Jim
Ringleader
perfectly legal here as well Jim....if you dont mind travelling at 40mph on motorways and 20mph on other roads...locomotive restrictions apply.oh:
So if it's legal here, it's legal in Spain then?
new spanish A-frame ban!!
- Thread starter seanoo
- Start date
So if it's legal here, it's legal in Spain then?
it will be legal in spain as long as they have the same regulation ...don't know if they have though
as usual , legality in the country of registration does not grant legality elsewhere ...take speed limits for example
france has a similar regulation though
as usual , legality in the country of registration does not grant legality elsewhere ...take speed limits for example
france has a similar regulation though
Wintonian
Free Member
I thought that must be the case. I saw a van towing a caravan, which was also towing a caravan. That was here in Morbihan a few months ago. As it was on a country lane, I just assumed that he was taking advantage of the almost complete absence of the Flics on our country roads. Obviously not!
some years ago we were camped on a sea front parking near narbonne in early summer when a 6 wheeler pulled in pulling a 4 wheel trailer pulling a 7 meter caravan ,circus type advertising all over ; following was a merc van , towing a mid sized caravan , towing a box type trailer
a man , his wife and 3 teenage sons dismounted , one of the lads went to the box trailer , opened the the side doors , and 6 lively dogs leapt out , very happy with life ; boys into THEIR caravan ,donned swimming gear and headed for the water ; parents unhitched merc and went off
an hour later , parents returned one in van and one in a 2CV type beach buggy !
males in family put on working gear , stripped down buggy , painted all over
had a chat with dad , it was a one family circus [ it was his picture in clown's greasepaint on side of truck ] ; they work the summer along the french med mostly using bullrings [ no big top..not even little top ]
next morning they were off , knock on caravan door , if they parked the buggy beside us could we keep an eye on it for them ? [ eldest son 17 , so no licence as yet ]
off they went ; a few hours later mum and dad were back in the merc , quick shake of the hand and away
lovely to see families working together
a man , his wife and 3 teenage sons dismounted , one of the lads went to the box trailer , opened the the side doors , and 6 lively dogs leapt out , very happy with life ; boys into THEIR caravan ,donned swimming gear and headed for the water ; parents unhitched merc and went off
an hour later , parents returned one in van and one in a 2CV type beach buggy !
males in family put on working gear , stripped down buggy , painted all over
had a chat with dad , it was a one family circus [ it was his picture in clown's greasepaint on side of truck ] ; they work the summer along the french med mostly using bullrings [ no big top..not even little top ]
next morning they were off , knock on caravan door , if they parked the buggy beside us could we keep an eye on it for them ? [ eldest son 17 , so no licence as yet ]
off they went ; a few hours later mum and dad were back in the merc , quick shake of the hand and away
lovely to see families working together
hi everyone, going to try and put all this on here!! what i've done is typed out the spanish on each page and then put it through a online translator and the english is at the bottom of every page (4pages)
i'm also going to try and attach photos of the originals so you can see the pictures , not sure if it will work and if it doesnt then i'm sure one of you can put me right. the translation isnt perfect and i know someone will find a better one but its the best i can do from here. all the best sean.
-page 1
ASUNTO: REMOLQUE DE UN VEHICULO POR MEDIO DE UNA AUTO-CARAVANA
En cumplimiento a su correo electrinico de fecha 01 del presente mes de marzo, dimanante del fax de la Agregaduria de la
Embajada de Espana en Paris, num. 49, de fecha 22/02/10, a traves de la cual un ciudadano frances solicita informacion
relativa a la legislacion aplicable en Espana para circular con una autocaravana que "remolca" un vehiculo marca "Secma,
modelo Fun Tech", el cual iria enganchado a dicha autocaravana por medio de una barra rigida sujeta a chasis del vehiculo,
circulando unicamente sobre las dos ruedas de atras al ir las de delante suspendidas, (de forma similar a la reflejada en
la foto inserta a continuacion), por esta Escuela de Trafico se emite el siguiente INFORME;
El Real Decreto 2822/1998, de 23 de diciembre (BOE num. 22, de 26 de enero de 1.999), por el que se aprueba el Reglamento
General de Vehiculos, en su articulo 9.3) - Conjuntos de vehiculos-, DETERMINA:
"Los vehiculos de motor no podran remolcar a otro vehiculo de motor, salvo en el caso de que este se encuentre accidentado
o averiado y no pueda ser arrastrado por otro especificamente destinado a este fin, supuesto en que esta permitido el
arrastre hasta la localidad o lugar mas proximo donde pueda quedar convenientemente inmovilizado y sin entorpecer la
circulacion, y siempre que no se circule por autopistas ni autovias".
SUBJECT: TOWING OF A VEHICLE BY MEANS OF AN AUTO-CARAVAN
Pursuant to your desktop email dated 01 March this month, arising from the facsimile of the Attaché of
Spanish Embassy in Paris, no. 49, dated 22/02/10, through which a French citizen information requests
on the legislation applicable in Spain to travel with a motorhome that "tows" a vehicle marked "Secman,
Fun Tech model, which coupled to the motor home would go through a rigid bar attached to the chassis of the vehicle,
ply only on the two back wheels to go the front suspended (similar to that reflected in
insert the photo below), so Traffic School Report is issued following;
The Royal Decree 2822/1998 of 23 December (BOE no. 22, 26 January 1999), which approves the Regulation
Car General, in Article 9.3) - Vehicle Sets-FINDS:"The motor vehicle may not tow another motor vehicle, except that this is rough
or damaged and can not be dragged by another specifically for this purpose, provided that this allowed
drag to the location or the nearest place where it can be conveniently immobilized and not hinder the
circulation, and if not traveling on highways and motorway network.
page 2
Teniendo en cuenta que "el remolque de un vehiculo, como accion, significa el arrastre del mismo por otro", debemos
acudir al Real Decreto 1428/2003, de 21 de Noviembre (BOE. num. 306, de 23/12/03), por el que se aprueba el
Reglamento General de Circulacion, el cual en su articulo 130.5), viene a confirmar lo ya expuesto en el Reglamento
General de Vehiculos, al establecer:
"El remolque de un vehiculo averiado o accidentado solo debera realizarse por otro especificamente destinado a
este fin. Excepcionalmente, y siempre en condiciones de seguaridad, se permitira el arrastre por otros
vehiculos, pero solo hasta el lugar mas proximo donde pueda quedar convenientemente inmovilizado y sin entorpecer
la circulacion. En ningun caso sera aplicable dicha excepcion en las autopistas o autovias".
La Guia Codicicada de Infracciones de la Direccion General de Trafico, en su edicion correspondiente al mes
de Noviembre de 2.008, en el mentado articulo 130.5), recoge como infraccion, tras remision a dicho articulo por
el 9.3) del Reglamento de Vehiculos:
Establecido el hecho de que, de conformidad con la normativa espanola antes referida, no esta permitido el
que un vehiculo de motor remolque a otro, y mas concretamente por medio de una autocaravana, que es lo
que pretente el ciudadano frances, debemos acudir, para una mayor informacion el respecto, a lo dispuesto
por la Direccion General de Trafico, en lo sucesivo DGT, en su INSTRUCCION 08/V-74, de fecha 28 de
enero de 2.008 Asunto: Autocaravanas, a traves de la cual se procedio a recopilar e interpretar en un unico
documento todos aquellos aspectos normativos que, relacionados con el autocaravanismo, se recogen en
la legislacion sobre trafico y circulacion de vehiculos a motor, en su punto 8,-Transporte de vehiculos auxiliares,
determinada que:
"Es muy frecuente el transporte por las autocaravanas de vehiculos auxiliares normalmente bicicleta,
un ciclomotor o una motocicleta de pequena cilindrada. Esta practica esta autorizada siempre que se
utilice un portabicicletas homologado o una plataforma destinada a esta finalidad y, cuando sobresalga
de la proyeccion en planta de la autocaravana, se cumplan los siguientes requistos conforme a lo dispuesto
en el articulos 15 del Reglamento General de Circulacion.
Que sobresalga de la proyeccion en planta de la autocaravana, por la parte posterior, hasta un 10% de su
longitud y si fuera un solo vehiculo (carga indivisible), un 15%.
Que se adoptem todas las precauciones convenientes para evitar danos o peligros a lost demas usuarios
de la via publica, debiendo ir resguardada la extremidad saliente para aminorar los efectos de un roce o
choque posibles.
------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------
Given that "a vehicle trailer, as action, drag it means the other", we
go to Royal Decree 1428/2003 of 21 November (BOE. no. 306 from 23/12/03) for approving the
Rules of the road, which in article 130.5), confirms what is stated in Regulation
Car General, to establish:
"The towing of a vehicle breakdown or accident shall only be performed by another specifically for
this purpose. Exceptionally, and always able to seguaridad, be allowed to drag other
vehicles, but only up to the nearest location where it can be conveniently and without disrupting plant
circulation. In no event shall apply this exception in the highway or motorway.
The Guide Codicicada Violations of the Traffic Department, in its edition for the month
November 2008, in the article mented 130.5), contains such breach, after reference to that article by
9.3) of the Rules of Vehicles:
Established the fact that, in accordance with Spanish legislation referred to above, is not allowed
a motor vehicle towing another, and more specifically by means of a motor home, which is what
they intend on French citizens, we must look for a more information respect to the provisions
by the Direccion General de Trafico, hereinafter DGT, in your instructions 08/V-74, dated 28
January 2008 Subject: Motor homes, through which they proceeded to collect and interpret in a single
document all regulatory aspects related to the campers, was found in
traffic laws and motor vehicle traffic, in point 8, "Transportation of vehicles ancillary
determined that
"It is very common transport auxiliary motor caravans of vehicles normally cycling
a moped or small motorcycle engines. This practice is permitted provided that
use an approved carrier or a platform for this purpose and, where protruding
of screening in the motor plant, to meet the following Réquista accordance
in Article 15 of the Rules of the road.
Projection from the projection in the motor plant, on the back, up to 10% of
length and if it were a single vehicle (indivisible load), 15%.
Adopt me that all appropriate precautions to prevent damage or danger to other users lost
road, the limb must be protected overhang to lessen the effects of friction or
possible collision
page 3
Debera senalizarse por medio de la senal V-20 a que se refiere el articulo 173 y cuyas carateristicas
se establecen en el anexo XI del Reglamento General de Vehiculos. Esta senal se colocara en el
extremo posterior de la carga de manera que quede constantemente perpendicular al eje del vehiculo.
Se han formulado tambien consultas en relacion con la posibilidad de que una autocaravana circule
remolcando a un turismo, DICHA POSIBILIDAD ESTA PROHIBIDA en el articulo 9.3 del Reglamento
General de Vehiculos que no permite la circulacion de un vehiculo a motor arrastrando a otro, salvo
que ese se encuentre averiado o accidentado y no pueda ser arrastrado por otro especificamente
destinado a tal fin, en cuyo caso se permite su arrastre hasta la localidad o lugar mas proximo donde
pueda puedar inmovilizado sin entorpecer la circulacion y siempre que no circule por autopista o
autovia.
Sin perjuicio de lo anterior, la circulacion de un conjunto de vehiculos integrado por una autocaravana
y un remolque o semirremolque sobre el cual se transporte otro vehiculo, esta permitida si el conjunto
reune las condiciones para la cirulacion por las via publicas y esta homologado conforme a las
Directivas 70/156/CEE y 94/20/CEE y ademas no supere la longitud maxima autorizada para estos
conjuntos que es de 18,75 metros para los remolques y 16,50 metros para los semirremolques.
De igual manera, al hilo de la pregunta formulada por el ciudadano frances, cabe destacar que de
conformidad con lo dispuesto por la DGT, en su INSTRUCCION 02/S-56, de fecha 22 de enero
de 2.002, sobre "Improcedencia de formulacion de denuncias por utilizacion de disportivos de
elevacion y arrastreestamos refiriendo, no le es de aplicacion a los portavehiculos, ya que
segun dicha Instruccion: de vehiculos para su traslado en trayectos de largo recorrido", contempla que
la prohibicion a la que nos
------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -
They must be signposted by the sign V-20 referred to Article 173 and whose characteristics
are set out in Annex XI of the Regulations on Vehicles. This sign will be placed in the
rear cargo so that it is constantly perpendicular to the axis of the vehicle.
They have also made inquiries in relation to the possibility that a motor to circulate
towing a passenger car, this possibility is prohibited by Article 9.3 of Regulation
General Car that does not allow the movement of a motor vehicle, dragging another, unless
that is damaged or injured and can not be dragged by another specifically
for that purpose, in which case they are allowed to drag to the closest town or place where
can be fixed without hindering the circulation and if not traveling on highway or
motorway.
Notwithstanding the foregoing, the circulation of a combination of vehicles composed of a motorhome
and a trailer or semitrailer which is carried on another vehicle, is permitted if all
meets the conditions for cirulacion by public roads and approved in accordance with the
Directives 70/156/EEC and 94/20/EC and also does not exceed the maximum length allowed for these
joint is 18.75 meters to 16.50 meters for trailers and semi-trailers
Similarly, in line with the question posed by French citizens, it should be noted that
accordance with the DGT, in your instructions 02/S-56, dated January 22
of 2002, on "permissible to file complaints by utilization of disported
arrastreestamos elevation and talking, it is not apply to carriers, because
according to the Instruction: a car for transportation in long-haul routes, provided that
prohibition to which we
page 4"
....la prohibicion establecida en el citado articulo 9.3) del Reglamento General de Vehiculos
se refiere a los vehiculos de motor no espcificamente destinados a este fin, que podran remolcar,
unicamente a otro averiado o accidentado en las condiciones y con las limitaciones que se
expresan en dicho precepto.
En consecuencia los vehiculos especialmente disenados y concebidos para realizar estas
funciones, como es el caso de los camiones portavehiculos que llevan instalado un dispositivo
de elevacion y arrastre, pueden remolcar un vehiculo de manera que uno de los ejes repose
sobre la calzada y, por lo tanto, no deberan ser objeto de denuncia aunque se realice el
traslado en trayectos de largo recorrido".
Del analisis legislativo referido al tema en cuestion, debemos concluir por consiguiente
que el hecho de circular una caravana remolcando un vehiculo, el cual iria enganchado
a la caravana por medio de una barra rigida sujeta al chasis del vehiculo, circulando
unicamente sobre las dos ruedas de atras al ir las de delante suspendidas, aunque el
sistema de alumbrado vaya conectado al vehiculo tractor, NO ESTA PERMITIDA EN LA
LEGISLACION ESPANOLA.
---------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -
".... The prohibition contained in the said Article 9.3) of the Regulations on Vehicles
refers to motor vehicles espcificamente not intended for that purpose, which may tow
only to a breakdown or accident on the conditions and limitations that
expressed in that provision.Consequently, the specially designed vehicles and designed to perform these
functions, such as Carriers truck carrying a device installed
lift and drag, can tow a vehicle so that one of the main rest
on the road and, therefore, should not be denounced but is performed
service in long-haul routes. "
Referred to the legislative analysis of the topic in question, we must conclude therefore
that the failure to move a vehicle towing a caravan, which combined iria
the caravan by a rigid bar attached to the vehicle body, circulating
only on the two back wheels to go the front suspended, although the
lighting system be connected to the tractor vehicle, ARE NOT PERMITTED IN THE
SPANISH LEGISLATION
i'm also going to try and attach photos of the originals so you can see the pictures , not sure if it will work and if it doesnt then i'm sure one of you can put me right. the translation isnt perfect and i know someone will find a better one but its the best i can do from here. all the best sean.
-page 1
ASUNTO: REMOLQUE DE UN VEHICULO POR MEDIO DE UNA AUTO-CARAVANA
En cumplimiento a su correo electrinico de fecha 01 del presente mes de marzo, dimanante del fax de la Agregaduria de la
Embajada de Espana en Paris, num. 49, de fecha 22/02/10, a traves de la cual un ciudadano frances solicita informacion
relativa a la legislacion aplicable en Espana para circular con una autocaravana que "remolca" un vehiculo marca "Secma,
modelo Fun Tech", el cual iria enganchado a dicha autocaravana por medio de una barra rigida sujeta a chasis del vehiculo,
circulando unicamente sobre las dos ruedas de atras al ir las de delante suspendidas, (de forma similar a la reflejada en
la foto inserta a continuacion), por esta Escuela de Trafico se emite el siguiente INFORME;
El Real Decreto 2822/1998, de 23 de diciembre (BOE num. 22, de 26 de enero de 1.999), por el que se aprueba el Reglamento
General de Vehiculos, en su articulo 9.3) - Conjuntos de vehiculos-, DETERMINA:
"Los vehiculos de motor no podran remolcar a otro vehiculo de motor, salvo en el caso de que este se encuentre accidentado
o averiado y no pueda ser arrastrado por otro especificamente destinado a este fin, supuesto en que esta permitido el
arrastre hasta la localidad o lugar mas proximo donde pueda quedar convenientemente inmovilizado y sin entorpecer la
circulacion, y siempre que no se circule por autopistas ni autovias".
SUBJECT: TOWING OF A VEHICLE BY MEANS OF AN AUTO-CARAVAN
Pursuant to your desktop email dated 01 March this month, arising from the facsimile of the Attaché of
Spanish Embassy in Paris, no. 49, dated 22/02/10, through which a French citizen information requests
on the legislation applicable in Spain to travel with a motorhome that "tows" a vehicle marked "Secman,
Fun Tech model, which coupled to the motor home would go through a rigid bar attached to the chassis of the vehicle,
ply only on the two back wheels to go the front suspended (similar to that reflected in
insert the photo below), so Traffic School Report is issued following;
The Royal Decree 2822/1998 of 23 December (BOE no. 22, 26 January 1999), which approves the Regulation
Car General, in Article 9.3) - Vehicle Sets-FINDS:"The motor vehicle may not tow another motor vehicle, except that this is rough
or damaged and can not be dragged by another specifically for this purpose, provided that this allowed
drag to the location or the nearest place where it can be conveniently immobilized and not hinder the
circulation, and if not traveling on highways and motorway network.
page 2
Teniendo en cuenta que "el remolque de un vehiculo, como accion, significa el arrastre del mismo por otro", debemos
acudir al Real Decreto 1428/2003, de 21 de Noviembre (BOE. num. 306, de 23/12/03), por el que se aprueba el
Reglamento General de Circulacion, el cual en su articulo 130.5), viene a confirmar lo ya expuesto en el Reglamento
General de Vehiculos, al establecer:
"El remolque de un vehiculo averiado o accidentado solo debera realizarse por otro especificamente destinado a
este fin. Excepcionalmente, y siempre en condiciones de seguaridad, se permitira el arrastre por otros
vehiculos, pero solo hasta el lugar mas proximo donde pueda quedar convenientemente inmovilizado y sin entorpecer
la circulacion. En ningun caso sera aplicable dicha excepcion en las autopistas o autovias".
La Guia Codicicada de Infracciones de la Direccion General de Trafico, en su edicion correspondiente al mes
de Noviembre de 2.008, en el mentado articulo 130.5), recoge como infraccion, tras remision a dicho articulo por
el 9.3) del Reglamento de Vehiculos:
Establecido el hecho de que, de conformidad con la normativa espanola antes referida, no esta permitido el
que un vehiculo de motor remolque a otro, y mas concretamente por medio de una autocaravana, que es lo
que pretente el ciudadano frances, debemos acudir, para una mayor informacion el respecto, a lo dispuesto
por la Direccion General de Trafico, en lo sucesivo DGT, en su INSTRUCCION 08/V-74, de fecha 28 de
enero de 2.008 Asunto: Autocaravanas, a traves de la cual se procedio a recopilar e interpretar en un unico
documento todos aquellos aspectos normativos que, relacionados con el autocaravanismo, se recogen en
la legislacion sobre trafico y circulacion de vehiculos a motor, en su punto 8,-Transporte de vehiculos auxiliares,
determinada que:
"Es muy frecuente el transporte por las autocaravanas de vehiculos auxiliares normalmente bicicleta,
un ciclomotor o una motocicleta de pequena cilindrada. Esta practica esta autorizada siempre que se
utilice un portabicicletas homologado o una plataforma destinada a esta finalidad y, cuando sobresalga
de la proyeccion en planta de la autocaravana, se cumplan los siguientes requistos conforme a lo dispuesto
en el articulos 15 del Reglamento General de Circulacion.
Que sobresalga de la proyeccion en planta de la autocaravana, por la parte posterior, hasta un 10% de su
longitud y si fuera un solo vehiculo (carga indivisible), un 15%.
Que se adoptem todas las precauciones convenientes para evitar danos o peligros a lost demas usuarios
de la via publica, debiendo ir resguardada la extremidad saliente para aminorar los efectos de un roce o
choque posibles.
------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------
Given that "a vehicle trailer, as action, drag it means the other", we
go to Royal Decree 1428/2003 of 21 November (BOE. no. 306 from 23/12/03) for approving the
Rules of the road, which in article 130.5), confirms what is stated in Regulation
Car General, to establish:
"The towing of a vehicle breakdown or accident shall only be performed by another specifically for
this purpose. Exceptionally, and always able to seguaridad, be allowed to drag other
vehicles, but only up to the nearest location where it can be conveniently and without disrupting plant
circulation. In no event shall apply this exception in the highway or motorway.
The Guide Codicicada Violations of the Traffic Department, in its edition for the month
November 2008, in the article mented 130.5), contains such breach, after reference to that article by
9.3) of the Rules of Vehicles:
Established the fact that, in accordance with Spanish legislation referred to above, is not allowed
a motor vehicle towing another, and more specifically by means of a motor home, which is what
they intend on French citizens, we must look for a more information respect to the provisions
by the Direccion General de Trafico, hereinafter DGT, in your instructions 08/V-74, dated 28
January 2008 Subject: Motor homes, through which they proceeded to collect and interpret in a single
document all regulatory aspects related to the campers, was found in
traffic laws and motor vehicle traffic, in point 8, "Transportation of vehicles ancillary
determined that
"It is very common transport auxiliary motor caravans of vehicles normally cycling
a moped or small motorcycle engines. This practice is permitted provided that
use an approved carrier or a platform for this purpose and, where protruding
of screening in the motor plant, to meet the following Réquista accordance
in Article 15 of the Rules of the road.
Projection from the projection in the motor plant, on the back, up to 10% of
length and if it were a single vehicle (indivisible load), 15%.
Adopt me that all appropriate precautions to prevent damage or danger to other users lost
road, the limb must be protected overhang to lessen the effects of friction or
possible collision
page 3
Debera senalizarse por medio de la senal V-20 a que se refiere el articulo 173 y cuyas carateristicas
se establecen en el anexo XI del Reglamento General de Vehiculos. Esta senal se colocara en el
extremo posterior de la carga de manera que quede constantemente perpendicular al eje del vehiculo.
Se han formulado tambien consultas en relacion con la posibilidad de que una autocaravana circule
remolcando a un turismo, DICHA POSIBILIDAD ESTA PROHIBIDA en el articulo 9.3 del Reglamento
General de Vehiculos que no permite la circulacion de un vehiculo a motor arrastrando a otro, salvo
que ese se encuentre averiado o accidentado y no pueda ser arrastrado por otro especificamente
destinado a tal fin, en cuyo caso se permite su arrastre hasta la localidad o lugar mas proximo donde
pueda puedar inmovilizado sin entorpecer la circulacion y siempre que no circule por autopista o
autovia.
Sin perjuicio de lo anterior, la circulacion de un conjunto de vehiculos integrado por una autocaravana
y un remolque o semirremolque sobre el cual se transporte otro vehiculo, esta permitida si el conjunto
reune las condiciones para la cirulacion por las via publicas y esta homologado conforme a las
Directivas 70/156/CEE y 94/20/CEE y ademas no supere la longitud maxima autorizada para estos
conjuntos que es de 18,75 metros para los remolques y 16,50 metros para los semirremolques.
De igual manera, al hilo de la pregunta formulada por el ciudadano frances, cabe destacar que de
conformidad con lo dispuesto por la DGT, en su INSTRUCCION 02/S-56, de fecha 22 de enero
de 2.002, sobre "Improcedencia de formulacion de denuncias por utilizacion de disportivos de
elevacion y arrastreestamos refiriendo, no le es de aplicacion a los portavehiculos, ya que
segun dicha Instruccion: de vehiculos para su traslado en trayectos de largo recorrido", contempla que
la prohibicion a la que nos
------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -
They must be signposted by the sign V-20 referred to Article 173 and whose characteristics
are set out in Annex XI of the Regulations on Vehicles. This sign will be placed in the
rear cargo so that it is constantly perpendicular to the axis of the vehicle.
They have also made inquiries in relation to the possibility that a motor to circulate
towing a passenger car, this possibility is prohibited by Article 9.3 of Regulation
General Car that does not allow the movement of a motor vehicle, dragging another, unless
that is damaged or injured and can not be dragged by another specifically
for that purpose, in which case they are allowed to drag to the closest town or place where
can be fixed without hindering the circulation and if not traveling on highway or
motorway.
Notwithstanding the foregoing, the circulation of a combination of vehicles composed of a motorhome
and a trailer or semitrailer which is carried on another vehicle, is permitted if all
meets the conditions for cirulacion by public roads and approved in accordance with the
Directives 70/156/EEC and 94/20/EC and also does not exceed the maximum length allowed for these
joint is 18.75 meters to 16.50 meters for trailers and semi-trailers
Similarly, in line with the question posed by French citizens, it should be noted that
accordance with the DGT, in your instructions 02/S-56, dated January 22
of 2002, on "permissible to file complaints by utilization of disported
arrastreestamos elevation and talking, it is not apply to carriers, because
according to the Instruction: a car for transportation in long-haul routes, provided that
prohibition to which we
page 4"
....la prohibicion establecida en el citado articulo 9.3) del Reglamento General de Vehiculos
se refiere a los vehiculos de motor no espcificamente destinados a este fin, que podran remolcar,
unicamente a otro averiado o accidentado en las condiciones y con las limitaciones que se
expresan en dicho precepto.
En consecuencia los vehiculos especialmente disenados y concebidos para realizar estas
funciones, como es el caso de los camiones portavehiculos que llevan instalado un dispositivo
de elevacion y arrastre, pueden remolcar un vehiculo de manera que uno de los ejes repose
sobre la calzada y, por lo tanto, no deberan ser objeto de denuncia aunque se realice el
traslado en trayectos de largo recorrido".
Del analisis legislativo referido al tema en cuestion, debemos concluir por consiguiente
que el hecho de circular una caravana remolcando un vehiculo, el cual iria enganchado
a la caravana por medio de una barra rigida sujeta al chasis del vehiculo, circulando
unicamente sobre las dos ruedas de atras al ir las de delante suspendidas, aunque el
sistema de alumbrado vaya conectado al vehiculo tractor, NO ESTA PERMITIDA EN LA
LEGISLACION ESPANOLA.
---------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -
".... The prohibition contained in the said Article 9.3) of the Regulations on Vehicles
refers to motor vehicles espcificamente not intended for that purpose, which may tow
only to a breakdown or accident on the conditions and limitations that
expressed in that provision.Consequently, the specially designed vehicles and designed to perform these
functions, such as Carriers truck carrying a device installed
lift and drag, can tow a vehicle so that one of the main rest
on the road and, therefore, should not be denounced but is performed
service in long-haul routes. "
Referred to the legislative analysis of the topic in question, we must conclude therefore
that the failure to move a vehicle towing a caravan, which combined iria
the caravan by a rigid bar attached to the vehicle body, circulating
only on the two back wheels to go the front suspended, although the
lighting system be connected to the tractor vehicle, ARE NOT PERMITTED IN THE
SPANISH LEGISLATION
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ok , so not specifically aimed at toads..... only towtrucks to tow other vehicle except if the vehicle is broken down then it can be towed to nearest point of repair [but not on a main road or motorway ]
pretty comprehensive if I read it correctly
pretty comprehensive if I read it correctly
scotjimland
LIFE MEMBER
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Thanks for taking the time and trouble to post the translation with the original document..
It is very clear that towing a car (toad) with all wheels on the road is prohibited unless for recovery .. the document pictures leave no room for ambiguity.
EDIT
could you possible upload the scanned document to our downloads section ?
cheers
It is very clear that towing a car (toad) with all wheels on the road is prohibited unless for recovery .. the document pictures leave no room for ambiguity.
EDIT
could you possible upload the scanned document to our downloads section ?
cheers
Last edited:
Wintonian
Free Member
Very interesting.
I have turned the pictures round and created a single Acrobat document with them. It is too big to be accepted by the upload facility, of course (as were each of the original pics). But I have placed it here: Link Removed
No doubt Admin can upload the file to the server.
I am sure that everyone has Acrobat Reader installed!
I have turned the pictures round and created a single Acrobat document with them. It is too big to be accepted by the upload facility, of course (as were each of the original pics). But I have placed it here: Link Removed
No doubt Admin can upload the file to the server.
I am sure that everyone has Acrobat Reader installed!
scotjimland
LIFE MEMBER
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Lumbago
Free Member
Thanks for news - albeit bad. We crossed over into Spain on 26 March and passed several police cars at the border and on our journey to Blanes. But they just looked at our A frame and did not stop us. Since Blanes we have continued to Benicassim but with Mrs. Lumbago driving the car separately. The few extra Euros on fuel is much less than the fine.
Momo
Free Member
Sorry for delay in replying.
Spoke to Lorenzo Ruiz Toribio (President of Paca) and he emailed me the exact same document that sean (?) posted but with the added signature of "Jose Luis Navarro Belmonte, Director-Colonel, Merida 8th March 2010".
I pointed out to Lorenzo that this was not a new law it was just a letter written by somebody (who wrote it? who signed it? from which department?) in reply to a French citizen's query. Infact it is not worth the paper it is written on as the only signature of authority is that of "Pere Navarro Olivella" the head of the traffic department. Also to be legal it should be on DGT paper with the DGT crest embossed.
I reckon that J.L. Navarro Belmonte is a Colonel in the Civil Guards posted in Merida - absolutely nothing to do with the DGT from where all traffic and road use legislation is published. (I am still trying to locate this gentleman and will post results when I have done so).
Lorenzo informed me that there will be a meeting sometime soon but he was unable to give a date, regarding legislation for Motorhomes and he will keep me informed of results.
Regarding towing, the only legality is that set out in the Directive 94/20/CE of 30.05.1994 which all member states must enforce.
Link Removed
Regards, Momo
Spoke to Lorenzo Ruiz Toribio (President of Paca) and he emailed me the exact same document that sean (?) posted but with the added signature of "Jose Luis Navarro Belmonte, Director-Colonel, Merida 8th March 2010".
I pointed out to Lorenzo that this was not a new law it was just a letter written by somebody (who wrote it? who signed it? from which department?) in reply to a French citizen's query. Infact it is not worth the paper it is written on as the only signature of authority is that of "Pere Navarro Olivella" the head of the traffic department. Also to be legal it should be on DGT paper with the DGT crest embossed.
I reckon that J.L. Navarro Belmonte is a Colonel in the Civil Guards posted in Merida - absolutely nothing to do with the DGT from where all traffic and road use legislation is published. (I am still trying to locate this gentleman and will post results when I have done so).
Lorenzo informed me that there will be a meeting sometime soon but he was unable to give a date, regarding legislation for Motorhomes and he will keep me informed of results.
Regarding towing, the only legality is that set out in the Directive 94/20/CE of 30.05.1994 which all member states must enforce.
Link Removed
Regards, Momo
Snowbird
LIFE MEMBER
So do we or don`t we?????
Here was me thinking of selling my toad.
I supose if I hang on to it for another year it won`t depreciate any more,a 21 year old Fiat Panda is worth much the same as a 20 year old one.
Come to think of it what would Spanish plod say if I unhooked it and handed him the keys and said OK its yours.
Here was me thinking of selling my toad.
I supose if I hang on to it for another year it won`t depreciate any more,a 21 year old Fiat Panda is worth much the same as a 20 year old one.
Come to think of it what would Spanish plod say if I unhooked it and handed him the keys and said OK its yours.
vwalan
Funster
thanks momo .i have written to pierre navarro and still havent recieved an answer. i use his signed letter you posted the other year with great success . must say i dont pull a toad . but other things in the letter work fine. if i did want to take a toad i would they would get fed up of me as i would definately not pay a fine .
thanks momo for your quick response as always .cheers alan.
thanks momo for your quick response as always .cheers alan.
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hi all, below is an email from graham watson mep which i received yesterday, regards sean.
Dear Mr Magee,
Thank you for your email of 3 June regarding the use of "A-Frames" on Spanish roads.
There certainly seems to be a great deal of confusion surrounding this issue so I have written to the Spanish Transport Minister and the European Commissioner for Transport for clarification. I shall be pleased to revert to you once I have received a response.
Yours sincerely,
Graham Watson MEP
Liberal Democrat Member of the European Parliament for South West England and Gibraltar
www.grahamwatsonmep.org
Dear Mr Magee,
Thank you for your email of 3 June regarding the use of "A-Frames" on Spanish roads.
There certainly seems to be a great deal of confusion surrounding this issue so I have written to the Spanish Transport Minister and the European Commissioner for Transport for clarification. I shall be pleased to revert to you once I have received a response.
Yours sincerely,
Graham Watson MEP
Liberal Democrat Member of the European Parliament for South West England and Gibraltar
www.grahamwatsonmep.org
Sens of freedom is being taken away by faceless bureaucratsTime to give this motorhome lark up soon I think.
Can't tow a car, can't carry a motorbike in the garage.:Angry:
Can't wildcamp, can't go into towns, height barriers, speed and lane restrictions, fuel prices
For me its about traveling and seeing the world and £30k to £50k for a decent m/home buys a lot of traveling. The sense of freedom is rapidly being taken away by the faceless bureaucrats, there are plenty of other ways to travel. :Angry:
Can't tow a car, (are these laws not for the safety of all the population not just motor homers, I know nothing about A frames but what is the problem with using a trailer) can't carry a motorbike in the garage. (carrying a bike in the back of what is a sandwich board constructed vehicle could lead to disaster for other road users and the occupants of the vehicle) Can't wild camp (see earlier posts motor homes are but a small part of the UK population) can't go into towns , (Very large motor homes can be a real pain in small towns and villages same as lorries are, this is why they are banned) height barriers, (only way to defeat continual abuse by motor homes of car parks and beauty spots) speed and lane restrictions, (What lane restrictions? What speed do you want to travel at) fuel prices (surly this is personal choice nobody forced you to drive a motor home. If you would prefer to use another travel option go for it. Planes boats trains are all available to someone with 30k to spend but they all have their failings)
Jim
Ringleader
Buttons, carrying a lashed down motorcycle in a motorhome garage is not as dangerous as you imply. What about the 40 tons on most lorries, the walls are nylon and canvas. In a crash what makes a lashed down motorbike in a garage any more dangerous that your lashed down water heater, petrol tank, refrigerator, solar panel, gas bottle etc, anyway, we can see how you carry your motorbike, now that is dangerous
Link Removed
I cant think of a single logical answer to that Jim but someone has obviously carried out a lot of research before banning it....surely.Buttons, carrying a lashed down motorcycle in a motorhome garage is not as dangerous as you imply. What about the 40 tons on most lorries, the walls are nylon and canvas. In a crash what makes a lashed down motorbike in a garage any more dangerous that your lashed down water heater, petrol tank, refrigerator, solar panel, gas bottle etc, anyway, we can see how you carry your motorbike, now that is dangerous
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Is this the first picture of your new van, I just new it was a VW:thumb:
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Jim
Ringleader
Has it been banned? I thought having a bike in the back might make it a "Living Van" which has MOT and Insurance implications, if its banned its a new one on me.
Originally Posted by Forestboy Link Removed
Time to give this motorhome lark up soon I think.
Can't tow a car, can't carry a motorbike in the garage.:Angry:
Can't wildcamp, can't go into towns, height barriers, speed and lane restrictions, fuel prices
Have no idea either Jim, I was making reference to Forestboys quote not making a factual statement. Just shows you can’t believe everything that you read on a forum.:Blush:
scotjimland
LIFE MEMBER
- Jul 25, 2007
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Originally Posted by Forestboy Link Removed
Time to give this motorhome lark up soon I think.
Can't tow a car, can't carry a motorbike in the garage.:Angry:
Can't wildcamp, can't go into towns, height barriers, speed and lane restrictions, fuel prices
Have no idea either Jim, I was making reference to Forestboys quote not making a factual statement. Just shows you can’t believe everything that you read on a forum.:Blush:
.. this post from Dick on RVOC explains in some detail about a 'living van"
Thanks Jim and Jim, this is my first insight to Living Van but it looks very interesting but will require some more research on my part.:thumb:
hilldweller
LIFE MEMBER
we can see how you carry your motorbike, now that is dangerous
Link Removed
It's something that is a_good_idea on Ducatos. The front overhang is less than read overhang, the front it too light. I'm not sure how the numbers work out, whether there are fixing points and it looks terrible, but there is merit in it.
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If some Bull bars are barred I'm sure protruding handlebars and a fuel tank have got to be a bit suspect. Have you thought of trading the wife in for a larger model, that would help keep the front down.
hilldweller
LIFE MEMBER
Hadn't thought of that.
slobadoberbob
Free Member
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i rest mu case
What was that about MPG Buttons? as you said yourself in your post... just shows you can't believe everything that you read on a forum
Bob
What was that about MPG Buttons? as you said yourself in your post... just shows you can't believe everything that you read on a forum
Bob
slobadoberbob
Free Member
- Jun 1, 2009
- 6,151
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- 6,953
- MH
- Winnebago 23' something
- Exp
- 25 years & counting
0ut of interest
20 years ago plus we had front bike hangers on our A class RV.. on the back I had a fold up motorbike.DiBlazi and Sue had a three wheeler Pashley push bike.. as there was no room we shipped in a fron bike rack for the kids bikes and for many a year we transported them without being stopped.
Bob:thumb:
20 years ago plus we had front bike hangers on our A class RV.. on the back I had a fold up motorbike.DiBlazi and Sue had a three wheeler Pashley push bike.. as there was no room we shipped in a fron bike rack for the kids bikes and for many a year we transported them without being stopped.
Bob:thumb:
jonandshell
Free Member
If one needs a car, then why spend 40k on a MH, 8K on a car, 1k on the a-frame/trailer when you could have a car and caravan combo for 25k which brakes, reverses, is legal everywhere and has more space in it whilst on site?
Car towing seems to us be an obsession of us Brits, probably inspired by too much American influence in our culture. I understand perfectly the need for an additional small vehicle if your steed is an RV, but I have witnessed, I kid you not, a sub-6m panel van conversion pulling a small hatchback on an A-frame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We have a 7m MH and just don't get this towing a car business...........................
Sorry to be controversial, bad day at work!
Car towing seems to us be an obsession of us Brits, probably inspired by too much American influence in our culture. I understand perfectly the need for an additional small vehicle if your steed is an RV, but I have witnessed, I kid you not, a sub-6m panel van conversion pulling a small hatchback on an A-frame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We have a 7m MH and just don't get this towing a car business...........................
Sorry to be controversial, bad day at work!
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Last edited:
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