New purchase what to do about payment ??

I know it's very unlikely but just trying to cover my ass

Loosing 5k will hurt but would not be life changing
 
mikebeaches said:
I traded my van in in October (couple of years ago), to wait for new factory-order delivery in the spring. As it turned out, new van was nearly 3 months late... hey ho.

But I didn't want to keep my van through another British winter.

I knew I was taking a small risk, but it was a big long-established and busy dealer (Highbridge Caravans).

I paid the balance for the new van on delivery. And all worked out fine.

But I guess I can see where you are coming from.
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Our dealer took a deposit (a very small deposit) but would not take the trade in until we collected the new van. He said it made things too complex legally speaking as it became a part performed contract should we reject the new van on collection for any reason. As it happened we didn't and still love the new van.

Lanerboy said:
Let me please confirm the new MH is on site at the dealers and I have viewed it it's just not registered yet so in my eyes I can pay for it in full and have the vin number on the invoice instead of the reg as I don't want it registering until March I could do all this on the day I leave my part ex with them surely this way I own the new MH from that day not the dealer
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pappajohn said:
I wonder if the dealers insurance would still cover it or if you would have to insure it yourself using the VIN number rather than a reg number.
Quite a few insurers do this for private imports while documentation is sorted so no reason they wouldn't in this case.
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I was wondering that as well. If @Lanerboy was insuring it then that would also help prove ownership I would think.

Lanerboy said:
Yes I have thought about this and I would insure it from the day I paid for it on my own insurance so it's covered from my end
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Another alternative might be to get them to drive it to your property or storage area on trade plates. That way it is in your possession although not registered. Could you register it yourself if necessary?
 
Puddleduck said:
Another alternative might be to get them to drive it to your property or storage area on trade plates. That way it is in your possession although not registered. Could you register it yourself if necessary?
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There's a thought I wonder if that's possible as I have my own trade plates so buy it drive home on my trade plates and register it in March

Not sure what's involved in registering it though
 
Can't be that difficult, motor dealers do it!

I registered my daughter's scooter at a local office (when they had them) and it was very quick and easy.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration

yes, I just read through the requirements and it's straightforward.
 
Dorset Diver said:
Pay at least £100 of the deposit on your credit card. That way you will gain section 75 protection over the entire deal in full. The CC company becomes jointly and severally responsible for the delivery of the contract.

I would not let them have your van.
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Section 75 only covers purchases up to 30k once you exceed the limit you have no protection
Sorry...
I checked this when I bought my van
 
Lanerboy said:
Not sure what's involved in registering it though
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Can take up to 6 weeks but you could ask them to register as from 1 March ?

Also make sure the dealer doesn't charge you for number plates, registration fee and RFL, unless they will register it for you anyway.
 
Lanerboy said:
How can a dealer sell a MH that does not belong to them it's like selling a car on finance the finance company just go get it back from the new owner and the poor new owner looses all their money
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Sorry but in your situation that's incorrect. The buyer will normally obtain legal ownership. The dealer just has to say he's selling on your behalf. Then it's a case of proving the money is yours.

Assuming it is not sold without your permission, leaving your PX with the dealer is still a risky thing to do unless you are 100% certain that the dealer will not go bust before March. You can't even be sure that your PX is going to be insured. In an insolvency the first thing that the Receiver (or Administrator) does is cancel all business insurances and claim a refund of premiums. Standard practice. Then all the MHs on the premises will be sold as fast as possible to the trade or sent to auction. This could all happen without you getting any notification. Good luck trying to get your PX back.

Your deposit is also at risk unless it is held in a separate trust account not simply paid into the general business account. I'm assuming that the dealer's conditions of sale say that ownership in the new MH does not pass until he gets full payment. If not, it is at your risk and you would have to insure it yourself. Not easy to get cover if it is left at trade premises for 6 weeks.
 
SpeedyDux said:
The buyer will normally obtain legal ownership. The dealer just has to say he's selling on your behalf. Then it's a case of proving the money is yours.
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Must remember not to take my vehicle into a dealers for work incase they decide to sell it on my behalf.
Never heard such nonsense.
 
Lanerboy said:
Maybe I could leave my motorhome with them but not transfer ownership to the dealer until the day I purchase the new one this would save me from driving it all the way back but it would still remain my property until I returned to collect the new one and they would merely have to store my part ex until hand over day and would be unable to sell it on
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That is a better idea than your original one but another very important point to consider is:

Does the dealer have full title to the new van in the first place?

Many dealers have their vans on the forecourt for sale but those vans are supplied on a sale or return basis. Other dealers may have a stock plan financed by a bank or other commercial lender. In either case, the dealer may not have title to the van and I don't know where you would stand in the pecking order if the dealer went bust.

About 8 years ago we bought a BMW Z4 from a large BMW national dealership. About 6 months later we thought about changing the car and went to another dealership for a price for our Z4 against another new car. The salesman asked if we had any finance outstanding on the car and we said no. He was embarrassed when he checked with HPI to find that there was indeed outstanding finance and in the circumstances could not offer a deal until the outstanding loan was settled.

We were shocked and couldn't understand why there was outstanding finance on the car. In the event, it was established that the original BMW dealer had not cleared the outstanding "stock" debt that they had on the car, even after we had bought it. The debt was eventually cleared but it took several weeks for it to be done.

So, be careful and hang on to your van!

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It all sounds so complicated and a tad risky that I would just make life simple and drive your existing van home until changeover day.
I appreciate that it's a long drive but you could make a little holiday out of it by stopping somewhere for a night or two.
Same thing when you pick up the new van: put minimum clothes, food and kit in the old van, drive to dealer and do the handover, pay on debit card once happy with new van, then spend a night or two in the new van, close to dealer in case of problems.
That's what we did when we picked up our Carthago from a distant dealer and had to return to the workshop after the weekend because of a couple of minor problems.

Richard.
 
Well when I posted about this I never thought about so many options of what could happen

It would be a lot simpler if there was a law for deposits like there is when buying a house and the deposit goes into a client's account they should do this so my deposit would not become theirs until hand over day

I have looked at the dealers accounts on companies house and they seem very strong so possibly worrying over nothing

I will think about my options but may just end up driving my px down then back again it's a ball ache but would give me the best piece of mind
 
Best option I've seen on this thread is to either collect it on your Trade Plates or pay the dealer to deliver it on his. Registration is a simple process you can do at your leisure.
 
Lanerboy said:
Well when I posted about this I never thought about so many options of what could happen

It would be a lot simpler if there was a law for deposits like there is when buying a house and the deposit goes into a client's account they should do this so my deposit would not become theirs until hand over day

I have looked at the dealers accounts on companies house and they seem very strong so possibly worrying over nothing

I will think about my options but may just end up driving my px down then back again it's a ball ache but would give me the best piece of mind
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i havnt digested all this thread but understand you are just taking your van for them to look at it and then coming home, but surely you have to get home anyway so why not bring the van home? .
another possibility , cant they come and look at it at your house.
 
Collect it on trade plates, register it in March. Just check with the dealer when the warrenty will start. I expect it is at point of sale, not registration.

If you leave your new van at the dealers until March, are you sure they will not let people inside to view the layout, etc?

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cornish boy said:
Collect it on trade plates, register it in March. Just check with the dealer when the warrenty will start. I expect it is at point of sale, not registration.

If you leave your new van at the dealers until March, are you sure they will not let people inside to view the layout, etc?
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Blimey are buyers of new motorhomes so sensitive that someone might have been inside their new motorhome before them . Sounds like someone looking for a virgin bride .
 
Trev45 said:
Blimey are buyers of new motorhomes so sensitive that someone might have been inside their new motorhome before them . Sounds like someone looking for a virgin bride .
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Not before its been purchased, thats a free for all...

But after it has paid for in full, I wouldn't expect the dealer to still use it for viewings. Thats not being sensitive.
 
Why on earth did you give the dealer a 5k deposit, a deposit should be an amount that you can aford to loose/write of if things go wrong. I've bought 3 new Hymers only ever given a 1k deposit.
Lanerboy said:
WHAT IF THEY GO BUST BEFORE I COLLECT MY NEW VEHICLE
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Basicly tough you've lost.
Had a friend loose thousands some years ago, in the days a cheques, he posted a cheque on Monday ready to pick up the van on Friday, dealer cashed the check and went bump on Thursday. It was a well known dealer with a good reputation.
 
ludo said:
Does the dealer have full title to the new van in the first place?
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Very good point.

In most scenarios the dealer cannot give good "title" (ownership) if he does not possess it. So if the manufacturer has a retention of title clause in their contract with the dealer, and I guess most would, they, not the dealer, own the motorhome until the dealer has paid them for it. In that case no matter what the dealer has agreed with you it is highly likely that you will not own the motorhome. And having it registered by the DVLA in your name will not help in that scenario. Note the warning in big capital letters on the front of your V5 "THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT PROOF OF OWNERSHIP".

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pappajohn said:
Must remember not to take my vehicle into a dealers for work incase they decide to sell it on my behalf.
Never heard such nonsense.
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I never suggested that a dealer is going to sell your MH if you take it in for work. If you leave your MH as a PX which the dealer will be looking to sell on within weeks anyway, that's a completely different scenario. There are different possible legal interpretations one of which is that you impliedly authorised him to sell it. Your expectation is not that the dealer will hand back the PX to you on the day of the exchange. In line with the Order you placed, your expectation is that the dealer merely deducts the agreed PX value from the price of your new MH. From that perspective whether the PX is in his stock or has been sold is less relevant. If you are interested there's plenty on the internet about the sale by mercantile agent exception to the nemo dat quod non habet rule.

I was drawing attention to the potential risk that the innocent buyer can obtain ownership. In which case you cannot recover your MH. If you are risk-averse, it is better to have an extra round trip at change time in case during the interval the dealer goes bust after having sold your PX. If you think that is a remote possiblity, fine. I would agree. In a previous life my job was to point out such risks and advise how to avoid them.

I think it's time I shut up on these threads. If Funsters want advice they should pay for it. I'm out.
 
chaser said:
i havnt digested all this thread but understand you are just taking your van for them to look at it and then coming home, but surely you have to get home anyway so why not bring the van home? .
another possibility , cant they come and look at it at your house.
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The reason I wanted to leave it at the dealers was to avoid driving the 450 mile round trip twice I was going to come back on the train
 
@SpeedyDux I am relatively new to this forum and I for one am very interested in informed responses to different and varied queries and genuinely believe that the majority of members are pleased to receive advice from people who are knowledgeable in their own specialty and hope that you’re “ I’m out “ comment is reconsidered.
 
peterc10 said:
In most scenarios the dealer cannot give good "title" (ownership) if he does not possess it. So if the manufacturer has a retention of title clause in their contract with the dealer, and I guess most would, they, not the dealer, own the motorhome until the dealer has paid them for it. In that case no matter what the dealer has agreed with you it is highly likely that you will not own the motorhome. And having it registered by the DVLA in your name will not help in that scenario. Note the warning in big capital letters on the front of your V5 "THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT PROOF OF OWNERSHIP".
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Well this must be the case in most sales then and hundreds of MH are sold new each year so has anyone else who purchased new ever had a problem in this respect that title was not given to the new owner
 
Alex and Lesley said:
@SpeedyDux I am relatively new to this forum and I for one am very interested in informed responses to different and varied queries and genuinely believe that the majority of members are pleased to receive advice from people who are knowledgeable in their own specialty and hope that you’re “ I’m out “ comment is reconsidered.
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Thanks for your response. :)

Having retired quite recently my knowledge is still fairly up to date. As time goes by, it won't be because the law is always changing. I fully understand the mutual goodwill and desire to be helpful from everyone who posts on these threads. Sometimes Funsters think they know the law, but don't really, or they get it only half right. Even Judges get it wrong and have to be corrected via appeals to a higher Court. Anyone can make mistakes. I don't want to fall into that trap if it leads to another's misfortune! When the question involves a transaction worth tens of thousands it probably is best for the Funster not to rely on free anonymous legal advice on a forum. Better to use a paid professional who has indemnity insurance, just in case.

On the other hand, the technical advice on FUN is often excellent and very knowledgeable, better than you will get from your typical dealer. (y)

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SpeedyDux said:
Having retired quite recently my knowledge is still fairly up to date. As time goes by, it won't be because the law is always changing.
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Which is also why I no longer give tax advice.

I am no longer up to date or even well informed.
 
It seems to me in this situation, where the new MH is available that the solution is to drive the PX vehicle to the Dealer, pay the balance and drive the new on home on Trade plates, maybe with a stop near the Dealer to check out systems. This way there is no period during which anything is at risk, except the deposit prior to collection.


For anyone worrying about a dealer holding a deposit, one solution is to pay it into an Escrow account at a Solicitor. The money is held for the benefit of the dealer but can only be released on the production of certain agreed documents e.g. Bill of Sale to the buyer of the vehicle being sold. Certain provisions can be written in for return of the deposit to thebuyer in the event of, for example, dealer going into administration/bankruptcy, or failure to perform the contract within a set period.

There will be a charge for this but can be viewed as a form of 'insurance'

Speedydux may wish to comment in general on this Escrow idea.

Geoff
 
Just out of interest.
Has anybody been in the situation where the motorhome dealer has gone bust after agreeing a deal and then lost their deposit ?
If nobody can claim that, does anybody know of anybody at anytime who has lost their deposit on a motorhome deal because the company went bust ?
I m not saying it isnt a concern, but i dont think (and i may be wrong) it is much of a concern.
 
suavecarve said:
Just out of interest.
Has anybody been in the situation where the motorhome dealer has gone bust after agreeing a deal and then lost their deposit ?
If nobody can claim that, does anybody know of anybody at anytime who has lost their deposit on a motorhome deal because the company went bust ?
I m not saying it isnt a concern, but i dont think (and i may be wrong) it is much of a concern.
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read my post #48
 
Lenny HB said:
read my post #48
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Noted.
I found the post and you have educated me in how to find the numbered post eg#48
I must have got bored by page 2 and missed yours !
Cheers

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