N&B CBE control panel and general 12v shenanigans!

[funflair]

Abercist is right Martin is really good he really is a wealth of knowledge he has helped us on many occasions.

Well thank you, I know enough to know that I don't know much about the CBE system to go messing with it myself so I would be heading to the factory where they know a lot more than me

 

[JockandRita]

Well thank you, I know enough to know that I don't know much about the CBE system to go messing with it myself so I would be heading to the factory where they know a lot more than me

And if Martin couldn't help us out, that would be our choice too.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[funflair]

As Jock says the system would not like 2x12v, is it possible that the old batteries were 6v in series and fitting 12v would need to terminals configuring differently.

 

[JockandRita]

is it possible that the old batteries were 6v in series

I'd forgotten of that possible situation Martin, even though we had it on the Hymer. That would make sense, especially if the 12v system is found to be undamaged, which I hope is the case for Taff.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Taff015]

old batteries were 12v 120ah jobbies. I may have been wrong, but they are definitely now in parallel. Im leaning towards needing a new distribution box and controller with a charger thrown in. That was my initial thought anyway. Looks like I'm Travelworld bound regardless!!

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[JockandRita]

Looks like I'm Travelworld bound regardless!!

Unlucky Taff.

Jock.

 

[Taff015]

Unlucky Taff.

Jock.

Its cool. I had planned for that eventuality anyway. Got a good enough deal on the Flair anyway!

 

[Taff015]

I've just reread the CBE manual........ I think (I change my mind a lot!) that the issue could indeed be the battery charger. The system doesn't know what voltage the leisure batteries or the vehicle are and enters Minimum Voltage Control. That would explain why the overhead lights and pump are not working and the rest are only working when the SOS fuses are in.

Yes it could be an issue with the panel and distribution box but it may be worth a punt in finding a charger? Trouble is I have no idea what to buy!!! Logic would dictate that a CBE charger would be the best option?

 

[funflair]

I've just reread the CBE manual........ I think (I change my mind a lot!) that the issue could indeed be the battery charger. The system doesn't know what voltage the leisure batteries or the vehicle are and enters Minimum Voltage Control. That would explain why the overhead lights and pump are not working and the rest are only working when the SOS fuses are in.

Yes it could be an issue with the panel and distribution box but it may be worth a punt in finding a charger? Trouble is I have no idea what to buy!!! Logic would dictate that a CBE charger would be the best option?

Well it might be complicating things but a "mass combi" inverter charger with mains network compensation is a great bit of kit if you are in the habit of using site hookup with low amperage and want all your mains 240v stuff to work, otherwise if the charger is working I can't see it causing a problem so would stick with it for a while, I used to switch ours off and just run on solar on Spanish sites with metered electric so the system doesn't need to see the charger as long as the batteries are up at 12.6 ish volts.

A luck of voltage sensing would explain why the SOS fuse was being used

 

[Taff015]

I think the issue is that the control panel doesn't know what the correct Volt reading for the batteries are which is why its defaulting to the SOS option. Im just trying to figure out if changing the charger to a CBE unit will allow me to plug something into the distribution box which then tells the panel that all is ok and allows the system to boot normally..

or am I weeing in the wind?!!!

unless theres a way of telling the control panel to ignore the battery warining?

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[Taff015]

Well it might be complicating things but a "mass combi" inverter charger with mains network compensation is a great bit of kit if you are in the habit of using site hookup with low amperage and want all your mains 240v stuff to work, otherwise if the charger is working I can't see it causing a problem so would stick with it for a while, I used to switch ours off and just run on solar on Spanish sites with metered electric so the system doesn't need to see the charger as long as the batteries are up at 12.6 ish volts.

A luck of voltage sensing would explain why the SOS fuse was being used

just reread your post!!

i wonder how I will be able to figure out how the panel senses the voltage?

 

[funflair]

just reread your post!!

i wonder how I will be able to figure out how the panel senses the voltage?

My guess would be that a lot of the clever stuff is on the "control card" but it's way beyond my skill set.

 

[sillybug]

Ok wil try and explain what happened to ours it may help.

All was fine went to van discovered totally flat leisure batteries no lights nothing,so started van up charger went into overdrive we switched engine off immediately could smell something had fried which turned out to be fuse box
which at this point did all what you have done then had charger checked and it was fine so then took out fuse box Checked by applejack which needed replacing .So at this point I only needed a new fuse box and repair on panel by applejack who did a great job .

The worst part of this was TW who were useless until I telephoned Christian at polch who told me the part was never even ordered by TW although they had taken payment 10 to 12 weeks before this part arrived 3 days after calling factory strange that.
I feel there may have been a little bit of sour grapes on TW part because we rang them first never again .
We will use reliance or as Martin has said go to Germany .

hope this helps in some way.

 

[Taff015]

Ok wil try and explain what happened to ours it may help.

All was fine went to van discovered totally flat leisure batteries no lights nothing,so started van up charger went into overdrive we switched engine off immediately could smell something had fried which turned out to be fuse box
which at this point did all what you have done then had charger checked and it was fine so then took out fuse box Checked by applejack which needed replacing .So at this point I only needed a new fuse box and repair on panel by applejack who did a great job .

The worst part of this was TW who were useless until I telephoned Christian at polch who told me the part was never even ordered by TW although they had taken payment 10 to 12 weeks before this part arrived 3 days after calling factory strange that.
I feel there may have been a little bit of sour grapes on TW part because we rang them first never again .
We will use reliance or as Martin has said go to Germany .

hope this helps in some way.

Thanks for the info. I may well have to go down that route!

I have found a +net cable that isn't plugged into anything but its part of the battery charger cable run. I am wondering if this is the culprit!!! I may run a cable from the battery pos to that one... Its a hail mary but hey ho!!!

 

[Taff015]

My guess would be that a lot of the clever stuff is on the "control card" but it's way beyond my skill set.

mine too!!

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[Taff015]

Thanks for the info. I may well have to go down that route!

I have found a +net cable that isn't plugged into anything but its part of the battery charger cable run. I am wondering if this is the culprit!!! I may run a cable from the battery pos to that one... Its a hail mary but hey ho!!!

Nope...... Im wrong, the +net wire is for trickle charging the vehicle battery!!

 

[Taff015]

Right.....

I've found a new CBE battery charger on ebay, virtually similar to the OEM so that will be going in when it arrives.

I've spoken to Chris at Reliance who has been absolutely brilliant and has managed to source for me the last ever distribution board available for my Flair from Germany. The fuse box and control panel are no longer available.

I hope that the issue will be remedied with the distribution box as this houses the ammeter which will hopefully give the correct voltage reading to the system and allow it to boot up.

So far, charger and distribution box = £500

Failing that, Apuljack will look at the control panel and the fuse box and try and fix. They can't guarantee anything of course but its worth a punt.

If all that fails..... I'm looking at creating a separate 12v system with just the pump and the ceiling lights on it utilizing one of the leisure batteries. No idea how mind but the idea is there!!!!!

 

[JockandRita]

Right.....

I've found a new CBE battery charger on ebay, virtually similar to the OEM so that will be going in when it arrives.

I've spoken to Chris at Reliance who has been absolutely brilliant and has managed to source for me the last ever distribution board available for my Flair from Germany. The fuse box and control panel are no longer available.

I hope that the issue will be remedied with the distribution box as this houses the ammeter which will hopefully give the correct voltage reading to the system and allow it to boot up.

So far, charger and distribution box = £500

Failing that, Apuljack will look at the control panel and the fuse box and try and fix. They can't guarantee anything of course but its worth a punt.

If all that fails..... I'm looking at creating a separate 12v system with just the pump and the ceiling lights on it utilizing one of the leisure batteries. No idea how mind but the idea is there!!!!!

As before Taff, good luck with it all.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Abacist]

I have my fingers well and truly crossed for you!

 

[jongood]

Am I missing something? what is the Victron doing? my limited knowledge suggests that it surely would have made the CBE charger redundant?

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[Taff015]

Am I missing something? what is the Victron doing? my limited knowledge suggests that it surely would have made the CBE charger redundant?

At the moment the victron is sitting on the floor of my garage. its been making strange noises and had odd wires hanging out of it that had been cut so I sourced a CBE unit comparable with the original. the Hab report was showing an overcharge to the original batteries. I didnt trust it to not to cause (more) damage to the system so removed it

 

[Taff015]

Weekend update.....

Everything works. Lights pump etc all working. the panel is still showing the attached however....

I'm at a loss. all I've done is change the battery charger. I did wiggle a few fuses by the Alde system this morning.


I suspect it will go off again later!!! loose wire somewhere perhaps? or just the distribution board having a moment?

the water levels and battery levels (less the vehicle battery) are showing full. None of these show up when its not working.....

its not something as simple as the connection cable having a dodgy wire perhaps?

 

[JockandRita]

That's exactly the same panel as mine Taff, including the same switches, albeit a couple are optional only.

I wonder if the error message would disappear when a serviceable cab battery is installed, ie, is the panel looking for something which isn't there, but should be. It's just a thought.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Taff015]

That's exactly the same panel as mine Taff, including the same switches, albeit a couple are optional only.

I wonder if the error message would disappear when a serviceable cab battery is installed, ie, is the panel looking for something which isn't there, but should be. It's just a thought.

Cheers,

Jock.

At this point I have no idea!!! the vehicle starts fine. The cab battery was flat last week and I charged it no problem.

I may just get a new one anyway. just for the sake of removing a possible issue!

 

[JockandRita]

The cab battery was flat last week and I charged it no problem.

So, is the panel showing the voltage at the point the battery was removed for charging, ie, in it's memory?

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[Taff015]

God knows, I've reset it that many times this week, I have no idea!!

It still all stems back to the ammeter on the Distribution board I think.

Will know soon enough when part arrives.

First thing this morning it wasn't working./ I was faffing about trying to figure out why the fridge and Alde system aren't working on Gas. next thing I know, the pump is working! (I have a habit of turning a tap on just in case!)

 

[Abacist]

My ammeter has never ever worked or rather displayed on the control panel! Polch wondered if I had one fitted. Surely they should know - they built it! Anyway a lot of tech activity on the panel could not produce anything! I wonder if its a common issue? Why would I have a shunt to assess the input and output from the hab batteries if I have no ammeter? Anyway, I manage without!

 

[Taff015]

I honestly couldn’t care less about the control panel. I just want the pump to work when i turn on a tap!

panel has reset and now showing nothing full, batteries, tanks etc. Pump still working even when the pump switched off!..... it like a petulant teenager!

if I could rip it all out and start from scratch I would. I can’t see why a simple thing like lights and a water pump require all this jiggery pokery!

 

[Taff015]

Well, I can say this.....

she doesn’t leak!! By Christ it’s moist today, never been to Lake District before. I thought Wales was wet.....

gave up (temporarily) on the 12v issues. Will source/get fixed the other parts after Xmas. I’ve fixed the pump (both internal and external) by creating my own feed/switch. Took me all day Sunday to run the wires and switch! But I have running water And I can remove the system once the electrics are fixed

 

[Taff015]

Necroing my own thread!!! Just as a heads up. I have fixed everything!!!! The final thing I did that actually worked was to fit a vanblitz doofer. As soon as I did that, everything started working and has for months now! So next time I have 12v issues, I will do the vanblitz thing first!!!!

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