Noisy A-Class

[Guigsy]

Picked up my new-to-me Geist i585 last week. It's a 6m 2020 A-Class on Ducato chassis. Geist is a sub-brand of LMC, which is a sub-brand of Hymer group. I don't know much about them really. The interior seems to be really good quality. Nicely put together with hidden screw heads, thick panels and a good design. Lots of quality touches. I'll do a mini-review on another thread at some point because there's no much info out there about them...

The issue is the noise when driving...

I come from a post-conversion 2007 Ducato panel van. The conversion that was done was with reasonable quality furniture, but it was just all screwed together to make it fit. I don't think there was any consideration about how it needs to flex or move when in motion, so it creaked, squeaked, rattled and boomed a lot. But we drove around Europe in it for 6 months a couple of years back. I got used to the noises.

On a rare bit of smooth road, the Geist is fairly quiet. There's only a purr from the engine and there's not a lot of wind noise and the road rumble isn't too bad. However, as soon as I hit a bump or a tarmac joint on the motorway, it shakes and bangs really badly. It's uncomfortably loud as it shakes it way over the surface of the M6. Through the seat of 'yer pants, the ride isn't that bad, it's just the racket it makes as it hits a rough bit of tarmac (which is everywhere). This is before I've loaded any stuff in it, so it's not plates and bottles of beer that are making the racket, it's the body of the van. Any ideas what I can do?

The massive dash cowl appears to be pretty thin plastic. I assume there must be something behind it as I can barely hear the engine. But it sounds thin. Are they normally easy to get out? Could I stick some sound insulation to the back of it? I previously put sound insulation in the doors of my van and it made a big difference...

The tyres are Michelin Agilis Camping. They've only got 10k miles on, so they are pretty new. I know they've got a stiff sidewall. How much difference would a set of normal van tyres make to the ride quality? The van is well under it's 3.5t limit.

I've put semi-air suspension on my previous van. That was riding very low, so it was resting on the bump-stops all the time. It made the ride on big bumps a fair bit better. But I've checked the Geist and there's a good gap between the stops and the pad when it's at rest with a belly load of water, so I'm not sure how much difference semi-air would make. And when I hit a bump, the front causes just as much crash as the back. With the few trips I've made so far, the handling seems OK too.

Are there any bits that typically make the most noise? Is there anything else I can do?

Cheers.

 

[Larrynwin]

But what would you do if your door sticker said 80psi (5.5 bar) all round? Would you run lower than recommended?

If it was uncomfortable as yours appears to be I would get accurate loaded weights of front rear and total and check recommended pressures with tyre manufacturer.
I am running at .2 bar cold less than pressures recommended by Hymer handbook for tyres fitted .

 

[EuroTrotters]

Quietest A class I had was a Mercedes V6.

waa never out of the garage mind

 

[GWAYGWAY]

My Hymer MLi is terrible crashing and banging from the road surface. I use 55psi in the front and 65 at the rear with the weights and pressure from Continental, it came with 80 all around and THAT was bad. It is still awfully noisy and even special front springs and air on the back it never got better, it feels like it hits the bump-stops on the front all the time.

 

[Jo and Jen]

Picked up my new-to-me Geist i585 last week. It's a 6m 2020 A-Class on Ducato chassis. Geist is a sub-brand of LMC, which is a sub-brand of Hymer group. I don't know much about them really. The interior seems to be really good quality. Nicely put together with hidden screw heads, thick panels and a good design. Lots of quality touches. I'll do a mini-review on another thread at some point because there's no much info out there about them...

The issue is the noise when driving...

I come from a post-conversion 2007 Ducato panel van. The conversion that was done was with reasonable quality furniture, but it was just all screwed together to make it fit. I don't think there was any consideration about how it needs to flex or move when in motion, so it creaked, squeaked, rattled and boomed a lot. But we drove around Europe in it for 6 months a couple of years back. I got used to the noises.

On a rare bit of smooth road, the Geist is fairly quiet. There's only a purr from the engine and there's not a lot of wind noise and the road rumble isn't too bad. However, as soon as I hit a bump or a tarmac joint on the motorway, it shakes and bangs really badly. It's uncomfortably loud as it shakes it way over the surface of the M6. Through the seat of 'yer pants, the ride isn't that bad, it's just the racket it makes as it hits a rough bit of tarmac (which is everywhere). This is before I've loaded any stuff in it, so it's not plates and bottles of beer that are making the racket, it's the body of the van. Any ideas what I can do?

The massive dash cowl appears to be pretty thin plastic. I assume there must be something behind it as I can barely hear the engine. But it sounds thin. Are they normally easy to get out? Could I stick some sound insulation to the back of it? I previously put sound insulation in the doors of my van and it made a big difference...

The tyres are Michelin Agilis Camping. They've only got 10k miles on, so they are pretty new. I know they've got a stiff sidewall. How much difference would a set of normal van tyres make to the ride quality? The van is well under it's 3.5t limit.

I've put semi-air suspension on my previous van. That was riding very low, so it was resting on the bump-stops all the time. It made the ride on big bumps a fair bit better. But I've checked the Geist and there's a good gap between the stops and the pad when it's at rest with a belly load of water, so I'm not sure how much difference semi-air would make. And when I hit a bump, the front causes just as much crash as the back. With the few trips I've made so far, the handling seems OK too.

Are there any bits that typically make the most noise? Is there anything else I can do?

Cheers.

Hi, this is a strong possibility. The front coil springs on some A class M/H leave the Fiat factory for conversion with thinner versions than necessary ( not just Hymer ) and as a result the front suspension ’bottoms out “. Hymer have the cheek to boast about using Goldschmitt to solve their suspension problem that they kept a secret for so long. Anyway, I think you may benefit from front spring diameter of 19mm and may have 17mm fitted. An open ended spanner makes measuring easy. Not a cheap solution but you may be able to convince the supplier that the springs are not fit for purpose. The other important issue is tyre pressures, often too high on the sub 3.5 tonne models. Once loaded get the axle weights from a weigh bridge and contact Michelin, then you know you are correct. Good Luck

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[wp1234]

No rattles on my Laika A Class . Running at 65 psi front 72 psi rear . I did fit comfort spring on the front and semi air suspension on the back, this made a big difference to ride and handling .

 

[ManTheVan]

I really rate Michelin agillis crossclimate, I had them on the previous van and had them put on our current pvc, virtually no road noise superb grip wet and dry, very good on wet grass. Mine are 121 rated so plenty strong enough.
give a lovely ride, transformed the ride quality in our previous A class, less so on the pvc as it had them on the front and vanco on the rear, the droning is gone from the rear so quieter than the vancos

Completely agree. Although it’s a different scenario, I swapped the Vanco tyres our C-class came with, for Agilis Cross-climates. Transformational. We run at 3.5bar on the front and 4.5bar at rear, fully laden, based on weighbridge readings. The ride was instantly blissful and grip in wet and dry is wonderful.

 

[A S R]

My 2007 Burstner Elegance A class crashes, bangs and squeaks all the time. I had a new set of Michelin tyres put on and the garage pumped them up to around 75 psi. I lowered them to 65 psi all round and it didn’t make a scrap of difference!
It’s just what it does I guess.

 

[bridgedino]

Tyre pressure is the biggest problem, hey normally come from the dealers pumped up to bursting point!

The Michelin Agilis Camping tyres on our motorhome were set at 75psi when we got it new. Its always been a hard ride however if i reduce the pressures I get a quieter ride but I have to then endure the tpi warning light & dash message until I increase the pressure again

 

[Paulypaul]

This thread has me wondering about our tyre pressure? We have Mitchell Agilis on our van plated at 4000kg with rear semi Air fitted. I'm running fronts at 65 psi and rear at 82 psi....I'm now thinking I'm way over?
Not had an issue with the Agilis and they did us ok grip wise in the snow in Spain in January too.

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[Pete D.]

You will get rid of half the noise and improve the ride no end if you swap the tyres.
Michelin agillis camping are shockingly bad tyres.
We had them on our previous A class when we bought it 2 days later I had all 4 swapped and the difference was like night and day

What tyres did you swap too? I will soon be in the market to change my Michelins.

 

[Imala615]

I had a Hymer B504CL for a couple of years and the first comment i had ( from one of the long term members here (Andy) Techno) "you will enjoy rattling about in that " as it happened he was right but it wasn't too bad but the blinds were where the biggest rattles were coming from , a bit of foam along the bottom runners helped. Incidentally i was running on Michelins Agilis Campers which seemed ok to me.

 

[Deep Owl]

Over time I’ve dropped my Michelin CP tyres from 5.5 bar all round to 3.5 at the front,4.5 at the back with a weighbridge weight of usually 3.9 tonnes. The difference is remarkable in sound reduction, much less crashing and bumping.

Incidentally these are 8 year old tyres, which I have had inspected as essentially perfect. I only drive at about 57mph, even in town.

 

[Harvard]

Our N&B Arto has almost no squeaks, bangs or rattles but does thump over potholes and join lines in Tarmac etc. Just changed rear tyres from Agilis Camping to Cross Climates after an MoT advisory. Used to go THUMP THUMP over rough bits but now goes THUMP thump, much improved so another vote for Cross Climate.

 

[Paulypaul]

Another vote to check the tyre pressures. Many go with the 5.5bar stated on the door pillar. In my opinion just to hard. I used to run 65psi on the 4250kg Autotrail over 39k miles. Now run similar on the Burstner (4500kg).

Is that 65 all round?

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[Kevmand]

Picked up my new-to-me Geist i585 last week. It's a 6m 2020 A-Class on Ducato chassis. Geist is a sub-brand of LMC, which is a sub-brand of Hymer group. I don't know much about them really. The interior seems to be really good quality. Nicely put together with hidden screw heads, thick panels and a good design. Lots of quality touches. I'll do a mini-review on another thread at some point because there's no much info out there about them...

The issue is the noise when driving...

I come from a post-conversion 2007 Ducato panel van. The conversion that was done was with reasonable quality furniture, but it was just all screwed together to make it fit. I don't think there was any consideration about how it needs to flex or move when in motion, so it creaked, squeaked, rattled and boomed a lot. But we drove around Europe in it for 6 months a couple of years back. I got used to the noises.

On a rare bit of smooth road, the Geist is fairly quiet. There's only a purr from the engine and there's not a lot of wind noise and the road rumble isn't too bad. However, as soon as I hit a bump or a tarmac joint on the motorway, it shakes and bangs really badly. It's uncomfortably loud as it shakes it way over the surface of the M6. Through the seat of 'yer pants, the ride isn't that bad, it's just the racket it makes as it hits a rough bit of tarmac (which is everywhere). This is before I've loaded any stuff in it, so it's not plates and bottles of beer that are making the racket, it's the body of the van. Any ideas what I can do?

The massive dash cowl appears to be pretty thin plastic. I assume there must be something behind it as I can barely hear the engine. But it sounds thin. Are they normally easy to get out? Could I stick some sound insulation to the back of it? I previously put sound insulation in the doors of my van and it made a big difference...

The tyres are Michelin Agilis Camping. They've only got 10k miles on, so they are pretty new. I know they've got a stiff sidewall. How much difference would a set of normal van tyres make to the ride quality? The van is well under it's 3.5t limit.

I've put semi-air suspension on my previous van. That was riding very low, so it was resting on the bump-stops all the time. It made the ride on big bumps a fair bit better. But I've checked the Geist and there's a good gap between the stops and the pad when it's at rest with a belly load of water, so I'm not sure how much difference semi-air would make. And when I hit a bump, the front causes just as much crash as the back. With the few trips I've made so far, the handling seems OK too.

Are there any bits that typically make the most noise? Is there anything else I can do?

Cheers.

We bought and sold a pilote for the same reason. Now got a hymer exsis with comfort suspension. Which is I believe 3.0 ducato springs . The ride and noise is totally different. You can fit vb springs which will transform the ride at the front

 

[Lenny HB]

We bought and sold a pilote for the same reason. Now got a hymer exsis with comfort suspension. Which is I believe 3.0 ducato springs . The ride and noise is totally different. You can fit vb springs which will transform the ride at the front

Our last van was an Exsis i678 the ride was good but our current van Hymer Dynamic Line the ride was atrocious until we fitted full air. The ride really does depend on the individual build.

 

[Larrynwin]

Some mention the same pressure all round but it doesn’t sound correct to me considering the rear axle weight on motorhomes is heavier and begs the question that pressure should be higher in rear tyres to allow for this.
My handbook recommends 4.5 bar front and 5.5 bar rear.

 

[funflair]

Our N&B Arto has almost no squeaks, bangs or rattles but does thump over potholes and join lines in Tarmac etc. Just changed rear tyres from Agilis Camping to Cross Climates after an MoT advisory. Used to go THUMP THUMP over rough bits but now goes THUMP thump, much improved so another vote for Cross Climate.

What are these squeaks, bangs and rattles you talk off

 

[Coolcats]

Over time I’ve dropped my Michelin CP tyres from 5.5 bar all round to 3.5 at the front,4.5 at the back with a weighbridge weight of usually 3.9 tonnes. The difference is remarkable in sound reduction, much less crashing and bumping.

Incidentally these are 8 year old tyres, which I have had inspected as essentially perfect. I only drive at about 57mph, even in town.

I'm not going to be popular with my comment but here goes, the first thing is a manufacturer will have tested the vehicle in conjunction with the tyre manufacturer. lowering your pressure by as much as 2 bar means that the side walls will be under greater stress, there will also be more flex in the steering. In addition the tyres will be more prone to aquaplaning, as the tread wears this will more pronounced. Have an accident whether it is your fault or not and the insurance company checks those pressures against the recommended one they may choose not to pay out.....

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[ivorantony]

If fitted Michelin agilis alpen tyres next size up to standard and weight rating also increased to 121,
I phoned Michelin uk and gave them the tyre size and rating plus my axle weights, a tiny white lie that it was a commercial pick up and they gave me the tyre pressure’s recommended, 55psi front and 62 psi rear,
They work well at those pressures with minimum road noise,

 

[Lenny HB]

I'm not going to be popular with my comment but here goes, the first thing is a manufacturer will have tested the vehicle in conjunction with the tyre manufacturer. lowering your pressure by as much as 2 bar means that the side walls will be under greater stress, there will also be more flex in the steering. In addition the tyres will be more prone to aquaplaning, as the tread wears this will more pronounced. Have an accident whether it is your fault or not and the insurance company checks those pressures against the recommended one they may choose not to pay out.....

Don't agree as Michelin quote 5.5 bar for the rear axle for their CP tyres regardless of load no other tyre manufacturer does this.

 

[Coolcats]

Don't agree as Michelin quote 5.5 bar for the rear axle for their CP tyres regardless of load no other tyre manufacturer does this.

As I said my comment wouldn't be popular, try using that argument with an insurer a vehicle has recommended pressures and if you do not use these the insurance can be invalidated, along with the other issues I outlined......

Just looked at the Michelin site, a quick glance at the reviews some love them some hate them which is about the same for any product, what I would say is there are many factors involved in vehicle Noise, Vibration and Harshness (NVH).

generic pressure is not as you stated it is:-

 

[Coolcats]

If fitted Michelin agilis alpen tyres next size up to standard and weight rating also increased to 121,
I phoned Michelin uk and gave them the tyre size and rating plus my axle weights, a tiny white lie that it was a commercial pick up and they gave me the tyre pressure’s recommended, 55psi front and 62 psi rear,
They work well at those pressures with minimum road noise,

Good for you on checking with Michelin

 

[Chris_H]

We felt the same when we picked up our new A-Class Laika Kreos last August.

It was on Michelin Agilis Camping tyres and initially the tyre pressure was set 65 front and 70 rear, however it did appear to be noisier than we expected, but mainly from engine noise, which we have discussed in a previous thread. We subsequently had SAP fit full air-suspension and this reduced some of the road noise and installed a sound-deadening mat over the engine and again this reduced some of the engine noise. Also noticed road/traffic noise was travelling through gaps between the front door windows and the inner frame. It appeared to be missing some rubber trim strips - so we installed these and this made a big difference. Added extra front floor mats, and again all the better.

All was good until we made a dealer warranty visit and were advised to increase the tyre pressures to 80psi all round. This dramatically increased the road noise, especially over 60MPH and made the ride considerably harsher, even with air suspension! Contacted Michelin and they recommended 65 front, 80 rear. 65 front makes it noticeably quieter and smoother, but makes it a bit spongier! It appears Fiat recommends 80psi all round, yet Michelin suggest 65 on the front.

We recently had to make a 2000mile round trip (dash) to South France (despite the current restrictions). Due to our full loading we pumped up to 80psi all round. The vehicle ran beautifully, but a real difference between the french motorways and the uk motorways. On french roads the ride was super smooth, quiet and perfect. You could cruise comfortably all day at 65-70mph. Once back on the Uk roads, it was noisy, crashy and uncomfortable! It appears the Michelins work well on the french roads, where the surfaces are very different.

Based on this we now run 65f/80r on UK roads and 80psi all round when loaded and in Europe.

Its also worth investing in a Tyre Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS). When the tyres warmed up our pressures rose to 80f/90r, peaking at 92psi with a tyre temp 42C!

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[Coolcats]

We felt the same when we picked up our new A-Class Laika Kreos last August.

It was on Michelin Agilis Camping tyres and initially the tyre pressure was set 65 front and 70 rear, however it did appear to be noisier than we expected, but mainly from engine noise, which we have discussed in a previous thread. We subsequently had SAP fit full air-suspension and this reduced some of the road noise and installed a sound-deadening mat over the engine and again this reduced some of the engine noise. Also noticed road/traffic noise was travelling through gaps between the front door windows and the inner frame. It appeared to be missing some rubber trim strips - so we installed these and this made a big difference. Added extra front floor mats, and again all the better.

All was good until we made a dealer warranty visit and were advised to increase the tyre pressures to 80psi all round. This dramatically increased the road noise, especially over 60MPH and made the ride considerably harsher, even with air suspension! Contacted Michelin and they recommended 65 front, 80 rear. 65 front makes it noticeably quieter and smoother, but makes it a bit spongier! It appears Fiat recommends 80psi all round, yet Michelin suggest 65 on the front.

We recently had to make a 2000mile round trip (dash) to South France (despite the current restrictions). Due to our full loading we pumped up to 80psi all round. The vehicle ran beautifully, but a real difference between the french motorways and the uk motorways. On french roads the ride was super smooth, quiet and perfect. You could cruise comfortably all day at 65-70mph. Once back on the Uk roads, it was noisy, crashy and uncomfortable! It appears the Michelins work well on the french roads, where the surfaces are very different.

Based on this we now run 65f/80r on UK roads and 80psi all round when loaded and in Europe.

Its also worth investing in a Tyre Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS). When the tyres warmed up our pressures rose to 80f/90r, peaking at 92psi with a tyre temp 42C!

65/80 PSI are 4.5-5.5 Bar so that's within the outlined tolerance on the Michelin website

 

[Deep Owl]

As I said my comment wouldn't be popular, try using that argument with an insurer a vehicle has recommended pressures and if you do not use these the insurance can be invalidated, along with the other issues I outlined......

Just looked at the Michelin site, a quick glance at the reviews some love them some hate them which is about the same for any product, what I would say is there are many factors involved in vehicle Noise, Vibration and Harshness (NVH).

generic pressure is not as you stated it is:-

View attachment 508626

Don’t worry, you’re not unpopular, but I checked with Michelin using my weighbridge weights and I have it in writing. I copied the email somewhere!

Interesting point about tyre temperatures. Once up to temp. they go up by almost 1 bar, all round.

 

[Coolcats]

Don’t worry, you’re not unpopular, but I checked with Michelin using my weighbridge weights and I have it in writing. I copied the email somewhere!

Interesting point about tyre temperatures. Once up to temp. they go up by almost 1 bar, all round.

You did the right thing regarding checking with Michelin there are some who do not check and it really does cause issues I have a set of tyres that run at 18 psi (1.2 bar) sticky as heck when warmed up. There is a +- variance that can be used but I think that’s more to do with personal preference than performance but it’s all subjective.

 

[Blackadder]

I also checked with Michelin, giving them the axle and overall weights (3.2t). Their reply said they were always very conservative with motorhomes as users tend to run very heavy over long distances. Probably true - I'm thinking of those people who travel with full water tanks and others, like us, that used to return from the EU with vast quantities of alcohol in glass bottles. Consequently they confirmed that that the rears should be at 5.5 bar (80psi) but that the fronts could safely be reduced by 0.5 bar to increase comfort. I'll stick to that, just in case there's ever a liability issue with a failed tyre.

 

[EuroTrotters]

from experience, I would more likely move back to Low Profile / PVC

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[Scotch mist]

But what would you do if your door sticker said 80psi (5.5 bar) all round? Would you run lower than recommended?

Yes , I do , I’m 4.5T & at the moment I’m running 70 front & 75 rear & it’s still far to hard so I will reduce a little at a time till I get to where I’m happy