Motorhome weights and payload - empty seats

[hja]

Just been reading a post on Motorhome Happiness forum where someone says that DVSA have said that for each empty seat in your van you must add 75kg to the payload plus 10kg for possessions. Apparently the law changed last year. Responses have obviously said when you are weighed it is what you have now not what you might have. The author of the post says they were told this by both the DVSA and the company that uprated their van.
If this is so, then many of us that are careful to stay under our permitted 3500Kg are stuffed.

 

[scotzsue]

Are we one of the the few couples who actually weigh their van, not every time, but when changes are made like adding the easilifter.
We use the 4 belted seats a few times a year so wouldnt be dismantling the seatbelts, so far we have had at least 50kg,to spare fully loaded, spare wheel motorbike and at least 15L water and full fuel tank.
We are we know fortunate that we are able to use the weighbridge at the docks.

 

[FrankNicklin]

We put our not fully laden 3500kg van on the local weighbridge a couple of weeks ago and it scaled 3700kg. Reducing the number of belted seats is not going to make it any more legal.

I did start a thread about it at the time, but as Brains has intimated above about his van, the same van as ours is sold in Germany plated at 3800kg.

At 3500kg, there should be 393kg of payload above PV, but clearly there is nothing like that. The German version at 693kg would be far more realistic.

If we want to travel fully laden and remain legal, we have no option but up up plate.

I dont understand how the same vehicle in a different country can be plated at 300Kg more than the UK. As far as I'm aware the same C1 categories exist and you need a license for c1. Why do they replate for the UK at the cost of payload making less attractive to buyers, can't see the logic.

 

[97243]

I dont understand how the same vehicle in a different country can be plated at 300Kg more than the UK. As far as I'm aware the same C1 categories exist and you need a license for c1. Why do they replate for the UK at the cost of payload making less attractive to buyers, can't see the logic.

Maybe the payload is less attractive but there are a hell of a lot more potential purchasers with Cat B only who would be prepared to look past that.

 

[FrankNicklin]

Maybe the payload is less attractive but there are a hell of a lot more potential purchasers with Cat B only who would be prepared to look past that.

Yes but at that plated weight and allowable payload its next to useless as a MH.

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[Brains]

We put our not fully laden 3500kg van on the local weighbridge a couple of weeks ago and it scaled 3700kg. Reducing the number of belted seats is not going to make it any more legal.

I did start a thread about it at the time, but as Brains has intimated above about his van, the same van as ours is sold in Germany plated at 3800kg.

At 3500kg, there should be 393kg of payload above PV, but clearly there is nothing like that. The German version at 693kg would be far more realistic.

If we want to travel fully laden and remain legal, we have no option but up up plate.

Just make sure you have the licence (and insurance) to drive a vehicle over 3500 KG !!!!

I'd also be looking at the dealer who sold it to you.
If the van is much over 3,000kg empty then with a full fuel tank and 11kg of gas and 20 litres of water and then four people on board plus their gear would mean that frankly it's not fit for purpose.

 

[Brains]

Yes but at that plated weight and allowable payload its next to useless as a MH.

One needs to check plated weights.
Just been talking to a tow bar fitter.

Ford Transit based motorhome with an Auto gear box came in to get a tow bar fitted for his Toad.

Ford plate (removed) would say can only tow upto 700kg.
Motorhome manufacture's plate says can tow 2.5t.

(Ford Transit manual gear box can tow to 2.5t, auto gearbox max 700kg)

Tow bar fitter has refused to take the job on!
(And as the van is still under warranty suggested they take it back to the dealer, as obviously mis-sold!)

 

[Brains]

I dont understand how the same vehicle in a different country can be plated at 300Kg more than the UK. As far as I'm aware the same C1 categories exist and you need a license for c1. Why do they replate for the UK at the cost of payload making less attractive to buyers, can't see the logic.

Horses for courses.

In the UK the typical motorhome buyer is probably the wrong side of 55.
Which means they passed their test before 1997.
Therefore selling the van with a realistic weight of close to 4 tonnes is not a problem.

I think Germany also has similar rules, although not 'Grandfather rights', so the Germans can, I believe, fairly easily, upgrade their driving licences. But it does substantially change the insurance to a 'commercial' level.

Most of the rest of Europe however you need to do a test before you can drive over 3.5t, which means a lot of motorhomes must be sold with close to zero genuine payload.

Last summer in Slovenia we parked up next to two identical motorhomes to ours.
German one was 3.5t
Our UK one at 3.8t
Other UK one at 4.1t

Both UK vans knew the weight of our vans.
Both are well over 3.5t loaded (neither had anything particularly heavy like motorbikes or sports kits).

Our German neighbour was appalled!

 

[tonyidle]

I've weighed mine a couple of times, always full of fuel and water and gear +OH, to obtain worst case scenario weight. I have four(?) travel seats but would only be able to add 1.3 passengers in exchange for the water. It would be nice to remove the passenger seatbelt framing as that must weigh a fair bit and it's just taking up space.

Why not do so? I've got shot of the frames used to convert two side benches to forward facing singles. The belts are still there but obviously unusable.

 

[cyberyacht]

Structural integrity(fixed to a major bulkhead) and accessibility. I'd probably have to dismantle half the interior.

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[FrankNicklin]

Horses for courses.

In the UK the typical motorhome buyer is probably the wrong side of 55.
Which means they passed their test before 1997.
Therefore selling the van with a realistic weight of close to 4 tonnes is not a problem.

I think Germany also has similar rules, although not 'Grandfather rights', so the Germans can, I believe, fairly easily, upgrade their driving licences. But it does substantially change the insurance to a 'commercial' level.

Most of the rest of Europe however you need to do a test before you can drive over 3.5t, which means a lot of motorhomes must be sold with close to zero genuine payload.

Last summer in Slovenia we parked up next to two identical motorhomes to ours.
German one was 3.5t
Our UK one at 3.8t
Other UK one at 4.1t

Both UK vans knew the weight of our vans.
Both are well over 3.5t loaded (neither had anything particularly heavy like motorbikes or sports kits).

Our German neighbour was appalled!

Germany also has Grandfathering Rights regarding C1. Not sure of the cut off date though.

 

[97243]

Just make sure you have the licence (and insurance) to drive a vehicle over 3500 KG !!!!

I'd also be looking at the dealer who sold it to you.
If the van is much over 3,000kg empty then with a full fuel tank and 11kg of gas and 20 litres of water and then four people on board plus their gear would mean that frankly it's not fit for purpose.

Yes, this is exactly the point I am making. I have a C1 licence, so up plating is not a problem, but I would guess that nearly every 3500kg A Class with an awning, sat dish, solar panel is going to be illegal if loaded normally for a trip.

I have spoken to our insurance broker this afternoon and he just needs to know about any modifications needed to go up to 3800 or whatever.

Having also spoken to Rapido, they have advised us to put this back through the dealer who have an arrangement with Rapido to see to the up plating in these circumstances. Clearly something not advertised when selling motorhomes, but still very aware of the problem.

Assuming no modifications, the paper exercise is going to cost about 300€ and then about an additional 30 - 40€ on the annual insurance premium.

 

[Gav61]

Hi......sorry to join late.....newcomer to forum.....great advice and lots good stuff...thanks.
I've a vw crafter custom fit.....weighed in at 3.6 t...once all kitted.
I've up plated to 4.1t as a paper exercise and cost!!
I'm old so can drive up to 7.5t so no issues so far.
I guess the big problem comes if an accident occurs...? If you're overweight then how will the law look at this and then will your insurance company wash their hands???
Also, recent confusion....I'm technically overweight for the tolls in EU.....so have to admit it and pay HGV toll charge and legally shouldn't use my emovis tag.

Mind blowing!!

 

[68c]

Don't forget if over 3050Kg empty. (yes- three thousand and fifty) You are subject to the same speed limits as the over 3500kg vans.

 

[Folkranger]

Utter rubbish.
Do you add 225kg if there's only the driver in a car

Just if your wife weighs 225kg Oops!

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[Lenny HB]

Don't forget if over 3050Kg empty. (yes- three thousand and fifty) You are subject to the same speed limits as the over 3500kg vans.

You are confused, you can have a 5000kg van if the unladen weight is 3050kg or less car limits apply.

 

[Lenny HB]

How many of us have actually weighed their MH at any point during ownership, not many I would guess

Last two vans I weighed 3 or 4 times a year, current van only weighed a couple of times and had 300 kg spare also since having air suspension fitted I can weigh it myself at the press of a button.

 

[68c]

You are confused, you can have a 5000kg van if the unladen weight is 3050kg or less car limits apply.

Yes, I agree. I was trying to make the point that just because a van is plated at 3500kg it does not necessarily allow car speeds.