New to lithium.

Barriesimpson · 2025-03-08T13:36:31+0000

So I finally bit the bullet and now have a LiTime LiFePo4 280ah lithium battery on order. I had researched most of the different economy makes, and albeit this was not my first choice, it was the only one that would ship to the Canaries, so after reading more favourable reviews, went with it - €559 delivered.

So I now have a question:
The battery does not have Bluetooth connection, I understand that I can connect a shunt and have all singing and dancing information but, will the simple display that I already have in the van showing percentage of charge for both the engine and leisure batteries still work on the lithium one? My guess is yes, but want to be sure. Please don't inundate me with the usual 'you should have bought this or that etc.' as it is too late. But I would appreciate constructive criticism about the display and/or the benefits of having a shunt - bearing in mind that I am not that well versed with the information it will give me. Thank you for your help.

RowleyBirkinQC · 2025-03-08T13:49:17+0000

Total guess from a complete numpty, if the battery percentage reading on your van panel is based on the state of charge voltage of a lead acid battery, then I would guess it won’t be accurate for lithium.

Barriesimpson · 2025-03-08T13:51:24+0000

RowleyBirkinQC said:
Total guess from a complete numpty, if the battery percentage reading on your van panel is based on the state of charge voltage of a lead acid battery, then I would guess it won’t be accurate for lithium.

Fair comment. As the van is a 2024 model, could it be prepared for lithium? The chargers are.

RowleyBirkinQC · 2025-03-08T13:57:08+0000

Barriesimpson said:
Fair comment. As the van is a 2024 model, could it be prepared for lithium? The chargers are.

Good question which I can’t answer. If it’s not explicit in the motorhome manual I’d be tempted to verify with dealer/converter.

bigtwin · 2025-03-08T14:02:32+0000

Without details of what electrical kit you have onboard that’s providing your information any responses would be pure guesswork.

Ian

oldiesontour · 2025-03-08T14:06:42+0000

Probably not lead acid state of charge is usually just a volt meter this is no use for lithium as the voltage is not a good indicator of state of charge..a shunt measures everything in (amps) and out and can therefore tell you what's in the battery...a Bluetooth battery can't do this accurately as they don't see small amounts going in or out.
A good easy to fit shunt(Bluetooth and screen cost me around £40Junktec kh series and has proved extremely accurate and reliable

Lenny HB · 2025-03-08T14:07:20+0000

The panel will be useless for lithium as lithium has a very flat voltage curve i.e. the voltage doesn't drop off until they are nearly flat, when your lithium is flat the panel will still show 50%.
So you really need a shunt.

You also you need to check if your mains, solar and B2B chargers have lithium settings.

oldiesontour · 2025-03-08T14:15:13+0000

Should have added the KH series is also available as Bluetooth only (a bit cheaper) if you don't want the problem of fitting a screen

Barriesimpson · 2025-03-08T15:08:27+0000

Lenny HB said:
You also you need to check if your mains, solar and B2B chargers have lithium settings.

Yes, as I said earlier, all the chargers and solar MPPT have lithium settings. So does the air conditioner.

Barriesimpson · 2025-03-08T15:10:28+0000

Lenny HB said:
The panel will be useless for lithium as lithium has a very flat voltage curve i.e. the voltage doesn't drop off until they are nearly flat, when your lithium is flat the panel will still show 50%.
So you really need a shunt.

The panel gives percentage and volt readings, is that still not good enough?

bigtwin · 2025-03-08T15:12:16+0000

Barriesimpson said:
The panel gives percentage and volt readings, is that still not good enough?

As I said earlier, until such time as you tell us what equipment is in your van, everybody is just guessing.

Help us out here.

Ian

oldiesontour · 2025-03-08T15:12:50+0000

Barriesimpson said:
The panel gives percentage and volt readings, is that still not good enough?

Unlikely the. Percentage is most likely derived from the actual battery voltage,that is totally useless for lithium

Peavy · 2025-03-08T15:13:11+0000

If you don't have the Bluetooth connection (that surprised me a bit, I thought nowadays all BMS had BT), you definitely need a shunt, as Lenny HB said, the panel will be of no help with a LiFePo4. A good shunt would give you an accurate SOC

bigtwin · 2025-03-08T15:14:29+0000

I could make a guess too, but will refrain.

Ian

Peavy · 2025-03-08T15:17:58+0000

Barriesimpson said:
The panel gives percentage and volt readings, is that still not good enough?

Percentage is calculated for an AGM battery and it's calculated from the voltage readings (as AGM voltage drops). A LiFePo4 battery voltage is stable until the battery is dried out, so you can't use it to calculate life battery. A good shunt with LiFePo4 setting, would calculate percentage based in other parameters and give you a more accurate SOC. My panel has LiFePo4 setting but it's not good enough and I only rely on the BMS via BT, but if I would not have BT I would install a shunt with LiFePo4 abilities.

Outdoors Dad · 2025-03-08T15:20:30+0000

Does a shunt connect to a phone app?

Barriesimpson · 2025-03-08T15:21:08+0000

bigtwin said:
As I said earlier, until such time as you tell us what equipment is in your van, everybody is just guessing.

Help us out here.

Ian

Well for what it's worth, I have a Vechline 235w deep power solar panel, Victron MPPT 24v|20 controller, Nordelettronica NE 325 40a DC-DC and a Nordelettronica NE 287 mains charger. Up till now all working with 2 96ah agm batteries, soon to be replaced with the one I just bought.

bigtwin · 2025-03-08T15:21:56+0000

Barriesimpson said:
Well for what it's worth, I have a Vechline 235w deep power solar panel, Victron MPPT 24v|20 controller, Nordelectrica NE 325 40a DC-DC and a Nordelectrica NE 287 mains charger. Up till now all working with 2 96ah agm batteries, soon to be replaced with the one I just bought.

And your control panel etc?

Ian

Barriesimpson · 2025-03-08T15:22:03+0000

Peavy said:
Percentage is calculated for an AGM battery and it's calculated from the voltage readings (as AGM voltage drops). A LiFePo4 battery voltage is stable until the battery is dried out, so you can't use it to calculate life battery. A good shunt with LiFePo4 setting, would calculate percentage based in other parameters and give you a more accurate SOC.

Excellent answer, just what I was looking for. Gracias.

oldiesontour · 2025-03-08T15:24:07+0000

Outdoors Dad said:
Does a shunt connect to a phone app?

Bluetooth and OR screen (Bluetooth to app) see photo earlier

oldiesontour · 2025-03-08T15:28:13+0000

Screenshot of app

Screenshot_2025-03-08-15-27-20-135_uni.UNIB4C9F33.webp

Barriesimpson · 2025-03-08T15:28:27+0000

bigtwin said:
And your control panel etc?

Ian

The control panel is Nordelettronica NE334. I also have a Vechline 2000w pure sine converter.

jumar · 2025-03-08T15:36:49+0000

Having a Drop in Lithium can be very misleading to start with....in my opinion the installing of the battery is only half the job...
Although the battery itself is self contained and remains maintenance free it needs to be compatible with the components that charge it, cable sizes and a means to check it's SOC...
Fortunately here on fun we have experienced members that can offer the correct information.....I installed my system with their guidance throughout.

Barriesimpson · 2025-03-08T15:40:41+0000

jumar said:
Having a Drop in Lithium can be very misleading to start with....in my opinion the installing of the battery is only half the job...
Although the battery itself is self contained and remains maintenance free it needs to be compatible with the components that charge it, cable sizes and a means to check it's SOC...
Fortunately here on fun we have experienced members that can offer the correct information.....I installed my system with their guidance throughout.

Absolutely, this is why I have posted it here.

jumar · 2025-03-08T15:58:52+0000

Have you done a self installation? Fitting a Shunt isn't that challenging, it will connect to your mobile phone if you buy Victron ...you do have a mobile phone?
I know that some African states still haven't got cellular networks..

Barriesimpson · 2025-03-08T16:17:13+0000

jumar said:
Have you done a self installation? Fitting a Shunt isn't that challenging, it will connect to your mobile phone if you buy Victron ...you do have a mobile phone?
I know that some African states still haven't got cellular networks..

Funny you should say that, yesterday I was finally able to buy a mobile phone. It's a Nokia 3310, fantastic, but where do I plug it in to the van?

Lenny HB · 2025-03-08T16:17:31+0000

Barriesimpson said:
The panel gives percentage and volt readings, is that still not good enough?

Nope.

Outdoors Dad said:
Does a shunt connect to a phone app?

Yes.

jumar · 2025-03-08T16:19:41+0000

Barriesimpson said:
Funny you should say that, yesterday I was finally able to buy a mobile phone. It's a Nokia 3310, fantastic, but where do I plug it in to the van?

Connect it to the two terminals on your new lithium...you only need to do it once..

Barriesimpson · 2025-03-08T16:26:36+0000

jumar said:
Connect it to the two terminals on your new lithium...you only need to do it once..

BOOM

I now need a new phone AND a new van. I know where you live my friend.........

jumar · 2025-03-08T16:34:33+0000

Barriesimpson said:
BOOM I now need a new phone AND a new van. I know where you live my friend.........

I suppose you do...but by the time you paddle here in your dugout I'll be long gone...

New to lithium.

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