New driveway advice

[TinSte]

We have a 4.5 tonne motorhome & need to renew the front garden where it stands. At the moment it is sitting on concrete gravel boards (which have been broken by the weight of the vehicle but are being held together by the reinforcing bars in them) due to the ground below getting boggy when we have a lot of rain. (Moho had to be dragged off the drive by a recovery truck on Christmas day 2019) The gravel boards are sitting on 20mm gravel, which is sitting on top of compacted soil (it was like this when we moved in.)

My questions are:

1. How deep will we need to dig out to put in the sub-base?
2. What type of sub-base do we need to use? I've read MOT 1 & MOT 3 on different websites.
3. If we opt for concrete, how thick does it need to be?
4. What's the going rate for concrete? We're in Lincolnshire & will need to pay someone to lay it.
5. Is it a lot more expensive to have coloured concrete?

We would be having a concrete area just larger than the motorhome so drainage wont be a problem as we will probably be grassing the rest of the area.

Thanks for reading.

 

[two]

Any 'flexible' system is going to sink with time, unless placed on a well-prepared compacted bed. You can see where regular traffic passes over block paving, maybe because the sand it's laid on allows it. Just look at all the public areas, which I assume were prepared 'correctly', and how things have moved. Concrete will crack, even if reinforced, if the the ground below gives.
Don't overlook the need to remove a lot of soil first to get a decent base prepared.
Colouring of concrete shouldn't be too dear, but I'd expect patterning to cost more.
You could have fibres added to the concrete mix, to avoid the need for rebar reinforcement, but I don't know how good that'd be in comparison. I think it'd make laying easier. Don't over-work the finish or you'll get a 'skin' that peels away later.

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

Has any one mentioned reinforced concrete which is used where heavy duty surfaces are needed ? I believe it's mixed with fibres ti give extra strength.
Heavy duty rubble as a base will also give extra strength.

I would over engineer the area as much as your budget will allow.

AKA, "hairy concrete". The fibres are a modern take on traditional steel mesh. The fibres won't rust and no need for making sure of 40mm cover all around the mesh. Works well, and cheaper.
Mike.

 

[hblewett]

We have block paving on a driveway which previously had unreinforced concrete strips over clayey soil run over by cars and settling for 50 years. We have just had parts of the wheeltracks and lifted and levelled for the second time in 7 years of running our 4 tonne moho over it. With hindsight I would have put reinforced concrete under the wheeltracks then laid the blocks over them.

I would say to use MOT Type 1 as your subbase - that is a graded aggregate where all the 'spaces' are filled, so the 'stones' interlock to give some strength to the layer - a macadam without any 'tar' (bitumen nowadays) to bind it. I can't think how Type 3, with less fines, could possibly be better as it only provides spaces in the layer for the mud to squeeze up into. [There was no such thing as Type 3 when I retired from construction 15 years ago, so I'm not at all sure why it's been introduced - I expect there's material left over at the quarry, so it's cheaper and in some special circumstances can be use (like where the road formation is rock anyway and all that's needed is to level it out?)]

Even with the Type 1 it's important to put in a geotextile membrane - good quality - as a barrier between the ground and the subbase; it will reduce the amount of Type 1 needed anyway and minimise material 'mixing' between the layer from the movement as you pass over it. If you put in concrete strips reinforced with mesh along the wheeltracks at the same depth as the subbase, with the top to allow whatever you have as your finished driveway surface you should be set up for good. Don't run on the concete for a minimum of 7 days, and the longer up to 4 weeks, the better.

Finally, don't rely on guarantees - builders at this level aren't specialists in road pavement construction and know they won't be there when problems arise, so guarantees are worthless. Rely on your own judgement and check the depths of excavation and material that goes in and tell them you're going to when they come to quote - any that don't like that will disappear, so you should only be left with decent contractors who actually give you a price. The material is expensive and even saving 1 inch can add nicely to their profit. Spend the right money on the bits where the wheels run and if you're doing more you can reduce the spend where you just want it to look 'pretty'.

 

[Platelet]

Don’t scrimp on the sub base, it needs to be a substantial aggregate, it needs to be 100% level with at least 12” reinforced concrete with a very slight drop off for drainage. As your MH is sat on the hard standing, the weight is distributed to the 4 corners, which in turn puts stress on the middle section in between the wheelbase in an upward direction. As you drive off, once the front/rear wheels are off the pad then all the weight is moved from one end to the other. If the substrate is not level or substantial enough you will eventually finish up with a see-saw type motion, which will over time crack in the middle. The advice from a sectional double garage supplier/erector wouldn’t go amiss.

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[Blaydon]

Hi there. We had a poorly lai crazy paving drive. Over time it moved and became ever more difficult to drive up the slope.
we have had the old drive replaced with a printed concrete drive. It is coloured and apart from the expansion joints, is a weed free cover. We went down this route as the MoHo is 4.5 ton, and I do quite a bit of home care work. Jacking up heavy vehicles on block paving is not a great plan.
The company that did it, took out 150mm of base, filled it with hardcore and the concrete is 150mm. There is a mesh under the place we park the MoHo so when we lift it on the jacks, we won’t crack the surface.
I guess the key thing is - do your homework, work out what you need and can afford. Remember it is an long term purchase so pitch it as a 15 year investment.
good luck

 

[JJ]

Have you thought of waiting until some of our fulltiming cousins call around with some "over ordered" tar mac?

They might give you a special deal...

JJ

 

[TinSte]

Problem with coloured concrete is maintenance every year with a coat to seal it. It can also be very slippery when wet or icy

I had my drive done with resin bound gravel, this is also permeable and looks really good as you can get a good choice of colours

My initial choice was for resin bound gravel & even ordered some colour samples but I have been told it is really expensive per m2. Also, when going about my work (I am a delivery driver) I have seen resin bound gravel driveways which have looked very sad & stained. Maybe this was just shoddy workers, I don't know but it put me off.

How long has your driveway been done Jonny, & does it still look nearly as good as new?

 

[pampam]

I like grids with grass a neighbour down the road has just done this for his motorhome it looks good

 

[Jonny1953]

My initial choice was for resin bound gravel & even ordered some colour samples but I have been told it is really expensive per m2. Also, when going about my work (I am a delivery driver) I have seen resin bound gravel driveways which have looked very sad & stained. Maybe this was just shoddy workers, I don't know but it put me off.

How long has your driveway been done Jonny, & does it still look nearly as good as new?

It does cost more than imprinted concrete but less maintenance, I was told just to light jet wash once a year. I can't answer what it will be like in 5 or 6 years as mine has only been down for 10 months, but it still looks as new on the areas where there is footfall. In 9 months of that time the moho (okay, it's changed now) has sat in the same position and no sinking, but there was about 30cm of sub base and concrete with 5cm of resin bound on top.

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[TheDogMan]

I should have mentioned ours is blocks / bricks and they have never moved yet nor lost their colour

 

[minesapint]

Hi John,
Printed concrete is a really suitable alternative,
no weeds like with paviour bricks, no sinking over time
a choice of print patterns, flagstones - herring bone brickwork - cobbles etc
plus of course a choice of colours as well,
our drive was laid 20 years ago, and our van is 7.5 ton
and never had any problems, been recoloured twice in 20 years
" as has been said " do it right do it once.

We had printed concrete on the drive in part before getting to the area where the MoHo sat. It cracked up badly with the weight of the MoHo, so we ripped it up and did it properly with Block paving.

 

[DaMoe]

I had a concrete base laid a few years ago for a car and one for a 3.5 ton Moho at the time. The contractor said 4" for the car and 6" for the Moho, both with steel reinforcing mesh laid in the concrete. I think the car base was on 3" compacted hardcore and the Moho was on 4" of compacted hard core, all dug out to the required depth from what had been gardens. Last year I swapped to a 4.25 ton Moho and have had no problems. As others have said, preparation is important. My soil is quite clayish so I had an Arco drain also fitted in the Moho base. Hope this helps.

 

[Nanniemate]

2 rows of paving stones is quiet cost effective

 

[CazPaul]

Ours was initially a parking area for the Motorhome then decided to go the whole hog with a timber garage, a good sub base then concrete in steel mesh for the base.

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[EuroTrotters]

I'd check with the council what there rules are before you start as many now have restrictions on concrete areas due to lack of rain water run off. some areas allow only 2m2. not even sufficient for a shed base.

I’ll second that

 

[Landy Andy]

I'd check with the council what there rules are before you start as many now have restrictions on concrete areas due to lack of rain water run off. some areas allow only 2m2. not even sufficient for a shed base.

What are they going to do about it? I doubt they drive around areas looking for new oversize concrete areas.

 

[dunnah01]

If you allow a 2' permeable band of gravel or grass between the slab and the front wall then you can drain naturally to this and you won't need planning consent.

 

[TinSte]

What are they going to do about it? I doubt they drive around areas looking for new oversize concrete areas.

Me neither Andy but I do have a next door neighbour who complains about everything we do so wouldn't be surprised if the council "found out" !

 

[Dollysjg]

When laying blockading drives we put a courtweave material between the consolidated ground and 2 to4inches of consolidated mot1stone it acts like a bit of a trampelene it is used on most of our roads

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[Speve]

Gravel is considered a good security measure as it will crunch when someone is trying to pinch your van

 

[gus-lopez]

What are they going to do about it? I doubt they drive around areas looking for new oversize concrete areas.

as per post #20 requires planning permission. Someone complains. Or when you go to sell they ask everyting these days & have you the paperwork?
All this "permitted development rights" is ok until you wish to sell then you have to be able to prove that they existed, that you were entitled to use them & that you complied. Easier to do it correctly the first time. & they do investigate every complaint as it is in there interests, retrospective pp, fines, pp for demolition etc;etc; mate had a house for years rented out, neighbour kept an eye out. when he moved in to it himself & had an extension in to the garage the same neighbour called in the council; when he then had an extension on the back, the driveway widened , the driveway angle altered again ,the front asphalted, the neighbour got them out complaining every time.

Me neither Andy but I do have a next door neighbour who complains about everything we do so wouldn't be surprised if the council "found out" !

Exactly. Or the selling problem.