New laws in Spain Re cannot touch phone for navigation etc from March 22

[royandsharont]

That and speeding are a real concern for DGT Re road deaths etc hence their more stricter legislation coming into place throughout recent years

 

[nicholsong]

I think it will include any device that takes your attention away from driving safely.


Just because a vehicle has it installed doesn't mean it is legal to use it whilst travelling as you shouldn't really be touching and being distracted by anything that needs you to take your eyes off the road whilst driving, eg changing sat nav settings, radio stations etc, if you need to do that you should really pull over so you can concentrate properly. You can't blame the manufacturer of the vehicle for including it and you using it illegally, no different to having a high powered car and saying it's their fault that you were speeding.

So what about changing heater controls to demist a windscreen or turning the eating down to void falling saleep, or looking down to turn on fog lights?

It is also necessary to take ones eyes off the road ahead to check rrear view mirrors.

Geoff

 

[acropolis22]

Just don't do it while next to a police car?

 

[gus-lopez]

Been driving out there for the last two months and the use of phones while driving is astronomical…. The police could have a field day and wipe out the national dept in a week, I kid you not…

Whilst it is an offence it is part of the driving test the ability to speak on the phone whilst turning right & waving thanks to whoever let you out.
The mobile phone offence existed exactly as before.All they have done is increased the fine & doubled the points loss to 6 from 3.

 

[busby]

When I think back to when I was lorry driving many years ago I was navigating with a map and an A to Z whilst smoking and operating a 12 speed gear box at the same time. Irresponsible but the norm back then..BUSBY.

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[Minxy]

I don’t think that is fully quite right. Most vehicles have buttons knobs etc that the driver has to touch rotate push etc to use them, and many are legal requirements such as lighting, modern electric handbrake application, then there are the safety ones like screen de misters. I’m sure they wouldn’t want you stop to switch them on and I’m afraid many would not be able to fully use them without taking their eyes off the road, even if for a second, to locate their exact position amongst the array of such buttons.

You're taking what I said to the extreme, many items don't require you to take your eyes off the road and concentrate on them for more than half a quick glance, if it take you longer then you should IMV stop and familiarise yourself with the vehicle so you know where they are after all you're supposed to be capable of driving the vehicle and that includes the controls within it. The

Changing sat nav or phone use is very much different, as they take a lot of time and are a big distraction and voice activation, which I have too, cannot do all you may want.

Totally agree on this point, people generally cannot do anything with them with just a quick single glance; if a sat nav needs the driver's input they will have to concentrate on it in order to do so as they don't have 'buttons' you can feel and usually need more than a single press, and as for a phone held in a hands free kit or via the dash unit, even if you manage to answer a call with a single prod, click of a headset, or giving it a command to answer, the act of talking on it is a major distraction.

I personally don’t use it or use the phone/ sat nav whilst moving, only whilst parked, but incoming phone calls are answered automatically and I don’t have to do anything.

All my other controls are mainly on the steering wheel, except lights & de misters so I don’t tend to touch the screen of the inbuilt infotainment centre & I don’t connect my phone to car play or use it to navigate with.

When people say they are 'safe' when using a phone whilst driving a car (hands free) I tell them when at home they should try talking on their phone whilst doing an activity which requires a lot of attention without stopping at all (eg chopping veg with a sharp knife!), they won't be able to do it without some pausing or distraction and that's the danger which they don't think about.

Perhaps I should of been clearer, or chose a fuller explanation of my thought, Re ‘manufacturer being guilty of aiding and abetting’ I would never expect or meant to suggest they would be prosecuted but for someone to build something that could, and likely be used, illegally whilst driving would not be appropriate to sell. I am of the view if the laws changed to say you cannot touch to adjust start etc a fitted sat nav whilst moving then the manufacturers would be expected to design something that could not be done so drivers who choose to act illegally cannot do so with their help.

After all my car brakes for me, won’t allow me to drive with the door open etc so manufactures take such safety matters very serious these days and the EU has introduced many such measures to come into law at some point this year

Many cars will allow you to drive with a door open, not wear a seat belt etc, the vehicles may alert you but they won't stop you doing it if you want to - how many times have you driven with the alert showing and then had to get out and go shut a door properly, we've done it and I'm sure others have so you can't say the manufacturer has stopped this practice although I agree it would be good if it was made impossible.

It will be very interesting to see how modern motoring develops

Very much so, hopefully things that are illegal to do will have car technology which will prevent the action, eg not wearing seat belt, but I'm sure some people would still try to find a way to circumvent it and unfortunately succeed.

 

[royandsharont]

Sorry Minxy I admit I cannot specifically know where all the buttons are in my car because I rarely have cause to use them and I don’t drive it enough. Did twice as many miles in the MH pre pandemic. I know roughly where they are but could not honestly say it’s the 3rd from the left in the top row of 7 as an example.

This is the first car that is so electronic and lots of functions. I have never had to apply the handbrake, an electronic one that does have an emergency small horizontal lever in the centre console, I know where it is but to actually put my finger in the gap immediately and correctly I doubt I could get it right without looking as well.

But my current car, a Skoda SUV, the first one that has ever done this, will not let me move the car with my door open even if closed on the first notch, it has to have the door fully closed. I can start the engine but cannot move it, as I learned when it was new when trying to reverse it out of my garage. I had to get the manual and see what was going wrong and read where the issue lay. I must admit it surprised me and I have never done it again, although the door has not always closed fully first time but I look for that now.

Not sure about the seatbelts as I am lucky to be able to honestly say I never start the engine of my own car without first engaging the seat belt so have never had a warning before. A good habit I don’t seem to ever change from. I have deliberately, and legally, not fastened my seat belt in a works car but I think they may have had any warning alarm disabled as I don’t recall hearing one when I was working.

When I did my advanced driving course, many years ago now, I had to do a running commentary to the examiner all the time and yes it is hard and does sap some of the driving concentration, that’s why I never make calls, rarely receive any on the mobile and generally do not have conversations for more than an exchange of words with my wife, I prefer to concentrate on the driving but I do like the radio on in the background.

 

[rod_vw]

Do they not remember the days when you had to juggle the choke to keep the engine running? Not to mention adjusting the ignition timing on very elderly vintage vehicles!
For those who have never seen such things, the choke was usually on the dash (although mine on the 1946 Beetle is on the tunnel) and on even older vehicles the ignition timing was often in the centre of the steering wheel.

 

[Jonny1953]

But my current car, a Skoda SUV, the first one that has ever done this, will not let me move the car with my door open even if closed on the first notch, it has to have the door fully closed. I can start the engine but cannot move it, as I learned when it was new when trying to reverse it out of my garage. I had to get the manual and see what was going wrong and read where the issue lay. I must admit it surprised me and I have never done it again, although the door has not always closed fully first time but I look for that now.

Are you sure about this. my GLC will apply the handbrake if any doors or boot are open and I engage drive/reverse, but I can still release the handbrake by pressing the button which is difficult to find as it's somewhere near my right knee, next to the lights switch.

 

[Burgo]

Do they not remember the days when you had to juggle the choke to keep the engine running? Not to mention adjusting the ignition timing on very elderly vintage vehicles

And constantly adjust the vacuum knob to stop the windscreen wipers stopping as you went up the hill, then going mental when you went down the other side of the hill.

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[Steve and Denise]

And constantly adjust the vacuum knob to stop the windscreen wipers stopping as you went up the hill, then going mental when you went down the other side of the hill.

That’s new cars for you 1953?

 

[Rapido925M]

Is the 1.5m gap for overtaking only related to vehicles passing cycles? I recall plenty of occasions when I wished there was a bigger gap between my vehicle and someone else's!

And that particularly applies to being overtaken by moped riders in towns.

Gordon

 

[gus-lopez]

Is the 1.5m gap for overtaking only related to vehicles passing cycles? I recall plenty of occasions when I wished there was a bigger gap between my vehicle and someone else's!

And that particularly applies to being overtaken by moped riders in towns.

Gordon

Yes.

Pàrked cars you only leave a cigarette papers width.

 

[royandsharont]

Are you sure about this. my GLC will apply the handbrake if any doors or boot are open and I engage drive/reverse, but I can still release the handbrake by pressing the button which is difficult to find as it's somewhere near my right knee, next to the lights switch.

I'm not really sure Jonny1953, I had to get out of the car and read the manual, as I said, but it didn't mention anything about manually releasing the handbrake. I suppose when you think about it that sounds likely right to cover all needs. Next time I'm in the car I shall try it and see. Thanks very much for this comment, I appreciate you telling me.

We don't change cars very often & tend to buy new every 10 years so the changes in technology from our previous car, a Vauxhall Meriva, was enormous! We didn't like all the change and new technology at first, especially it breaking for me. 2 weeks after buying it we went away in the MH for our regular 2 month tours so hadn't driven it much. When we returned is when I had the problem on first use. At first I had to really think about the sequence of events that allowed me to start the car and where the button was, which I did recall eventually as its totally keyless entry, and then it wouldn't move because of the door which I thought was closed properly.

 

[BreweryDave]

Here in Portugal they’re so strict that drivers don't even operate the indicators…………….

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[cyberyacht]

I remember when the headlight dip switch was foot operated. Remembering rarely used items like foglight switch can be testing.

 

[acropolis22]

I remember when the headlight dip switch was foot operated. Remembering rarely used items like foglight switch can be testing.

Yup, I remember those. All fine until you needed to change gear and dip the lights at the same time......

 

[royandsharont]

Hi, just catching up on my Spanish news with Murcia Today HERE which says from March 22 you cannot touch your phone whilst driving for anything, including using it to reset your position etc whilst using gps navigational Apps

Hi again, I asked my Spanish friend, living in Spain, if he had any knowledge of these new laws and whilst he did not he found articles in the news and on the DGT website as well as an informative bunch of articles by a Spanish author, David Villarreal, on the subject of driving rules and the DGT which includes reference to such matters. It is not clear if the new laws from 2021 with increased penalties are the the same ones as I referred to above but I suspect they are.

This is what he said "I have looked for news in internet about the use of devices while driving and what the DGT expressly prohibits is "manually using the browser while driving". They mean, looking for a new address, for instance, while driving. The DGT explain in their magazine that many accidents take place because of drivers "manipulating" their navigation devices, like looking for a new address, which distracts drivers. Here you can see a web page about it. It is in Spanish, but you can use the browser translator and translate the page into English. If you have any doubt, just send me the text and I will interpret if for your. I have looked for news in internet about the use of devices while driving and what the DGT expressly prohibits is "manually using the browser while driving". They mean, looking for a new address, for instance, while driving. The DGT explain in their magazine that many accidents take place because of drivers "manipulating" their navigation devices, like looking for a new address, which distracts drivers. Here you can see a web page about it. It is in Spanish, but you can use the browser translator and translate the page into English. If you have any doubt, just send me the text and I will interpret if for your."

The articles are HERE in Spanish but I have pasted an excerpt below which sums up many of my questions re touching any screens, including car infotainment screens. The whole set of articles are interesting and include references to use of touch screens, mobile phones, illegal use/possession of radar detection devices and improper use of revers gear. Hope this helps our understanding a bit better.

• Do not use the touch screen while driving. It has a fine and can distract you and lead you to a risky situation
• The controls on the steering wheel, which allow us to configure the navigator or other options of the entertainment system, are safe and legal as long as we do not distract ourselves or divert our eyes from the road.
• Use voice controls whenever possible. If your car has this option it is a recommended solution to use the navigator, or the entertainment system, without distracting us, or diverting our eyes from the road.
• Set your browser before you go on a trip
• If you forgot to set your browser, find a safe place to park to set up your destination, calmly, and resume your trip.

• Do not manipulate the mobile phone in motion. Remember that using the mobile phone in motion is sanctioned and soon any gesture we make touching it with your hand will be expressly sanctioned
• Use secure supports, which properly hold the mobile phone and do not tend to loosen or have gaps that cause it to move or fall
• Place your mobile phone in an accessible place, but that does not cause distractions, or reduce your chances of movement, or your visibility

 

[royandsharont]

Are you sure about this. my GLC will apply the handbrake if any doors or boot are open and I engage drive/reverse, but I can still release the handbrake by pressing the button which is difficult to find as it's somewhere near my right knee, next to the lights switch.

I'm not really sure Jonny1953, I had to get out of the car and read the manual, as I said, but it didn't mention anything about manually releasing the handbrake. I suppose when you think about it that sounds likely right to cover all needs. Next time I'm in the car I shall try it and see. Thanks very much for this comment, I appreciate you telling me.

We don't change cars very often & tend to buy new every 10 years so the changes in technology from our previous car, a Vauxhall Meriva, was enormous! We didn't like all the change and new technology at first, especially it breaking for me. 2 weeks after buying it we went away in the MH for our regular 2 month tours so hadn't driven it much. When we returned is when I had the problem on first use. At first I had to really think about the sequence of events that allowed me to start the car and where the button was, which I did recall eventually as its totally keyless entry, and then it wouldn't move because of the door which I thought was closed properly.

Hi Jonny1953 I tried as you suggested and my Skoda will start with the door open but will not move forward or reverse. Just thought I’d update this. Thanks once again

 

[pappajohn]

As far as I'm aware the only ligitimate removal of a hand from the steering wheel is to change gear.
Holding the wheel with just one hand for any other reason constitutes a lack of full control.

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[pappajohn]

Hi @Jonny1953 I tried as you suggested and my Skoda will start with the door open but will not move forward or reverse. Just thought I’d update this. Thanks once again

My Hyundai i40 is the same ...the automatic electric park brake won't release if a door is open.
It also won't start unless the clutch pedal is depressed

 

[pappajohn]

Here in Portugal they’re so strict that drivers don't even operate the indicators…………….

Is that all cars or just BMWs?

 

[stevewagner]

Do they not remember the days when you had to juggle the choke to keep the engine running? Not to mention adjusting the ignition timing on very elderly vintage vehicles!
For those who have never seen such things, the choke was usually on the dash (although mine on the 1946 Beetle is on the tunnel) and on even older vehicles the ignition timing was often in the centre of the steering wheel.

Lot less traffic in those days

 

[nicholsong]

As far as I'm aware the only ligitimate removal of a hand from the steering wheel is to change gear.
Holding the wheel with just one hand for any other reason constitutes a lack of full control.

See my post #32 above

to which I could add using hazard lights, fog lights, adjusting sun visors.

There a a multitude of safety functions which require removing one had from the wheel, and also directing one's eyes away from the road, e.g. looking for fog light switch(s) in our car which I rarely drive and might need once a year.

Geoff

 

[Nigel P]

I know roughly where they are but could not honestly say it’s the 3rd from the left in the top row of 7 as an example.

Gets trickier as the choice increases! Wrap around dash with non-illuminated buttons present quite a challenge. At least it is an automatic!

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[cyberyacht]

Are they vehicle controls or the mixer desk for your sound system?

 

[dazandandrea]

We only drive about 10km yesterday and must have seen a dozen people using mobiles here in Spain.

Just like the uk then

 

[EuroTrotters]

Just like the uk then

Uk Is worse

 

[dazandandrea]

Had a close one there , almost crashed reading your last message.