New Ducato Euro 6 Engine Performance

[Lenny HB]

1. When cold there is some engine hesitation at about 55 mph in the first couple of miles but it picks up again with a bit more throttle then clears when the engine warms up a bit more. Fuel mapping bug in the ECU? Sensor glitch? Or a case of "they all do that"?

No problems like that and not heard of it before.

2. No difficulty at all climbing hills, or long motorway inclines which it romps up in 6th with oomph to spare. I don't tend to use cruise control so maybe that's where the issue lies.

Obviously only happens with cruise on 80% + of my driving is with cruise on, use it everywhere.

3. It has used a small bit of oil according to the trip computer thingy but not enough to need topping up.

Used a litre in the first 7000 last 7000 not so much.

 

[TinaLes]

From what you said, yours does seem to be down on power, so unless the full 150 horses turn up soon you should get that investigated before the warranty runs out.

Yes I hear what you say, but not only is difficult to make an appointment with Fiat Professional garages as "they dont have ramps or workshop headroom big enough"or sorry but we have dont have a Fiat engineer at present as he has now left, trying to replace him (Crawley Fiat Professional) or F G Barnes(Guildford) dont return e mail requests, so will have to ring them for appointment.

I really dont think its down on power that's the problem, I just think it needs more miles on the clock to loosen up as it runs as sweet as a nut, even from cold, and can hit 80+ on the flat if I let it, or I should say if I stoop down and look at the speedo. Makes me sound like a speed nutter, but it was purely unintentional as it is quiet for a van.."officer"
There is a hellover difference between running with empty water tanks and everything emptied out the van, when its goes in for service and alike.
Les

 

[Pausim]

I don’t have one but are the slightly unusual characteristics anything to do with the EGR method of achieving Euro 6? I have a vague recollection that Fiat were about to drop the EGR method for an AdBlue system. I suspect that some knowledgeable person will be along shortly to correct me but if they are changing horses it will be interesting to see how the engines compare. I might even be tempted away from Mercedes.

 

[DL42846]

Hi, has anyone got any views or first hand experience regarding the performance of the latest Euro 6 engines fitted to the Fiat Ducato, in particular the 130bhp Multijet Engine. We've just sold our 2009 Swift Bolero which had the Euro 4 130 bhp engine which had covered 30,000 trouble free miles and had been and performed just great. We've just bought a new Autotrail with the Euro 6 130 bhp engine upgrade but although it has covered no miles (150 miles) seems positively slow in comparison and seems to suffer bad turbo lag pulling away. Is this normal until they have done a few thousand miles or do we have a problem? We never ever put a drop of oil in the Euro 4 engine between services (every 6,000 miles), but understand the new Euro 6 engine needs half a litre of special Petronas oil every 600 miles. I hope I haven't made a big mistake selling our older Bolero (Coachbuilt) for a new V Line 6.2m Panel Van Conversion. Has anyone had similair thoughts and experiences.

I had a new sprinter which required oil topping up every 1500 miles. That was until it had covered 15000 miles. The engine went on to cover 860,000 kilometers of trouble free motoring before I sold it on. I too was concerned in the beginning. I took it back to Mercedes a couple of times in the beginning thinking I had been sold a pig. Turned out to be a great engine.

 

[Lenny HB]

There is a hellover difference between running with empty water tanks and everything emptied out the van, when its goes in for service and alike.

Why would you empty everything out for a service? Mine stays fully loaded even for the damp check.

I have a vague recollection that Fiat were about to drop the EGR method for an AdBlue system.

Originaly Fiat said they would be changing in late 2017 but never heard any more about it.

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[TinaLes]

Why would you empty everything out for a service? Mine stays fully loaded even for the damp check.
Old habits die hard lenny, used to have to do this everytime we put the caravan in for hab check and service.
On the moho its 138 miles each way, to Chelstons in Wellington, Somerset, so I empty water tank, clear out garage to save dosh on fuel, yes and I am of Scottish decent after all
Les.

 

[Lenny HB]

Have my damp check done in Belgium combine it with a trip so it's fully loaded and only costs €70 .Never have rip off hab checks done.

 

[jongood]

We ve had a 3 litre 160hp for the past 7 years 60+K in a 4500kgs A Class, delighted with it No problem with Fiat but when the time comes will not be buying a 2.3 litre. Sorry Fiat we will be looking elsewhere, quite likely Iveco or MAN.

 

[Lazyboy]

I have the 2.3 litre 180 bhp with comfortmatic on three axles running at 5,250 kgs. Had some issues about performance and fuel consumption. Spoke to Camper UK who in turn spoke to Fiat and the outcome was an ECU update which so far has proved to be successful. The engine has covered just over 6,000 miles. There is certainly a difference in all aspects, gear change pattern, pulling at low revs and also pure acceleration. Not had chance to do good fuel check but initial signs are that there is an improvement. It is quite possible that there are ECU updates available but unless you ask you will not know. Camper UK are Fiat Professional dealers and I have to say they seem to have a good relationship with Fiat. If anyone is near (ish) to Lincoln definitely worth a try, very good service. On another note was with a guy a couple of weeks ago who has a Frankia 3 axle on a Mercedes and whilst he likes the vehicle (2.7 with Auto I believe) he is not impressed with 16/17 mpg!!

 

[TinaLes]

I have the 2.3 litre 180 bhp with comfortmatic on three axles running at 5,250 kgs. Had some issues about performance and fuel consumption. Spoke to Camper UK who in turn spoke to Fiat and the outcome was an ECU update which so far has proved to be successful. The engine has covered just over 6,000 miles. There is certainly a difference in all aspects, gear change pattern, pulling at low revs and also pure acceleration. Not had chance to do good fuel check but initial signs are that there is an improvement. It is quite possible that there are ECU updates available but unless you ask you will not know. Camper UK are Fiat Professional dealers and I have to say they seem to have a good relationship with Fiat. If anyone is near (ish) to Lincoln definitely worth a try, very good service. On another note was with a guy a couple of weeks ago who has a Frankia 3 axle on a Mercedes and whilst he likes the vehicle (2.7 with Auto I believe) he is not impressed with 16/17 mpg!!

Great to read a success story from Fiat Professional for a change.
It just proves to me and others probably that additional performance can be had by a simple re-map of the ECU.
Its such a shame that we are not given the option of a software/re-mapping update when there is one available. If Fiat offered this as an option say after the vehicle had covered x number of miles and be run in, then many would go for it, even at cost, because its done by Fiat and not some flybynite company.
Happy travels in your new Tag Axel Sport Turbo MK2
Les

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[Stephen Franklin]

We had a 150hp Euro6 manual on 4400kg chassis. It did loosen up a bit by 4000 miles, but always felt like hard work to "maintain progress", the slightest incline requiring a change down to 5th. We now have 180hp Euro6 comfortmatic on a 4500 kg chassis. From new this was much more relaxed and easy to drive, with easier acceleration and rarely downchanges on an incline. Fuel consumption was around 24 mpg on the 150 after the first couple of thousand miles and is already 24 mpg in the first thousand miles on the 180.

 

[gus-lopez]

One thing I noticed is that it gets a bit noisy on hard acceleration over 2500 revs, but I rarely rev it above 2000 so it’s not a problem.

If you continually run it at low revs you night well face limp mode problems with the dpf & exhaust system which needs to be thrashed occasionally to achieve high temps .

 

[Paul and Val]

Sorry to a bit negative but the FIAT 130 is far to underpowered to keep up with modern traffic. We test drove one and I could not believe how slow and weak the engine was.

We went for the Ford with a third more power at 170bhp although as far as I know that engine is only available from Chausson and a Spanish manufacturer who's name I have forgot tern (Benimar or something a little like it).

No oil used in over 20.000 km and has so far returned 24.9mbg despite being driven quite hard. We cruise at 119kmph on the motorways.

I simply could not imagine driving the FIAT any distance. Certainly if I had that 130bhp lump I would have it chipped in a heartbeat.

One piece of advice. We bought the 2018 model which is a manual but the 2019 models are all 6 speed auto boxes which we are lusting after. I do feel that there is too big a gap between 5th and 6th gears on the Ford but it is not a massive problem.

Before everybody jumps on the 'yes but all the Fords get stolen' bandwagon, after many negative similar comments on the Forum I asked our Insurance office about theft risk and he tells me that the new Fords are no more highly rated for theft than the FIATs. I await an avalanche of negative comments in response but we would never go back to a FIAT and the Mercedes is too expensive and too thirsty.

The only problem that has arisen with the Ford is that after 20.000km the cooling fan switch has developed a fault and runs from the moment it is switched on so it is not perfect but it will be rectified under warranty next week and otherwise has used no oil although it does drink a bit of Adblue which I really don't mind.

It is our first motorhome and when we will change it it will be for another Ford based model.

 

[Cliffdale]

If it helps, i have the 160bhp Autotrail apache 700. 2 adults on board and half fuel and water, we make between 22mpg and max out at 24mpg. I have not really noticed a difference between 55mpg and 65 mpg, often at motorway speeds we tend to stick to around 65mph. I dont mind increasing to overtake and some one i met once, said he sometimes gets up to 80mph to pass traffic quickly.

I bought expensive premium fuel once, it did make a difference to fuel consumption but not enough to make me keep buying it.

 

[bobandjanie]

We had a euro 5 with 56000 miles no problem, we now have a euro 6 it's done 35000 km both 2.3 130 running at 3500kg not noticed anything between them both pull like a train both doing over 30 to the gallon on the cheapest diesel we can find.
In fact the euro 5 we towed a 7.5m caravan down to Spain with all our belongings and still got 27 to the gallon.
Would we buy another Yes, our 3rd Fiat and 1 Mercedes all good vechicles, the only thing against fiat is front wheel drive. Bob.

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[dbw]

Our previous motorhome was an A class on the 5 tonnes Merc chassis with the 3 litre V6 auto which felt fine on the road but struggled to return higher than 20mpg despite being chipped and dropped to 17-18 mpg when towing a small car behind. We now have a new Fiat 2.3 180bhp powering an A class again, 4.5 tonnes chassis, comfortmatic transmission. At first, it felt a bit tight and needed revving more than the Merc but was more economical (22mpg), now we have 4000 miles on the clock it feels much freer and pulls better and economy is improving (25mpg). I’ve not noticed much difference in the noise between the two , the main changes have been front wheel drive v rear wheel drive and the chassis differences. To be honest, I’d be quite happy with either of them .

 

[Allanm]

If you continually run it at low revs you night well face limp mode problems with the dpf & exhaust system which needs to be thrashed occasionally to achieve high temps .

We do lots of long trips and I do give it an Italian Tune up occasionally, so dont worry about any dpf problems, but useful info, thanks.

 

[tjay]

Know this post is about mostly Fiats but we have an Elddis with Euro 6 c/w adblue 2.0ltre 130 bhp.now at 6000mls
Very happy with it , pulls up hills in 6th no probs, manage 28-30mpg too.
The full tank of Adblue lasted 5400 miles before it "flashed up" top up .
Have pulled our Fiat Panda on single axle trailer and only drop 1 mpg when doing so , well chuffed !

 

[BobtheBass]

Do any of you guys with new 180s have the loud howl I am getting between 1100 and 1400rpm that Fiat tell me is a "characteristic" of this engine?

 

[Stephen Franklin]

Do any of you guys with new 180s have the loud howl I am getting between 1100 and 1400rpm that Fiat tell me is a "characteristic" of this engine?

Can't say I've noticed it.

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[BILL 875]

I have an A class E6 150 comfomatic box, 3700kg +, it did have a ECU update at Fiat, done 16000 mls and no oil added between oil changes and steady away 65 ish 25mpg it is a bit high geared in 6th though and drop it down a gear myself when going up hills.
Bill

 

[56337]

I really do think much of it is down to reasonable expectations. Our MH is a Fiat 2.3 130 manual. It will sit at 70 all day and having fitted decent carpets in the cab the noise is not unreasonable. Granted it takes longer to get to 70 than my 3.0 V6 Auto Vito but thats a completely different animal.
I bought a MH to enjoy the journey from leaving home to arriving back whenever that may be. If the journey takes me 15 mins longer per day because the 130 rated at 3850kg is not as fast as my other vehicle I'm really not that bothered.

 

[pandas]

Do any of you guys with new 180s have the loud howl I am getting between 1100 and 1400rpm that Fiat tell me is a "characteristic" of this engine?

Yes from my wife when we are doing 90mph in the outside lane

 

[dbw]

Do any of you guys with new 180s have the loud howl I am getting between 1100 and 1400rpm that Fiat tell me is a "characteristic" of this engine?

Not something we have noticed.

 

[JonP]

Needs 10-15k to loosen up. Ours started going really well once we clocked up 10k.

We have the 180 euro 6 comfortauto with 4500kg chassis, it runs OK other than hunting between 5 & 6 on hills, but that’s improving with mileage now 6k. At the end of the day it’s a house on wheels, if you want a driving experience buy a hot hatch and book hotels.

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[Millsy's]

Anyone with a Euro 6 Fiat really needs to give them 10,000 - 15,000 miles to loosen up especially if you have the Comformatic box.
Fiat do not consider the engine run in until 15,000 which is what the gearbox is set up for.

Lenny,
That's what I have gone for now the euro 6 150bhp Comformatic instead of a euro 6 130bhp Manual, The dealer had one in stock and I managed to do a deal and change the order.
How did your set up perform when the milage was low ?
The CaradoT447 is rated at 3850 but it will probably run at 3500 ish

 

[Lenny HB]

How did your set up perform when the milage was low ?

???

 

[Millsy's]

???

Sorry Lenny, what I meant was how did your engine and comformatic gearbox perform before it was run in at 10000 miles plus? I am just trying to gauge what to expect from new you see.

 

[Zepp]

We also have the 2.3 180bhp with a Comfortmatic box and to be honest I love it , done 18,000 in under 2 years its sometimes a bit slow to change but so am I .

 

[Lenny HB]

Sorry Lenny, what I meant was how did your engine and comformatic gearbox perform before it was run in at 10000 miles plus? I am just trying to gauge what to expect from new you see.

It was just that the engine was a bit sluggish started to improve around 4000 miles. Two years old now and done 18,000 not much difference after 10,000.

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