Newly Installed Lithium's in elderly CBE System. (1 Viewer)

[Sheddy]

My old apparently Jurassic pair of 130 ah Hankooks have finally croaked. I am now reluctantly moving into the modern era and have purchased 2 x 100ah Lithiums (nothing to do with the recent price drop) which I need to install while we are on the road here in Germany.
I have 300w of solar with a Victron controller so no problem changing the profile to suit the upgrade, I can change the old CBE mains charger settings to Gel which closely resembles the required profile, however we rarely use hook up.
My main concern is what the vehicle system will chuck at the batteries while we're on the road. It's a 2011 Ducato so bog standard alternator.
I will install a decent B2B when we get home.
Your thoughts please.

 

[MichaelT]

Our 2019 dethleffs gave out 15 to 18 amps, we never had a B2B and only 150w solar and a 200a lithium and never ran out. You will only know when you try it.

 

[Steve N Tracy]

Our 2019 Rollerteam Pegaso with the factory standard setup charges at around 14.1v and about 18 to 20 amps drops to around 13.5v with the headlamps and wipers on.

 

[carolyn]

Eddie you need the likes of Lenny HB , autorouter and Raul to look at your post. I have highlighted them in the hope that your post doesn’t get lost, they understand all that electrickery business. Love to you and Shirley xx
Just a thought as you’re very knowledgeable on electrics anyway so need another expert if you see what I mean.

 

[AdrianChen]

Personally I would use the LA setting in the charger, simply because the gel setting will have an 8 hour absorbtion phase, which is a little OTT for Lithium - The LA setting will maybe not fully charge the batteries, but they'll be within a few % of full, fine for topping up - A Lithium friendly Victron for EG could give more charge with the correct profile when you have time to do it. We changed from the CBE charger to Victron because of the automatic de-sulphation phase some have, which puts out 15.1v when it comes on (for whatever reason that I don't know), which is too high for LiFePo4 cells.

The current split charge may be fine, depends on the wire gauge used and relay spec, which may suppress the charge current due to voltage drop. Worth a test, and if in doubt because wires get too hot you can always pull the fuse.
Worst thing is leaving the engine idling in traffic etc with empty(ish) batteries, because the alternator at low RPM's may not have sufficient air cooling from it's fan (and drawing hot air from the under-bonnet area), but still be trying to output as much as it can, so it can get a bit hot.

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[Lenny HB]

For occasional use the CBE charger will work providing it hasn't got the de-sulphation stage Adrian mentioned.
The CBE mains charger does not charge the starter battery it is done via the distribution board. It charges the starter battery when the hab battery is 13.5v or above, Lithium tend to rest at 13.3v so you will probably need a battery maintainer like an Ablemail or Batterymaster. I prefer the Ablemail with Lithium.

Your profile says you have an A Class so if a German van it probably has an uprated alternator, I wouldn't risk using the split charge relay.

 

[Sheddy]

Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated.
The van is a 3L Rapido A class of 2011.
I will leave the charger set to the La mode, and will replace it with a more suitable type when we return home next month, we rarely use hookup so no real urgency there.
I fitted a CSB 2B unit (pre recall) not long after buying the van in 2015 as there were starter battery issues when we were parked up for long stays wintering in Spain. I'll keep an eye on the starter but we are moving most days on this current trip so should be fine.
Thanks again.
Edit. I'll check the shunt voltages etc when I start up tomorrow.

 

[Lenny HB]

fitted a CSB 2B

That one isn't suitable for Lithium, similar problem to how the distribution unit works.

If you get the part number off the alternator you will be able to find out what the output is.

 

[Steve and Denise]

For simplicity Ed just disconnect your mains charger for the time being,
When I fitted our B2B in our Rapido it was a very easy job as our batteries were under the front n/s seat only a very short distance from the engine battery and I used a 5pin 40amp N/C relay to isolate the split charging/ Cbe side of things while the engine was running, worked like that for the 5 years we owned it.

 

[carolyn]

All those winters parked next to Shirley and Ed on Villasol was so much easier than trying to understand all this stuff myself

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[Sheddy]

Thanks for all the advice gratefully appreciated,
Update.
I checked the CBE 516 manuals and it is the version CBE 516-3 introduced in 2017 that includes the De-sulfation phase and has 3 profiles for La/Gel/AGM.
Ours is the older 2008 version and no De-sulfation with only 2 profiles, so set to La it will do for now if we use hookup and until we get home and by some more goodies.

While on the road yesterday for about 2 hrs the alternator was producing about 14 amps shown on the smart shunt. The 300w of solar showed a yield of 1090w and remained in Bulk all day, it was cloudy and wet later in the day.
Last night we were on a nice Stellplatz with cheap hookup so took advantage overnight and the voltage stayed around 13.2. with the SOC at 95%.
We used up the remains of the €1 investment running the Alde hot water for showers before moving on this morning, it still left some credit on the meter for the next user.
Today after about 2 hours driving we are parked up in fair weather and the solar controller has gone through absorption into float and the shunt is now hovering at 13.4v with the SOC at 100%
One further question, is there a rough standard SOC level for newly supplied "out of the box" Lithiums?

 

[ChrisL]

One further question, is there a rough standard SOC level for newly supplied "out of the box" Lithiums?

In my case it was around 30% if i've remembered correctly, it didn't take long to charge at 30A though, it would have taken more if the charger could have provided it.

 

[MichaelT]

One further question, is there a rough standard SOC level for newly supplied "out of the box" Lithiums?

I don't think so but both mine were about 50% from memory.

 

[AdrianChen]

Thanks for all the advice gratefully appreciated,
Update.
I checked the CBE 516 manuals and it is the version CBE 516-3 introduced in 2017 that includes the De-sulfation phase and has 3 profiles for La/Gel/AGM.
Ours is the older 2008 version and no De-sulfation with only 2 profiles, so set to La it will do for now if we use hookup and until we get home and by some more goodies.

While on the road yesterday for about 2 hrs the alternator was producing about 14 amps shown on the smart shunt. The 300w of solar showed a yield of 1090w and remained in Bulk all day, it was cloudy and wet later in the day.
Last night we were on a nice Stellplatz with cheap hookup so took advantage overnight and the voltage stayed around 13.2. with the SOC at 95%.
We used up the remains of the €1 investment running the Alde hot water for showers before moving on this morning, it still left some credit on the meter for the next user.
Today after about 2 hours driving we are parked up in fair weather and the solar controller has gone through absorption into float and the shunt is now hovering at 13.4v with the SOC at 100%
One further question, is there a rough standard SOC level for newly supplied "out of the box" Lithiums?

Seems good - If your fridge was running off 12v while you were driving the alternator would be powering that as well - so a reasonable output through the split charge -

I think most LiFePo4 would be supplied somewhere between 40% and 60% - Can't remember what SOC mine were now, I didn't charge or balance them before installing them, then by the next day the Solar had them fully charged - seem fine so far (2years). Im told new batteries sometimes take a few cycles to reach their full capacity, but I've never done a proper capacity test to verify that.....

If the kettle or coffee machine work, Im happy!