Motorhoming v Narrowboating ?

[Eggs]

Some of you may be interested in our initial start-up costs for the boat - so here goes.

Firstly, there is the cost of the boat which from my recent experience falls into one of the following categories. This is just how I see the market at the moment so it doesn't hold any real substance in the boating world:

Category-1: Higher end new narrowboats costing c£150,000.

Category-2: Low end new boats with poor quality internal fitouts: sub £100,000.

Category-3: Good quality and we'll spec'd secondhand boats: £60,000 to £90,000.

Category-4: Older boats, bigger boats, smaller 'quality' boats, poor quality boats, boats needing work: Various prices below £60,000.

We've gone for a Cat-3 boat as it made perfect sense to get something that was well spec'd and had a good pedigree.

The following annual start-up costs are intrinsic to my 'plan for the worst' scenerio and come to a total of c.£16,300 for the first 12-months albeit I'm expecting a figure closer to £11,000 If lady luck chooses to be on our side.

Also, be aware that some moorings can cost a fortune and may range from a few quid per month on the edge of a farmer's field right through to £16,000+ in London.

All costs specified include any immediate payment discounts:

1. Marina mooring: £2,700.
2. C&RT License: £985.
3. Survey and boat cranes: £1,100.
4. Cranes, Blacking, anodes in 2021: £1,300.
5. Annual insurance: £150.
6. Extra solar and new T-105 batteries: £1,570.
7. Engine and boat Serviceables: £500.
8. Electricity and gas: £400.
9. White diesel (1500 litres): £1,680.
10. Initial equipment purchase: £500.
11. River Rescue: £220.
12. Other Crusing costs: £300.
13. Extra contingency fund: £5,000.

.......and that's about it folks.

Hope it helps you budding boaters

All the best,

Andrew

I'd presume if the boat is coming out for a pre sale servuy that you would black it and get anodes attached. Presuming again, that you are happy to go ahead with the purchase.

 

[Blue Knight]

I'd presume if the boat is coming out for a pre sale servuy that you would black it and get anodes attached. Presuming again, that you are happy to go ahead with the purchase.

We've been really fortunate to get a 1-day window for the use of the crane since all of the other dates in Sep and Oct (and now Nov) have all been allocated.

It has also been a real challenge to get a good surveyor who is available at a time when I can crane it out too.

The narrowboat market seems to have gone off the scales since the post lockdown phase and I have to say now that I'll be pleased when the whole process is over.

 

[PhilMary]

You're a sharp one Phil

Yes, the red diesel can be used for now but that'll change in early 2021 with the implementation of the new government legislation where it'll revert to white only.

You'll still be able to use red diesel for heating 'only' but this change for most boaters will mean the addition of a seperate diesel tank for their heating needs; this is likely to be uneconomical for most.

........so for the time being I have to calculate my costs on white-only for now.

All the best,

Andrew

This being the case are all the farmers not up in arms, because I think they use red diesel exclusively?
Any farmers like to comment?
Phil

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

This being the case are all the farmers not up in arms, because I think they use red diesel exclusively?
Any farmers like to comment?
Phil

I think that the issue with Pink /Red diesel is still on going. Its not set in stone yet because the farmers would have a blue fit if they had to use white diesel.
As far as our friends who live on board are aware , the red diesel issue is still to be sorted. It is not sorted yet and it will still be going on as far as they can see from what River Canal Boat services are stating. Its worth watching as regards the time and date. Dont think it will be ready to go ahead just yet purely because of the agricultural issues.

Kev

 

[Blue Knight]

I think that the issue with Pink /Red diesel is still on going. Its not set in stone yet because the farmers would have a blue fit if they had to use white diesel.
As far as our friends who live on board are aware , the red diesel issue is still to be sorted. It is not sorted yet and it will still be going on as far as they can see from what River Canal Boat services are stating. Its worth watching as regards the time and date. Dont think it will be ready to go ahead just yet purely because of the agricultural issues.

Kev

Quite right Kev. The full consultation finishes tomorrow, 1st Oct, so we'll see how things develop but, for the sake of my budget, I'm keeping my white diesel cost figures for now.

The farmers are unaffected according to Rishi.

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[PhilMary]

Talk about joined up thinking.
Phil

 

[emjaiuk]

Yes, exactly that.

Some of the marinas are jammed full of boats that never leave their moorings for travel on either the inland system or the sea/choppy water.

We've come across a few people who have spent a fortune on their cruisers, yachts and plastic boats, only to realise that a trip out will a.) Cost a fortune in fuel and, b.) is a complete arse to move - so they don't move them and the boats just sit there bobbing away.

That said, a good number of the widebeams and a few thousand Narrowboats don't ever move from their permanent moorings either as their fulltime liveaboard owners need to be close to their work.

....................

Trips out can add considerable amounts to maintenance costs as well. We back onto one of the biggest marinas on the Upper Thames, and it always amazes me that people buy expensive powerful cruisers totally unsuited for river work. Going out out for a few hours occasionally doesn’t do their engines any good at all, but it keeps the marine engineers in business

 

[Blue Knight]

A quick update for you guys (i.e. just in case you're all thinking that we're having a great time on the water).

Well then, the surveyor came back to us with a list of problems and defects that would stretch further than a giraffes neck, with the ultimate comment being "don't take it out on the water as it's unsafe".

Wow, fantatsic, said we, that sounds like a "gem of a boat" or a "fantastic go-anywhere boat" as per the brokers sales speak.

In the end we rejected it and we're now in the rather awkward position of trying to recover our deposit.

The Broker has already sold it again but is clearly loathed to hand back our dosh (and before anyone asks there is no scope in the contract for him to retain our money).

This has turned out to be a bloody nightmare of rather large proportions so I reckon we'll just keep the motorhome-thing going for now and see how next year unfolds.

Otherwise, all is good!!

 

[CazPaul]

That's a shame Andrew but its a good job you had a report commissioned so a lucky escape although they should immediately hand back your deposit.

Get out in that lovely Globecar now.

 

[funflair]

What a bummer but at least you found out before you went and sank it.

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[scotzsue]

Son bought and lived on a narrowboat, seen at a a local brokers (16 years ago), fortunately hadn't put a deposit on it. His then wife was chatting to a friend and mentioned it, got the response, that is my dad's boat and it is not up for sale! They did eventually buy it, for much less than the broker was asking. All because original owner had said in the passing, I'm not using the boat so much now.
Always sharks about, even in canals.

 

[nicholsong]

Son bought and lived on a narrowboat, seen at a a local brokers (16 years ago), fortunately hadn't put a deposit on it. His then wife was chatting to a friend and mentioned it, got the response, that is my dad's boat and it is not up for sale! They did eventually buy it, for much less than the broker was asking. All because original owner had said in the passing, I'm not using the boat so much now.
Always sharks about, even in canals.

One advantage of having a boat on tthe full Ships Register is that there is a legal record of ownership, so cannot be sold other than by the genuine owner.

Geoff

 

[Eggs]

It's not uncommon with Narrowboat sales, the amount of times I saw people get excited about getting a new boat only then to find out at survey time it wasn't anywhere near how it was described in the adverts. Like Motorhome dealers there are good and bad dealers/brokers.

 

[Wildbill]

Nicky and I saw our first incident of narrowboat rage the other day when a rental boat cut up a regular boater and then crashed into a moored boat.

The hobby is not without its problems but the regular boaters are a very friendly bunch of folk.

I didn't know that you were a former liveaboard?

boating is a contact sport
bill

 

[Blue Knight]

That's a shame Andrew but its a good job you had a report commissioned so a lucky escape although they should immediately hand back your deposit.

Get out in that lovely Globecar now.

Hi Paul, the Globecar option is looking very favourable after the last few weeks - we've been through the ringer for sure.

I'm sure the money will be forthcoming but it's his arrogance that amazes me.

I read a good comment the other day where it was said that a boat broker is a combination of the worst part of an estate agent plus the worst part of a car salesman. There are some good ones out there but I've not chosen wisely on this occassion.

That said, you can only deal with the person or broker who is selling the exact boat you want to buy.

As said before the Globecar option sounds good to me.

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[Blue Knight]

It's not uncommon with Narrowboat sales, the amount of times I saw people get excited about getting a new boat only then to find out at survey time it wasn't anywhere near how it was described in the adverts. Like Motorhome dealers there are good and bad dealers/brokers.

I read about things like that every day and with so much demand for boats these days even the really crappy boats are achieving a sale.

The Broker who we dealt with was adamant (before we signed the contract) that the boat was in a fantastic liveaboard conditon and that we didn't need a survey. He provided a hull-only survey from two owners ago and it's this document that he was using to peddle the boat to us.

I'm just pleased that we commissioned a survey from a guy who takes extreme pride in his work.

However, during the survey itself the Broker at one point even said (referring to the surveyor): "he's checking everything, this will take ages".

It's no wonder that the git didn't want the boat examining!

 

[Blue Knight]

What a bummer but at least you found out before you went and sank it.

I couldn't agree more Martin - it was a right bummer but so was the broker!

 

[nicholsong]

A quick update for you guys (i.e. just in case you're all thinking that we're having a great time on the water).

Well then, the surveyor came back to us with a list of problems and defects that would stretch further than a giraffes neck, with the ultimate comment being "don't take it out on the water as it's unsafe".

Wow, fantatsic, said we, that sounds like a "gem of a boat" or a "fantastic go-anywhere boat" as per the brokers sales speak.

In the end we rejected it and we're now in the rather awkward position of trying to recover our deposit.

The Broker has already sold it again but is clearly loathed to hand back our dosh (and before anyone asks there is no scope in the contract for him to retain our money).

This has turned out to be a bloody nightmare of rather large proportions so I reckon we'll just keep the motorhome-thing going for now and see how next year unfolds.

Otherwise, all is good!!

Sorry to hear the bad news, but it is better that it is like that now rather than 2 years into your ownership.

As far as the deposit, just serve a writ for debt if deposit was returnable. Does not cost much. An action for debt is usually simple and the broker will know that, so will probably cough up. Even a Solicitor's letter might do the trick.

Geoff

 

[Blue Knight]

Sorry to hear the bad news, but it is better that it is like that now rather than 2 years into your ownership.

As far as the deposit, just serve a writ for debt if deposit was returnable. Does not cost much. An action for debt is usually simple and the broker will know that, so will probably cough up. Even a Solicitor's letter might do the trick.

Geoff

Thanks Geoff,

We already have a solicitor lined up but it's just a shame that it has to come to this stage.

There just doesn't seem to be any honour or decency in this world anymore.

Thanks for the post-up.

Andrew

 

[Eggs]

Can I ask what the major faults the survey brought to light?

I don't want you to name the broker, but could you tell us which part of the country they are in?

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[Nomadian]

Sorry to hear your bad news. Don’t give up though, we love our life on the canal, you’ll find the right boat or the right boat will find you.
keep looking on rugby boats, he has some nice boats and as brokers go he has a very good reputation.
If you need any advice about boats pm me and I’ll do my best to help.

 

[Grianan]

You’ve been out through the mill Andrew ... broker’s attitude is totally unacceptable.
I do hope you get sorted quickly ... not sure what your Globecar option is just now but we’re glad to have ours even just for overnights or getting to our house up north. Think there’s a lovely loch front house for sale in Wester Alligin if that’s an option .., ?

 

[pelican]

One advantage of having a boat on tthe full Ships Register is that there is a legal record of ownership, so cannot be sold other than by the genuine owner.

Geoff

Is that the same as the part one register

 

[AnnB]

What a shame but thank goodness for the survey.

The first narrowboat my partner (at the time) and I bought turned out to be not quite so narrow and it got wedged in a lock. Luckily we we were able to claim some money back from the surveyor who had measured it wrongly.

 

[nicholsong]

Is that the same as the part one register

I believe that is the modern description. If it is expressed in 64ths of the total ownership then it is.

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[Trackman]

Good luck with your new boat. My oh & I are going the other way. We had a share in a NB for a few years, then bought our own 57ft. We've had that 14 years & still love it.
Now we've gone for owning a campervan too, & have ordered a PVC a few weeks ago. Can't wait to get our hands on it!

 

[nicholsong]

Good luck with your new boat. My oh & I are going the other way. We had a share in a NB for a few years, then bought our own 57ft. We've had that 14 years & still love it.
Now we've gone for owning a campervan too, & have ordered a PVC a few weeks ago. Can't wait to get our hands on it!

Do barges have bow cameras like MHs have rear-view cameras?

 

[TizzyOnTour]

Sorry to hear your bad news. Don’t give up though, we love our life on the canal, you’ll find the right boat or the right boat will find you.
keep looking on rugby boats, he has some nice boats and as brokers go he has a very good reputation.
If you need any advice about boats pm me and I’ll do my best to help.

Couldn’t agree more. We sold our prized and much loved boat through James at Rugby Boats 12 months ago. Very fair and honest with us and the buyers. On his suggestion, we even went down and met the buyers and spent an afternoon going through a thorough handover. The way business should and can be done. Willing buyer introduced to willing seller through honest broker.

 

[nicholsong]

In the yacht broking business there were several old hands like that and it was easy to spot them, then the likes of estate agents companies turned their attention to the market and that sector went the way of a lot of MH dealers these days. Sad.

The old school were actually sailors and not just salesmen who had been selling anything, e.g. cars, the week before. One of them spent hours with me in his living room 30 years ago going over the pros and conns of various designs. I did not buy through him as I bought privately, but as some recompense for his time I did my insurance through him for most of the 30 years so he got some payback. I am still in touch with him.

Geoff

 

[Kiwi Brit]

We lived over eight years on our 59' narrowboat, and loved every minute. We cruised for eight months of the year, and during the winter moored in Trinity Marina, Hinckley. We both feel very fortunate to have been able to do that. We returned to NZ with our motorhome and enjoying that but still hanker for the narrowboat.

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