My front brake disks are very hot is this normal.

Lambo

Lambo

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My front brake disks on my fiat ducato 2.3 2003 seem realy hot is this normal
 
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Techniques change .... Students now told to sit at traffic lights in 1st gear, with feet on clutch and footbrake.

I learned to drive while I was at boarding school. An instructor taught a group of us. We started with classroom lessons, then a (very) crude simulator for gears and pedals. We then graduated to driving round the school grounds, before being allowed on the road.

He insisted that when we came to a stop, we put the handbrake on and then selected neutral.

He used to carry a 2 foot length of square section 3/8" hardwood dowel which he would use to strike our knuckles if we touched the gear lever before applying the handbrake!
 
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Lambo said:
My front brake disks on my fiat ducato 2.3 2003 seem realy hot is this normal
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Should brake discs get hot? | Kwik Fit
https://www.kwik-fit.com › blog › should-brake-discs-get-hot
For standard road cars, you should expect your brake discs to reach around 130°C. The brake discson track cars can reach around 500°C, but these vehicles are built so they can cope with such an extreme temperature. If you're frequently braking, without allowing time for your brakes to cool back down, you could experience brake fade.


The above is from Kwik fit but race brake discs normally operate between 400 and 600 degrees also you know when your brakes are getting hot as you can smell them.
 
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In my opinion the Ducato brakes are on the small side for a MH which is at the maximum weight. Plus, the unconverted Ducato van or truck chassis has a limit of 4.2 tonnes so a 5000 Kg MH is pushing the standard brake capacity quite a lot further.

Using the gears and engine braking as well as cadence braking with the foot pedal must provide a better margin of safety when descending hills. As Pausim pointed out the Comfortmatic gearbox is programmed to downshift automatically. If the "Up" mode is on the engine braking becomes quite dramatic on steep hills.

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Using the brakes indicates you haven't anticipated far enough ahead. I often wonder how much more fuel those that rush past towards a red light and brake rather than arrive just as they change and select third or possibly second and pull away smoothly.

If you want hot discs:-
1641143836811.png
 
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cyberyacht said:
Using the brakes indicates you haven't anticipated far enough ahead.
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Probably not if your using your brakes appropriately.

At lemans a group B car may brake 300 metres before a bend and a prototype 100 metres or less both will have anticipated in advance of how when and how much.
 
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cyberyacht said:
I know we get some who think they are at Le Mans round here but that wasn't what I had in mind.
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Maybe not but using your bakes is a good thing, it doesn’t mean racing around or speeding but being engaged. Just using your engine to slow is not an a anticipatory driving style.

Using engine braking also wastes fuel
 
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Coolcats said:
Maybe not but using your bakes is a good thing, it doesn’t mean racing around or speeding but being engaged. Just using your engine to slow is not an a anticipatory driving style.

Using engine braking also wastes fuel
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Im interested in what driving style you suggest ?
Anticipating a hazard ahead or red light and lifting off well in advance to allow the engine to slow the vehicle is far preferable to driving up to it then braking surely.
Throttle off, fuel consumption is minimal anyway, what do you recommend, rolling in neutral ?

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Coolcats said:
Maybe not but using your bakes is a good thing, it doesn’t mean racing around or speeding but being engaged. Just using your engine to slow is not an a anticipatory driving style.

Using engine braking also wastes fuel
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fI would think most modern cars/van will turn off fuel on the overrun so save fuel.
 
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Figaro said:
It's a bit like changing down through the gearbox when approaching red traffic lights, we were all trained to change down, then you were ready to accelerate away when the lights change to green - not anymore. Learners are instructed to approach lights in top gear, putting it into neutral just before coming to a halt.
I never understand why that is a supposed to be a "better" way to drive
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Because it is cheaper to replace brake pads than a clutch.
 
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Figaro said:
Im interested in what driving style you suggest ?
Anticipating a hazard ahead or red light and lifting off well in advance to allow the engine to slow the vehicle is far preferable to driving up to it then braking surely.
Throttle off, fuel consumption is minimal anyway, what do you recommend, rolling in neutral ?
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The driving style adopted is conditional to the conditions that you find yourself in and adapted to the vehicle you drive.
 
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Sitting with a vehicle in gear, but idle and with the foot depressed on the clutch, is one of the worst things you can do. The clutch release bearing is tiny, has no oil to lubricant it and suffers from a lot of heat build up when engaged and pushing the clutch pressure plate down. All this does is wear it out prematurely and why they can end up making so much noise in the bell housing of the gearbox. You can hear the wear and noise, which usually quietens down when the clutch pedal is pressed and then noisy again when released. If this is the case, then it’s usually attributed to wear on the tiny release bearing.

Same as when people drive around with their foot resting on the clutch peddle, allowing the bearing to make an interference contact with the pressure plate and more premature wear.

I always put the vehicles I drive in neutral whenever I can, even for the shortest amount of time.
 
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Coolcats said:
The driving style adopted is conditional to the conditions that you find yourself in and adapted to the vehicle you drive.
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That’s great, but if the new drivers have been taught to go to the lights/stop/junction in top then throw it in neutral as you come to a halt, they won’t KNOW how to, or even more important it won’t become second nature to use the box. I’ve SEEN a new driver slide through a crossing on a frosty morning by coming up to the crossing in top then brake in neutral, thankfully they was on the other side of the road🤷‍♂️ Yes probably a bit of inexperience in there too.
I will always stick to gearing down, I will never change, even auto boxs change down when you’re slowing down👍

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Figaro said:
Im interested in what driving style you suggest ?
Anticipating a hazard ahead or red light and lifting off well in advance to allow the engine to slow the vehicle is far preferable to driving up to it then braking surely.
Throttle off, fuel consumption is minimal anyway, what do you recommend, rolling in neutral ?
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Avoidable braking wastes more fuel than many drivers realise. Anticipation also saves fuel. Better to lift off early, and let the vehicle slow down, than barrel along and brake at the last minute. Ideally you arrive at the back of the queue when the vehicles in front are moving again, the lights having turned green, so you are in 2nd gear and not needing to stop at all.

Impatient idiots overtaking or even undertaking you in order to reach the red lights first and having to brake harder ... why?
 
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poppycamper said:
And how inconsiderate... sitting with foot on brake and blinding cars behind with high intensity brake lights. One of my pet hates...😎😎😎😎😎
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I'm guessing you haven't been rear-ended by White Van Man while stationary at traffic lights, as I was?

Rear fog lights left on in good visibility - that's a different matter.

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tonyidle said:
And as more vehicles use auto gearboxes it becomes a moot point anyway.
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I have an automatic, downhill I select manual and change down, the box will not let me do anything to harm it and will change gear even in manual if if disagrees with my selection. I was always taught to save the brakes on a long downhill run as if they overheat they will stop working.
 
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SpeedyDux said:
I'm guessing you haven't been rear-ended by White Van Man while stationary at traffic lights, as I was?

Rear fog lights left on in good visibility - that's a different matter.
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So are you saying you were sat at lights with foot on brakes and still got rear ended... or you have started sitting at lights with foot on brake after being rear ended.
I would like to bet if white van man rear ended you he was either... on his phone....checking sat nav.... checking clip board to see where next delivery is... opening a can of ginger and generally not paying attention etc etc. So he would have hit you regardless if wether you had brake lights on or not.
 
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poppycamper said:
So are you saying you were sat at lights with foot on brakes and still got rear ended... or you have started sitting at lights with foot on brake after being rear ended.
I would like to bet if white van man rear ended you he was either... on his phone....checking sat nav.... checking clip board to see where next delivery is... opening a can of ginger and generally not paying attention etc etc. So he would have hit you regardless if wether you had brake lights on or not.
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Brake lights were less bright in 2002. Today's LED ones are brilliant. Hard not to see them.

Mine was an auto so it is normal practice to use the foot brake while stationary. I also left a gap. Because of that, my car didn't shoot forward far enough to hit the car in front. If only the handbrake had been on and the gearbox in neutral, it could have been damaged at the front end as well. And the car in front would have had damage. I had a whiplash injury.

Cops told me he was a suspected disqualified driver they had wanted to catch. He fled the scene before the cops arrived. Not sure if that had any bearing on why he didn't brake until too late, unless he was drunk; but obviously he did fail to see the lights were on red and didn't notice the line of stopped cars, with mine at the back. Anyway, the van's insurers paid up.
 
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The Ex-Gasman said:
I have an automatic, downhill I select manual and change down, the box will not let me do anything to harm it and will change gear even in manual if if disagrees with my selection. I was always taught to save the brakes on a long downhill run as if they overheat they will stop working.
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I meant when approaching traffic lights etc. There's always a need to use engine braking on steep and/or long downhill sections.
 
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poppycamper said:
All the more reason not to blind the cars sitting behind you 😎😎😎😎
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Only when I am 100% satisfied that the vehicle behind has actually stopped ... and the one behind that ... you can get flip-up polarising shades ... just sayin'

If vehicle manufacturers wanted to solve this issue, they could make brake lights that auto-dim after a couple of seconds, when stationary. I would support that innovation. Why don't you write to your MP and suggest changing the Regs for new cars etc?

And another thing - I wonder if it causes more annoyance to have to wait for the car in front to engage gear (or D which means you MUST put a foot on the footbrake - and if it was in Park it will flash the reversing lights at you, which can be alarming - remember it's an auto) and then release the parking brake before moving off. If everyone in a line of traffic did that, the lights would go back to red after only a handful of vehicles get through on green. Frustrating, when that happens. Which it often does.
 
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Years ago it used to be a nick for not applying the hand brake at a stop junction and a test fail , ie a solid white line not a broken one.
 
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SpeedyDux said:
And another thing - I wonder if it causes more annoyance to have to wait for the car in front to engage gear (or D which means you MUST put a foot on the footbrake -
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Not really... have to wait anyway for car in front to restart after stop/start stopped it.!
 
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poppycamper said:
Not really... have to wait anyway for car in front to restart after stop/start stopped it.!
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Neither of my vehicles has stop/start. Especially the Honda hybrid. Anyway this is OT discussion is going round in ever decreasing circles.

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SpeedyDux said:
I'm guessing you haven't been rear-ended by White Van Man while stationary at traffic lights, as I was?

Rear fog lights left on in good visibility - that's a different matter.
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I was rear ended, when I spoke with the diver he state that he was 'Still asleep' !! Another time I was rear ended the driver managed to hit me pushing me forward and then a second time (I was starting to thing it was getting personal). The I went to speak to him he started crying and said it was his Mums car ( he was in his mid 30's)!!

Seriously though for those who choose to just use gears to slow, you may find that those behind who are rushing past may be a little frustrated by the slowing process, they will not realise what you are 'anticipating' and have not seen your brake lights or not wanting to use you brakes and causing frustration with lack of progress. All the other driver sees is a large MoHo slowing down and lack of progress with a chance to get past. Not saying it is right but a bit of application using the brakes instead of gears can help reduce this type of frustration.

For those who haven't had a refresh for many years or want to check thier driving style The IAM do some great courses, they will sort out who's Spartacus might be ;)
 
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