Near Disaster and wheel bolt torque settings!!

[Ray-Vic]

We had our E&P levelling system installed last week and thought we would go to a very local site (1 mile away) just for one night to try things out before heading to the Norfolk Broads this Thursday. Everything was great and the system is definitely everything we expected. However, on the way back to our storage I noticed a very faint knocking under braking from the rear nearside. As soon as I stopped I looked and was horrified to see one wheel bolt completely missing, two almost out and two just finger tight!

I was actually shaking thinking of what could/would have happened had we just headed off to Norfolk as we had planned without the overnight stop!!

I know in theory we are supposed to check things like this regularly, but do we actually do this with wheel bolts on every trip? I definitely don't (didn't) but will be more diligent now that's for sure!

I have checked the wheel for damage to the holes (elongation etc) and it appears fine, and have ordered a complete set of 5 replacement bolts as a friend said the others can now be stressed so should be replaced.

With regards to torque settings (yes I am going to loosen and retighten every wheel bolt before Thursday) I found it a nightmare to simply find the correct figure for my 16" alloy wheels, with suggestions of everything from 130 - 180 Nm, the majority seeming to plump for 160 Nm, so I phoned Bailey this morning and they were very helpful, quickly confirming that the 16" alloy wheel bolts require 180 Nm of torque.

I guess we definitely had a very lucky escape, so certainly worth a little check every now and then just to make sure all is in order on one of the most important bits.

 

[Ray-Vic]

Sounds to me like someone has tried to pinch your wheels while it been up on the levelling system. Locking wheel bolts is a definite must with these systems.

Yes I've ordered some, will be here Thursday.

 

[Ray-Vic]

Oddly enough, they do need to do that for a Ducato PVC, as explained to me this afternoon, due to the jack position (not a lot of room)

They did say they need to remove wheels on a tag axle (and presumably the one you mention).

 

[DuxDeluxe]

They did say they need to remove wheels on a tag axle (and presumably the one you mention).

Yes, come to think of it, he did mention tags when discussing mine yesterday

 

[pelican]

I was informed recently it was worth checking wheel nuts frequently owing to the poor condition of our roads.
Check all recently after 2500 miles including the the concrete thashing on the S E M25 and only 2 studs had slight movement.

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[Mike800966]

I was informed recently it was worth checking wheel nuts frequently owing to the poor condition of our roads.
Check all recently after 2500 miles including the the concrete thashing on the S E M25 and only 2 studs had slight movement.

Had a similar near disaster not long ago. Just wanted to point out that these wonderful electric nut runners can't be relied upon for a set torque and and to vouch for the effectiveness of the lidl torque wrenches which you often see in the stores, my wheel was saved by just two bolts and the drum retainers. A very near thing!
Mike

 

[Tony50]

Wheel nuts will almost never come slack on there own so if the fitter didn't have the wheels off then someone else has tampered with the wheel nuts.

To be honest you should never have to check and retighten your wheel nuts periodically, they just don't work themselves loose.

I'm afraid they do come loose, a experiment done many years ago by Brewery Bass Charrington and overviewed by their Fleet Engineering Director, the experiment was a selection of vehicles and trailers were selected and wheel torque checked every day for a period and some wheel fixings for no apparent reason were loose this was reported to me and about a dozen Fleet Engineers at our regular meetings. I always regularly check my wheel fixings for years since then.I once trusted a Caravan Dealer asking him twice were the wheel nuts torqued he said yes , wheel came off down the road, my fault,either get the wheels torqued in front of you or check yourself, I say this as I was too trusting, soon as you go on the road from a service or whatever you are responsible, don't blame EP it's you responsibility although of course they may !? have left them loose, just thank the lord you picked it up.

 

[Steve I]

I can't see any reason they would need to take the wheels off to fit EP jacks.

Space and accessibility I’d say, plus dirt off the wheels/tyres, I’d automatically assumed they’d have been off but still appalling fitter fail and very very fortunate to have chosen a local trial run …. Phew

 

[Adrianlle]

Count yourself lucky! I had a horrific experience last Spring in Sprinter based van. Driving along on my own through some sweeping beds on Exmoor. At about 50mph slight shimmy then Bang- nearside rear hub hit the road and in peripheral vision saw wheel rolling away into fields. Stopped facing the right way after terrifying period and much screeching. Then realised fast blind bend behind me so raced up road with Triangle and it got smashed by first car along. So then rang 999 coz worries about a car crashing into me and exploding the gas bottles. So felt like forever waving remnants of Triangle at approaching cars most of which took no notice at all. Miracle not a major accident until the police arrived 15 mins later. Eventually taken away on a recovery truck but on a section of road with low bridges. So at each bridge van had to be unloaded and then reloaded!
New expensive half shaft etc and all ok now. But has left me paranoid about wheel bolts. Mine had been into tyre place a week before accident but of course inference only and not proof that not torqued correctly. I was a gibbering wreck at time expecting an explosion at any moment and police told me , politely, that most drivers were idiots when it came to potential hazards around the next blind bend!

 

[Ode]

We had our E&P levelling system installed last week and thought we would go to a very local site (1 mile away) just for one night to try things out before heading to the Norfolk Broads this Thursday. Everything was great and the system is definitely everything we expected. However, on the way back to our storage I noticed a very faint knocking under braking from the rear nearside. As soon as I stopped I looked and was horrified to see one wheel bolt completely missing, two almost out and two just finger tight!

I was actually shaking thinking of what could/would have happened had we just headed off to Norfolk as we had planned without the overnight stop!!

I know in theory we are supposed to check things like this regularly, but do we actually do this with wheel bolts on every trip? I definitely don't (didn't) but will be more diligent now that's for sure!

I have checked the wheel for damage to the holes (elongation etc) and it appears fine, and have ordered a complete set of 5 replacement bolts as a friend said the others can now be stressed so should be replaced.

With regards to torque settings (yes I am going to loosen and retighten every wheel bolt before Thursday) I found it a nightmare to simply find the correct figure for my 16" alloy wheels, with suggestions of everything from 130 - 180 Nm, the majority seeming to plump for 160 Nm, so I phoned Bailey this morning and they were very helpful, quickly confirming that the 16" alloy wheel bolts require 180 Nm of torque.

I guess we definitely had a very lucky escape, so certainly worth a little check every now and then just to make sure all is in order on one of the most important bits.

I had a rear nearside wheel come off a few weeks back and motorhome suffered damaged ,still awaiting repairs to start .it absolutely scared the s..t out of me and wife .waited nearly 8hrs for recovery

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[TonyEmm]

Wheel nuts will almost never come slack on there own so if the fitter didn't have the wheels off then someone else has tampered with the wheel nuts.

To be honest you should never have to check and retighten your wheel nuts periodically, they just don't work themselves loose.

Wheels detaching from caravans & trailers was not an uncommon problem! Almost always near side…. Which, I believe is due to the direction of rotation of the wheel. On the offside, the wheel’s direction would actually help lock the nuts up.
Torquing wheel nuts is essential! They can be over tightened too which distorts a pressed steel wheel and if done to extremes, can stretch a bolt.

 

[Tea Bag]

Wheel nuts will almost never come slack on there own so if the fitter didn't have the wheels off then someone else has tampered with the wheel nuts.

To be honest you should never have to check and retighten your wheel nuts periodically, they just don't work themselves loose.

Hi.
Tipper site work. Drilled into the drivers... " Check your wheel nuts and U Bolts weekly ". Eight wheelers used to ease back and forth a bit after backing into the line to take the torque pressure off all the bits mentioned................ However,this was '66..... But i still check ours and put it in the vehicle diary..?? ( Old book in the cab ). Did car and m/ho monday,tomorrow we take up residence in " Campismo Municipal Praia de Mira " HQ "
" Keep your wheel nuts and your U bolts tight.... 10-4.." Tally HO !!
Tea Bag.
PS. IF the fitters changed a wheel over night, in those days,there would be a sticker on your dashboard saying so and to check your wheel nuts in 50 miles.

 

[Headrush]

Check wheel nuts every day. Of course they come loose, otherwise wheels wouldn't come off. Just because they shouldn't doesn't mean they won't. It's part of your daily checks for a reason. I've found 7 loose nuts on one wheel on a 32 tonne truck. This is months after a tyre had been changed.

 

[Northernraider]

Hi.
Tipper site work. Drilled into the drivers... " Check your wheel nuts and U Bolts weekly ". Eight wheelers used to ease back and forth a bit after backing into the line to take the torque pressure off all the bits mentioned................ However,this was '66..... But i still check ours and put it in the vehicle diary..?? ( Old book in the cab ). Did car and m/ho monday,tomorrow we take up residence in " Campismo Municipal Praia de Mira " HQ "
" Keep your wheel nuts and your U bolts tight.... 10-4.." Tally HO !!
Tea Bag.
PS. IF the fitters changed a wheel over night, in those days,there would be a sticker on your dashboard saying so and to check your wheel nuts in 50 miles.

That's on a truck which has very different wheel bolts , the merc vario has the Same where they are flat nuts on flat wheels with washers between that should be changed each time the wheels are removed or every 3rd time . The fiat ducato motorhomes however like most cars and vans have tapered wheel studs . They are less likely to work themselves loose.

That's why trucks often have markers on the wheel bolts so you can see at a glance if they've slackened off.


Incidentally my iveco based camper also has the truck style flat nuts wheel facings as it's on a truck chassis

 

[Northernraider]

Check wheel nuts every day. Of course they come loose, otherwise wheels wouldn't come off. Just because they shouldn't doesn't mean they won't. It's part of your daily checks for a reason. I've found 7 loose nuts on one wheel on a 32 tonne truck. This is months after a tyre had been changed.

That's a truck which has a completely different wheel bolt nut system.

If you check your car/ van wheelnuts everyday you're wasting your time.

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[Tea Bag]

That's on a truck which has very different wheel bolts , the merc vario has the Same where they are flat nuts on flat wheels with washers between that should be changed each time the wheels are removed or every 3rd time . The fiat ducato motorhomes however like most cars and vans have tapered wheel studs . They are less likely to work themselves loose.

That's why trucks often have markers on the wheel bolts so you can see at a glance if they've slackened off.

Hi.
When i started out, some vehicle wheels were left and right hand thread,depending which side you were standing........ THAT tested your brain just after midnight....... MONDAY morning.
Tea Bag

 

[Northernraider]

Hi.
When i started out, some vehicle wheels were left and right hand thread,depending which side you were standing........ THAT tested your brain just after midnight....... MONDAY morning.
Tea Bag

Aye I've had them too years back , not sure if any of the modern ones still do that.

 

[TonyEmm]

Hi.
When i started out, some vehicle wheels were left and right hand thread,depending which side you were standing........ THAT tested your brain just after midnight....... MONDAY morning.
Tea Bag

Rubery Owen used to fit l/h thread wheel nuts to the near side of their torsion bar axles on cat O2 trailers. Didn’t entirely eliminate the problem though!

 

[L' Hobo]

It's slightly worrying, just how many on here, have had a wheel come loose.
Can I ask, are most of these steel or aluminium?
Mine are steel on all my vehicles and never had one come loose in 50+yes.
After removal, I tighten up, check again after about 20miles with a tapping hammer, and then replace wheel trims.

PS. One must remember that every time one torques a stud to the correct torque, one is stretch that stud just a little more (or so I was told when I was a junior engineer?)

 

[Headrush]

That's a truck which has a completely different wheel bolt nut system.

If you check your car/ van wheelnuts everyday you're wasting your time.

Tell that to the OP.

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[Northernraider]

Tell that to the OP.

I already have. I repeat if the wheels were not removed by the company fitting the Jack's then someone didn't tighten them up when last removed. The fact it's the back ones that only ever go straight and not the front which are subject to side pressure while being turned only backs that up. Someone has slackened the bolts on his rear wheels at somepoint and not tightened them again. They don't just work loose.

 

[Headrush]

How would you ever know if you never check them?

 

[Northernraider]

How would you ever know if you never check them?

34 years working on vehicles. And having a wide circle of friends who also work on vehicles. Wheel nuts on cars and vans are designed not to work loose. They are a completely different set up to those on trucks.

 

[Thornebt]

I have generally added a smear of copper grease to wheel bolt threads when fitting. I recently found out that you shouldn't apply any type of lube to them. I always use a torque wrench though and have never had one come loose.

 

[Northernraider]

I have generally added a smear of copper grease to wheel bolt threads when fitting. I recently found out that you shouldn't apply any type of lube to them. I always use a torque wrench though and have never had one come loose.

Aye you're not supposed to put grease on wheel bolts. Although lots of people do it.

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[Ray-Vic]

I had a rear nearside wheel come off a few weeks back and motorhome suffered damaged ,still awaiting repairs to start .it absolutely scared the s..t out of me and wife .waited nearly 8hrs for recovery

I can well imagine! It shook me and I didn't have the wheel come off!

I did manage to get a replacement bolt but today, a day early, my locking wheel bolts turned up so I am putting them on tonight in readiness for our trip to Norfolk tomorrow.

It's really odd as I am normally very laid back and don't get flustered, but this has made me almost a bit paranoid and when adding the extra bolt earlier I went round and checked all the bolts again, even though the vehicle hasn't moved!!

 

[DucatoMan2]

I like the idea of marking bolt position. I'll do that, as I lost a wheel off the (luckily 4 wheel) trailer after it had been standing over winter- it went within a mile.
Reading this thread confirms my opinion it must have been tampered with, though seems too much effort for those brainless enough to do it.