run better for longer and be less likely to fail. If you opened up the two engines for inspection after 20 years you would absolutely see the difference.

It is the same if you use cheap oil instead of synthetic or you feed yourself on mcdonalds every day instead of a balanced diet. Sooner or later you will notice the difference.

If you are only keeping the van a couple of year then put the cheapest 20/50 you can find in it and run it on supermarket fuel. The damage/degradation will not be evident to you or anyone else after just a couple of years so why should you care? The price will only be paid by the poor sap who buys your van when it is 10-15 yrs old.

I’d say a Motorhome engine is a high speed diesel engine and fuel is a consumable part of the engine (it isn’t an engine without fuel - it’s an expensive ornament)

I’d also say Diesel is like a pie, you can buy a cheap pie that you won’t enjoy and it’ll give you wind or you can buy a nice pie that will make you happy or you can buy a Fortnum and mason pie that will also be very nice but cost you more.

The supermarkets buy to a price, you might be lucky and get branded (shell, Esso etc) if there’s surplus but you might get the bargain basement additive pack which you don’t want.

Any branded fuel will do a good job and won’t cause you problems long term.

Any premium fuel will cost you more and may make a difference to how the engine runs but it’s not necessary unless you get some reassurance but that’s a personal thing.

Diesel stopped being self lubricating years ago when they took the sulphur out, it now needs lubricity enhancers added as part of the packs - again the better the pack the better the lubricity enhancer.

I can’t tell you how many fuel samples we’ve taken over the years and the first question is does it meet EN590 - the answer is almost always yes but some only just and some far exceed it- the spec is a mostly a minimum std albeit some elements are in a band - you do get what you pay for.

I remember a conversation with an engineer of a major fuel supplier about their stocks of fuel, they had a cancelled order for many thousands of litres of Bio diesel, I asked him what they would do with it - he said someone would buy it if the price was right and retail it out - one things for sure none of the ‘brands’ would have put their name on it

He also said in passing that he could put 30,000 Ltr of milk into some of the very busy retail sites and be long gone before there was a problem and they would never be able to tie it back to his company because they have multiple suppliers.

I will stress that it wasn’t something he would condone but was rather making the point that certain retailers who are not tied to a brand buy on the open market based on price and fuel that no one wants will be cheap…

 

[IRHP]

Just done a 260 mile trip from Lincolnshire to Exmouth in my Boxer PVC and it recorded 38.9 mpg, must have been a back wind.

It's no laughing matter. I find it makes a big difference.

 

[Emmit]

I've just been sent an inducement on the Shell App that, if I've got it right, would mean
I get nearly 5p a Litre off the V Power Diesel.

I'm nearly tempted as I would like to know if that makes any significant difference.

I'm not suggesting that I would go onto it full time as the price differential is currently
10p a Litre but it would identify (or not ) the benefits should I get somewhere where the difference
wasn't so great.

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[chris McKenny]

Ive joined a few MH FB groups and I’ve seen a few posts of the benefits of using the better kind of diesel you can get at petrol stations. Folk claim its better for the van, better mpg etc..
Question is, is there any truth in this?

Cheers

Morning just seen your thread , May this year drove from France ,Brittany to Newbury approx 1000 kms , supermarket diesel , filled up in Uk V power and a marked difference on return trip , running in main on motorways at 70 in A class .

 

[Guigsy]

Morning just seen your thread , May this year drove from France ,Brittany to Newbury approx 1000 kms , supermarket diesel , filled up in Uk V power and a marked difference on return trip , running in main on motorways at 70 in A class .

Prevailing winds?

 

[Don Campbell]

Full to full on supermarket diesel since buying the MH three years ago = 32.43mpg with an average speed of 33.63mph, but cruising at 55-60.

Can see you love life in the fast lane! I cruise at whatever the max is and don't really care about mpg. Once had a Winnebago that did nearly 10 miles to the gallon and another with a 3 litre Merc that did 17, so 27 in the Campscout is fantastic. I'm not changing my driving habits for the sake of a few mpg.

 

[DMartin]

Quite a few years ago, my little Merc A170 diesel was running a bit rough, especially noticeable at idle. My garage suggested I might be in for a very expensive replacement of injector(s). One tank of premium diesel completely sorted the problem, a bargain. Since then my diesel vehicles get a tank full at least once a year.

 

[555 FRY]

Travelling Monday gone to Bonterra Park in Benicasim in our McLaren Shadow Sprinter.
Never had economy like this before.

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[Garry - June]

This thread is quite funny when you consider only a few years back everyone was clamouring to buy used chip oil to put in their tanks.. and I know some who still do.

 

[Mad dog]

It didn't make any difference in a Discovery I had previously, so never tried in the van. I use Redex every few fills to help keep things clean. I've a 6m pvc & get around 25mpg, I drive it like I do my car. It does what it does!

 

[Daffy64]

The real issue is with newer engines as the ever increasing emissions standards mean manufacturers have had to become more creative to achieve them - this means more complex engines with more ‘systems’ on board.

Just because your 1970’s land rover runs on anything that’s wet and slippy doesn’t mean that your new land rover will.

In fact if you had a supply of 1990’s diesel a modern engine wouldn’t like it due to the massive sulphur content compared to today, you’d have problems with your DPF in no time.

A bit of waffle to point out that just because your mates mate has run his car on chip fat for the last 20 years without problem doesn’t mean it’s good for your pride and joy.

 

[VXman]

Ive joined a few MH FB groups and I’ve seen a few posts of the benefits of using the better kind of diesel you can get at petrol stations. Folk claim its better for the van, better mpg etc..
Question is, is there any truth in this?

Cheers

Confirmation Bias:-

Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values

 

[Dolmen]

Confirmation Bias:-

Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values

Don't forget 'Falsification Bias' is just as strong an instinct

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[DT]

With all diesels following advice from many I fill with premium and next fill with supermarket offers.

 

[Rhagu]

Hi. I've been using premium fuel for some years now, and always log my mpg. I use Ultimate diesel in my motor caravan, and ultimate petrol consistently in my car. I have experimented with V Power, and found myself very disappointed ant the low mileage so haven't used it long enough to record the difference to engine maintenance. However, Ultimate fuels from my nearby BP ,if you fill up from almost empty will see an immediate difference. As an added bonus, my local Mechanic always comments on how well the engine runs plus better emissions in comparison to other cars he works on.

 

[Dorset Diver]

For donkey's years I was in the "don't waste money on premium as the standard stuff was just as good" camp. Then, one day I called into Costco with my Volvo XC70 D5 and a very near empty tank which I fill with their premium. The improvement after about 25 miles was really noticeable so I did the same with the MH and that was noticeable as well. I don't buy over priced premium elsewhere, just stick to the standard, but give the van and car a treat as and when a Costco opportunity presents itself.

 

[Jev88]

Doesn't a modern ECU take several tanks full before it makes any adjustments to running conditions of the engine? I.e. it takes some time before it acknowledges higher octane etc?

 

[Dorset Diver]

Octane is a measure for petrol, Cetane, also known as cetane number is the measurement of the quality or performance of diesel fuel. Whether or not the ECU on a diesel works in the same way as that on a petrol engine I have no idea.

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[Apacheman]

Try driving with less braking, for example knowing there’s a roundabout up ahead take your foot off the accelerator, seeing the lights are red from a distance take your foot off the accelerator. Much better than paying 10p per litre for a super diesel and guaranteed to up your mileage by at least 10%.

 

[iandsm]

Try driving with less braking, for example knowing there’s a roundabout up ahead take your foot off the accelerator, seeing the lights are red from a distance take your foot off the accelerator. Much better than paying 10p per litre for a super diesel and guaranteed to up your mileage by at least 10%.

That's very true if all you are concerned about id MPG, but ig you are concerned about engine health the peremium fuels have the edge, I am sure some will agree, other not.

 

[RetiredPope]

Not listened to this episode yet, but find the standard of their investigations to be good. BBC Sounds Sliced Bread series.

Sliced Bread - Petrol - BBC Sounds

Is paying more for premium petrol worth the extra pennies?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[jess12]

Tried both no real diffrence mileage wise pretty consistent around 27 mpg but with all the aerodynamics of dust cart not really that surprising

 

[Raul]

Octane is a measure for petrol, Cetane, also known as cetane number is the measurement of the quality or performance of diesel fuel. Whether or not the ECU on a diesel works in the same way as that on a petrol engine I have no idea.

It doesn't, on petrol the knock sensor feeds the info to ecu and with higher octane it will adjust the ignition timing electronically to avoid pre ignition. This is done very fast, and as soon as 98-99 octane enters combustion, immediately its adjusted by the ecu.
On diesel you have a fixed fuelling map, its not adjusted on higher cetane. The only time this can be changed, its only when you have a re map.

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[gus-lopez]

I normally use the council diesel at my local fuel station,but we have a few fuel stations including a repsol locally,who sell the posh stuff at either the same price or +1cent. So on a few occasions I've filled with it.
Can't say I've noticed any difference? I always check mpg by filling full to full.
Just travelled 1700miles and averaging just under31which is ok for me running at nearly 3,3t and roof box and other tat up there.plus plenty of cruise control but in 3rd or 4th as I use the A and N roads.

its only going to the scrap yard because of Mr Sadiq Kahn.

Any chance you can lock him inside when it is crushed?