New van, should I get an inverter?

[Toady]

We bought our lovely Hymer van 3 years ago. I knew what I wanted but not how to install it.
I went to Vanbitz and had the following fitted:

1. Victron Multiplus Inverter/Charger 2000 w
2. Solar panel 175 w
3. Victron MPPT regulator
4. Sterling B2B 60 w
5. Victron Smart shunt

I have 2 x AMG 95 amp batteries and considered changing them to lithium but decided to see how we got on.

We use a coffee machine, hairdryer and charge up appliances and electric bikes.

We spend weeks on end off grid and guess what? Touch wood the AGMs are still going.

System so far is faultless. Eddie, Ash and his team were great.

 

[Billylou]

Hi Billylou,
Eddie has now retired so I can help you with this. If you can please PM me your email address I would be more than happy to provide any information that you need.
Kindest regards
Ash

Hi Ash, have sent PM.

 

[Peter Clark]

Hi Billylou,
Eddie has now retired so I can help you with this. If you can please PM me your email address I would be more than happy to provide any information that you need.
Kindest regards
Ash

Hello Ash - I have been looking through inverter conversations, I think you can probably help with my questions - NB: I will be traveling long term in Europe and will almost never be on EHU.

This will be my first MH, I've done quite a bit of research, but have no practical experience.

1) The typical used MH I am looking at buying has one 100w solar panel, one lead leisure battery, no inverter - I believe I will need a lot more than this.
So I'm thinking I will need to add another 1 or 2 panels, another 1 or 2 batteries and an inverter.
NB: Can I add Lithium batteries to work with the existing battery - or do I scrap the existing battery?

2) Solar panels - total wattage output: I have the impression I should be looking to have around 400 watts.
Is that in the right ball park?
What are the good quality brands worth investing in?
Or are cheaper Chinese brands perfectly good?

3) Leisure batteries - general consensus seems to be Lithium is the way to go - very expensive but with considerable benefits for power, longevity, usability and weight.
I see LiFePO4 batteries being recommended - I've read a guide on them and they seem to be best technology to go with.
However - the prices online range from around £600 up to £1,800 EACH!
What brands and price band get you a sensible battery at a sensible price?

4) Inverter size - Apart from charging devices, if I want to occasionally use a microwave or an air-fryer, or use the TV, maybe get an electric bike - what size inverter would sensible?
Is a 3000w pure sine wave a good investment - or is that over the top?
Looking at Roadpro website for example, an NDS unit is priced at £975 - is that the price point I'll be looking at?

5) I've discovered B2B in this thread, so while I'm investing in off grid power, is this a good thing to have added?

6) Then there's solar charge controllers - MPPT is mentioned.

Any general suggestions you have for what I should be looking for - or be wary of - to have decent off grid capability, would be gratefully received.

Kind regards - Peter.

 

[Chrisvh]

Purely as a non-technical user, I would say the B2B is essential, if you are spending anytime off-grid. Ours was a great investment.

 

[funflair]

Hello Ash - I have been looking through inverter conversations, I think you can probably help with my questions - NB: I will be traveling long term in Europe and will almost never be on EHU.

This will be my first MH, I've done quite a bit of research, but have no practical experience.

1) The typical used MH I am looking at buying has one 100w solar panel, one lead leisure battery, no inverter - I believe I will need a lot more than this.
So I'm thinking I will need to add another 1 or 2 panels, another 1 or 2 batteries and an inverter

NB: Can I add Lithium batteries to work with the existing battery - or do I scrap the existing battery?

Forget the original battery if you are going Lithium.

One solar panel won't get you far if you do go down the inverter route so yes add one or two more, I would leave the original on it's own controller and then add any new ones as matched panels on their own MPPT controller.

2) Solar panels - total wattage output: I have the impression I should be looking to have around 400 watts.
Is that in the right ball park?
What are the good quality brands worth investing in?
Or are cheaper Chinese brands perfectly good?

Yes 400 watts would be a decent figure and given some favourable sun you would be able to run some 240v stuff from an inverter and put the power back in again from solar so microwave no problem and likewise bike chargers, air fryer will run for longer so check it's wattage and how long it would be running, 400watts of solar can often only yield around 200watts because of clouds and sun angle so for example a 800watt air fryer would need 4 times as long to get the power back, so 30 minutes of air fryer would need 2 hours sunshine.

3) Leisure batteries - general consensus seems to be Lithium is the way to go - very expensive but with considerable benefits for power, longevity, usability and weight.
I see LiFePO4 batteries being recommended - I've read a guide on them and they seem to be best technology to go with.
However - the prices online range from around £600 up to £1,800 EACH!
What brands and price band get you a sensible battery at a sensible price?

Lithium would really be a good investment if you are using the van extensively as you get more power weight for weight and the Lithium will charge faster and more efficiently.

4) Inverter size - Apart from charging devices, if I want to occasionally use a microwave or an air-fryer, or use the TV, maybe get an electric bike - what size inverter would sensible?
Is a 3000w pure sine wave a good investment - or is that over the top?

If you have a decent amount of battery capacity and preferably Lithium then 3kw inverter will allow you to run a couple of things at the same time without worrying, OK there will be a little bit more standing draw with 3kw vs 2kw but if you get an inverter with a remote switch you will just put it off when not using it,

Looking at Roadpro website for example, an NDS unit is priced at £975 - is that the price point I'll be looking at?

5) I've discovered B2B in this thread, so while I'm investing in off grid power, is this a good thing to have added?

B2B will give you good charging rates when you are driving and is pretty much a pre requisite if you are going down the lithium route.

6) Then there's solar charge controllers - MPPT is mentioned.

Any general suggestions you have for what I should be looking for - or be wary of - to have decent off grid capability, would be gratefully received.

Kind regards - Peter.

Hi Peter

I'm not Ash but I will try to help out anyway for ease I have put answers in your quoted post.

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[RichardB]

I’ve been trawling through various Inverter threads but I’m still struggling a little to find answers to my particular questions. We are picking up our new van next month and now is the time to specify the bits and bobs. I’m not at all savvy when it comes to all things electrical but “think“ I know what we need.

Currently we have 2 x 95ah AGM batteries, 2 x 185w solar panels, Victron MPPT bluetooth regulator and battery master specified for the new van.

My wife likes the option to dry her hair and as we are not always on hook up it seems having an inverter installed would resolve this and also save us investing in an Ecoflow battery as an example.

We wouldn’t necessarily need all our 230v sockets connected but just 1.

So the questions are.

1. Is this the right way to go?
2. How big should the inverter be?
3. Do I have sufficient battery power?
4. Would a Victron Inverter with an on/off switch be advisable?
5. What don’t I know and what do I need to know?

Many thanks

Which model mppt do you have

 

[Billylou]

Which model mppt do you have

Hi RichardB, not sure as I won’t get the van until next month. All I know is that it’s a Victron Bluetooth MPPT.

 

[Peter Clark]

Forget the original battery if you are going Lithium.

One solar panel won't get you far if you do go down the inverter route so yes add one or two more, I would leave the original on it's own controller and then add any new ones as matched panels on their own MPPT controller.

Yes 400 watts would be a decent figure and given some favourable sun you would be able to run some 240v stuff from an inverter and put the power back in again from solar so microwave no problem and likewise bike chargers, air fryer will run for longer so check it's wattage and how long it would be running, 400watts of solar can often only yield around 200watts because of clouds and sun angle so for example a 800watt air fryer would need 4 times as long to get the power back, so 30 minutes of air fryer would need 2 hours sunshine.

Lithium would really be a good investment if you are using the van extensively as you get more power weight for weight and the Lithium will charge faster and more efficiently.

If you have a decent amount of battery capacity and preferably Lithium then 3kw inverter will allow you to run a couple of things at the same time without worrying, OK there will be a little bit more standing draw with 3kw vs 2kw but if you get an inverter with a remote switch you will just put it off when not using it,

B2B will give you good charging rates when you are driving and is pretty much a pre requisite if you are going down the lithium route.

Hi Peter

I'm not Ash but I will try to help out anyway for ease I have put answers in your quoted post.

Thank you taking the time to share your knowledge

 

[AshVanBitz]

Hello Ash - I have been looking through inverter conversations, I think you can probably help with my questions - NB: I will be traveling long term in Europe and will almost never be on EHU.

This will be my first MH, I've done quite a bit of research, but have no practical experience.

1) The typical used MH I am looking at buying has one 100w solar panel, one lead leisure battery, no inverter - I believe I will need a lot more than this.
So I'm thinking I will need to add another 1 or 2 panels, another 1 or 2 batteries and an inverter.
NB: Can I add Lithium batteries to work with the existing battery - or do I scrap the existing battery?

2) Solar panels - total wattage output: I have the impression I should be looking to have around 400 watts.
Is that in the right ball park?
What are the good quality brands worth investing in?
Or are cheaper Chinese brands perfectly good?

3) Leisure batteries - general consensus seems to be Lithium is the way to go - very expensive but with considerable benefits for power, longevity, usability and weight.
I see LiFePO4 batteries being recommended - I've read a guide on them and they seem to be best technology to go with.
However - the prices online range from around £600 up to £1,800 EACH!
What brands and price band get you a sensible battery at a sensible price?

4) Inverter size - Apart from charging devices, if I want to occasionally use a microwave or an air-fryer, or use the TV, maybe get an electric bike - what size inverter would sensible?
Is a 3000w pure sine wave a good investment - or is that over the top?
Looking at Roadpro website for example, an NDS unit is priced at £975 - is that the price point I'll be looking at?

5) I've discovered B2B in this thread, so while I'm investing in off grid power, is this a good thing to have added?

6) Then there's solar charge controllers - MPPT is mentioned.

Any general suggestions you have for what I should be looking for - or be wary of - to have decent off grid capability, would be gratefully received.

Kind regards - Peter.

Good evening Peter,

Apologies for not coming back to you earlier. Today like everyday has been nice and busy and I didn’t want to give you a rushed answer and thought it was best to reply when I can sit down in a more relaxed environment.

Being self dependant is one of the most popular requests for us but everyones requirements are slightly different so we suit each system to each individual.

What all systems have in common is large battery capacity and a way to recharge it efficiently. A lot of people swear by solar but this only benifits you if you are a sun chaser. When the sun is out, the solar panels are exactly what we need, but when it isn’t they do diddly squat.

When the sun is out you use considerably less power as most people spend the majority of their time outside and enjoying the weather. The small amount of power that is used throughout the day/evening is typically replenished early the next morning and you are ready to go again. You do not necessarily need a massive amount of solar to achieve this.

In the winter/colder climates you use considerably more power than you would throughout the rest of the year and at these times solar provides considerably less power. If these are the conditions you want to focus on, more is definitely what is required and making sure the panels are fitted with MPPT regulators will give you that little bit more. However solar may still not be the way to go! Having a decent battery to battery charger may be a better option. Guaranteed power at the start of you engine that is efficient, has a considerably higher and faster charge rate and it doesn’t matter what time of the year it is and/or what the weather conditions are. This is usually the option that I recommend customers to go for whether they are upgrading anything else on the vehicle or not.

Moving on to batteries, lithiums are now the most popular option due to capacity, weight, versatility. Depending on the vehicles layout you may have the option to go for one large battery or you may have to have multiple smaller batteries. Either way, bigger is generally better to avoid the constant worry of running short at the most inconsiderate times. Also as you are going down the route of inverters (which use more power) it is advisable to have a larger battery capacity.

Now for inverters, looking at what you want to run you don’t need a massive one but it also pays to future proof your purchase. Most of my customers choose the 1600W model and this works perfectly for the equipment that they use. Some want to go the next model up and choose 2400W. Both work brilliantly but it is personal preference and you need to check the wattage on you appliances so you can makes the correct choice. What I would recommend however is to go for a combined inverter/charging system as it is recommendable to update the mains charger when having lithiums and it will save you money as well. The other great feature on some combined systems it that they can also power share so when you do decide to use EHU. For example, if you are on a low amperage campsite (around 6A) and you need additional power because you want to use the kettle, a hairdryer or a coffee machine, but all the power is being consumed by your fridge and heating system, the inverter automatically cuts in to provide the additional power before shutting off when you are finished. It saves the post from tripping out and you don’t have to keep turning things on and off every time you want a coffee.

I hope this information helps but if you have any more questions please just ask.

If you would like me to provide you with some prices, please PM me your email address and the make, model and year of your motorhome and I send them over when I get into the office tomorrow morning.

Kindest regards

Ash

 

[Peter Clark]

Good evening Peter,

Apologies for not coming back to you earlier. Today like everyday has been nice and busy and I didn’t want to give you a rushed answer and thought it was best to reply when I can sit down in a more relaxed environment.

Being self dependant is one of the most popular requests for us but everyones requirements are slightly different so we suit each system to each individual.

What all systems have in common is large battery capacity and a way to recharge it efficiently. A lot of people swear by solar but this only benifits you if you are a sun chaser. When the sun is out, the solar panels are exactly what we need, but when it isn’t they do diddly squat.

When the sun is out you use considerably less power as most people spend the majority of their time outside and enjoying the weather. The small amount of power that is used throughout the day/evening is typically replenished early the next morning and you are ready to go again. You do not necessarily need a massive amount of solar to achieve this.

In the winter/colder climates you use considerably more power than you would throughout the rest of the year and at these times solar provides considerably less power. If these are the conditions you want to focus on, more is definitely what is required and making sure the panels are fitted with MPPT regulators will give you that little bit more. However solar may still not be the way to go! Having a decent battery to battery charger may be a better option. Guaranteed power at the start of you engine that is efficient, has a considerably higher and faster charge rate and it doesn’t matter what time of the year it is and/or what the weather conditions are. This is usually the option that I recommend customers to go for whether they are upgrading anything else on the vehicle or not.

Moving on to batteries, lithiums are now the most popular option due to capacity, weight, versatility. Depending on the vehicles layout you may have the option to go for one large battery or you may have to have multiple smaller batteries. Either way, bigger is generally better to avoid the constant worry of running short at the most inconsiderate times. Also as you are going down the route of inverters (which use more power) it is advisable to have a larger battery capacity.

Now for inverters, looking at what you want to run you don’t need a massive one but it also pays to future proof your purchase. Most of my customers choose the 1600W model and this works perfectly for the equipment that they use. Some want to go the next model up and choose 2400W. Both work brilliantly but it is personal preference and you need to check the wattage on you appliances so you can makes the correct choice. What I would recommend however is to go for a combined inverter/charging system as it is recommendable to update the mains charger when having lithiums and it will save you money as well. The other great feature on some combined systems it that they can also power share so when you do decide to use EHU. For example, if you are on a low amperage campsite (around 6A) and you need additional power because you want to use the kettle, a hairdryer or a coffee machine, but all the power is being consumed by your fridge and heating system, the inverter automatically cuts in to provide the additional power before shutting off when you are finished. It saves the post from tripping out and you don’t have to keep turning things on and off every time you want a coffee.

I hope this information helps but if you have any more questions please just ask.

If you would like me to provide you with some prices, please PM me your email address and the make, model and year of your motorhome and I send them over when I get into the office tomorrow morning.

Kindest regards

Ash

Thanks Ash - when I was viewing the MH this afternoon the owner received a phone call from the hospital saying his wife’s condition had worsened and she had only days to live.
Obviously that ended the viewing, poor guy was devastated, so I’m not when this option will go any further.

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[AshVanBitz]

Thanks Ash - when I was viewing the MH this afternoon the owner received a phone call from the hospital saying his wife’s condition had worsened and she had only days to live.
Obviously that ended the viewing, poor guy was devastated, so I’m not when this option will go any further.

Oh that is awful

 

[Peter Clark]

We bought our lovely Hymer van 3 years ago. I knew what I wanted but not how to install it.
I went to Vanbitz and had the following fitted:

1. Victron Multiplus Inverter/Charger 2000 w
2. Solar panel 175 w
3. Victron MPPT regulator
4. Sterling B2B 60 w
5. Victron Smart shunt

I have 2 x AMG 95 amp batteries and considered changing them to lithium but decided to see how we got on.

We use a coffee machine, hairdryer and charge up appliances and electric bikes.

We spend weeks on end off grid and guess what? Touch wood the AGMs are still going.

System so far is faultless. Eddie, Ash and his team were great.

Hello Toady - I appreciate that was three years ago and it’s all changed, but can you tell me how much that package cost at the time?
KR Peter.

 

[Lenny HB]

We bought our lovely Hymer van 3 years ago. I knew what I wanted but not how to install it.
I went to Vanbitz and had the following fitted:

1. Victron Multiplus Inverter/Charger 2000 w
2. Solar panel 175 w
3. Victron MPPT regulator
4. Sterling B2B 60 w
5. Victron Smart shunt

I have 2 x AMG 95 amp batteries and considered changing them to lithium but decided to see how we got on.

We use a coffee machine, hairdryer and charge up appliances and electric bikes.

We spend weeks on end off grid and guess what? Touch wood the AGMs are still going.

System so far is faultless. Eddie, Ash and his team were great.

Those 95ah batteries are on borrowed time with the loads you are running. You should keep the maximium discharge on lead acid batteries to the C5 which would mean a max of 500 watts even that is a bit more than the C5 rate.
I do wish installers would make it clear about the limits of lead acid batteries and their life will be severely limited with high discharge rates. Maybe they do but the customer wants to take the risk then it's down to them.

 

[eddie]

Those 95ah batteries are on borrowed time with the loads you are running. You should kept the maximium discharge on lead acid batteries to the C5 which would mean a max of 500 watts even that is a bit more than the C5 rate.
I really don't understand how professional installers don't know the basic facts about lead acid batteries.

Hang on, be fair, customer comes to us and doesn’t want to change his AGM’s until he needs to, but wants to enhance his system.

Despite your paranoia about AGM batteries, the customer is pleased with the results, as it has been doing exactly what he wants it to do:-

I have 2 x AMG 95 amp batteries and considered changing them to lithium but decided to see how we got on.

We use a coffee machine, hairdryer and charge up appliances and electric bikes.

We spend weeks on end off grid and guess what? Touch wood the AGMs are still going.

System so far is faultless. Eddie, Ash and his team were great.

Yet, despite it doing everything he wants it to do, and despite Toady acknowledging he considered Lithiums, we, the installers don’t know the basic facts about batteries!

How frustrating it must be when someone is happy with their set up, with it working perfectly for what they want, yet it contradicts your opinion.

As understanding basic facts about batteries, my first ‘proper job’ was with the Longlife Tyre & Battery Company, who had branches from Glasgow to Plymouth.

We’d make the cases, solder the plates and posts, fill with acid, seal on the lid, test and charge if we didn’t have the battery type in stock, so I know quite a bit

Lenny HB your a great guy and I have a lot of time and respect for you, but you can’t slag Van Bitz off because we didn’t bully someone into buying something they didn’t want/couldn’t afford or thought they needed at the time.

Thats just not fair

 

[Lenny HB]

Hang on, be fair, customer comes to us and doesn’t want to change his AGM’s until he needs to, but wants to enhance his system.

Despite your paranoia about AGM batteries, the customer is pleased with the results, as it has been doing exactly what he wants it to do:-

Yet, despite it doing everything he wants it to do, and despite Toady acknowledging he considered Lithiums, we, the installers don’t know the basic facts about batteries!

How frustrating it must be when someone is happy with their set up, with it working perfectly for what they want, yet it contradicts your opinion.

As understanding basic facts about batteries, my first ‘proper job’ was with the Longlife Tyre & Battery Company, who had branches from Glasgow to Plymouth.

We’d make the cases, solder the plates and posts, fill with acid, seal on the lid, test and charge if we didn’t have the battery type in stock, so I know quite a bit

Lenny HB your a great guy and I have a lot of time and respect for you, but you can’t slag Van Bitz off because we didn’t bully someone into buying something they didn’t want/couldn’t afford or thought they needed at the time.

Thats just not fair

Eddie, I wasn't slagging off Van Bitz I was referring generally to installers, to keep you a happy bunny I've edited my post.

P.S. I never mentioned AGM.

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[eddie]

Lenny HB your a great guy and I have a lot of time and respect for you

See, I was right