Motorhome swaying at higher speed

[GBM]

Hello,
I purchased a 2003 Burstner Elegance A-class in May this year, it's a lovely vehicle with low miles and great condition. I noticed in my long drive home there was a tendency to start swaying at about 60mph. It was a bit unnerving, I slowed down rapidly and it recovered, but I'm wondering what the cause may be. Any clues?
Could it be tyres (Pressures? They were set at 4.5 bar all round at dealership), power steering? The van was unloaded but then it's 3.2t anyway. It's a Fiat Ducato 2.8 on an Alco chassis, no air suspension. The rear tyres are new, Michelin Triangle TR652 which I think could be a bit cheap, and Michelin Agilis Camping on front, fairly new. I could almost prevent it swaying if I was very delicate with the steering, is it just a question of acclimatising? I never experienced anything like this on my previous new coachbuilt Hymer. Any thoughts welcome.

 

[Itsmcb]

It's an Al-Ko chassis so more like £2½k.

Yep

 

[tinkertaylor]

If its bouncing then it's shock absorbers that have gone, mot checker will normally bounce a car down and make sure it settles down once it's has risen, problem with a van is the weight it would take to push the van down, hence the shot absorbers going untested.

Air suspension will not stop this happening and would probably make it worse. If your running your tyres at high pressure make sure you test your wheel nuts are tight after every trip, they have a tendancy to loosen with high tyre pressures, hence commercial vehicles having indicators fitted to the nuts.

 

[Barchetta47]

Hi,

I’ve got a 2004 Burstner i681 Elegance A Class which I run on 60psi front and 65psi rear and find that to be a good compromise. I haven’t added any air suspension to the rear and although it’s not at its best on roundabouts I don’t have the swaying you mention at 60-70mph. Sorry can’t help.

 

[MartynSuz]

Another’s for airbags on the rear.

Sway for me is usually a result of poor weight distribution, ie too much at the rear. Anyone who’s towed trailers will know what I mean.

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[Shrimp]

It's what the manual says.....!

The manual for the vehicle doesn’t take into consideration what tyres someone has fitted!
Most vehicles will ’tram-line’ as their wheelbase is slightly different to heavy duty vehicles that have caused the depressions in the road surface.

 

[bladerunner]

Completely agree. We run close to max weight and going round the corner, the back wobbled like a three ton trifle on a trampoline.

Got VB semi air, with separate L and R, compressor and gauges, and it is solid on the road, corners and straights. I stick about 2.5 bar in and I don't get airbumped by overtaking lorries or if I am overtaking them. Going over the crappier concrete parts of the southern parts of the M25, doesn't cause the bump stops to sound like a day at Larkhill artillery ranges.

And, on site, careful use of them means that the ramps stay in the garage.

And it gives me two more switches to fiddle with

Like Andy, I will never have another van without semi air or air.

Same here - best addition to my sprinter based A class

 

[DDJC]

If its bouncing then it's shock absorbers that have gone, mot checker will normally bounce a car down and make sure it settles down once it's has risen, problem with a van is the weight it would take to push the van down, hence the shot absorbers going untested.

I can't unload the van for an MOT. I've nowhere to put all the garbage I routinely lug around. I'd have to buy another motorhome to out it all in.
Which would then need an MOT, etc

 

[GBM]

Hi,

I’ve got a 2004 Burstner i681 Elegance A Class which I run on 60psi front and 65psi rear and find that to be a good compromise. I haven’t added any air suspension to the rear and although it’s not at its best on roundabouts I don’t have the swaying you mention at 60-70mph. Sorry can’t help.

Hi,
No that's helpful, good to know someone with the same van. I'll try those pressures and see how it goes. Have you had to replace dampers etc, or is there any history of that being done? I'm trying to get a feel for age and what might be round the corner. It's a lovely van inside - so spacious. You pleased with yours?

 

[Ingwe]

Another cause of swaying is "tram lining"...... Stuck in the shallow depressions in the tarmac caused by thousands of truck tyres.
They will have a wider track so you are skipping from one to the other repeatedly.

We found this so badly on part of the M11 we stopped at an emergency point to check whether we’d had a puncture! Most unsettling. Dropped the speed down to less than 50m.p.h. before it felt safe.

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[GBM]

The manual for the vehicle doesn’t take into consideration what tyres someone has fitted!
Most vehicles will ’tram-line’ as their wheelbase is slightly different to heavy duty vehicles that have caused the depressions in the road surface.

I was referring to pressures
My previous Hymer was never affected by lorry ruts, it was probably narrower track so maybe that was a factor. Trial and error I think.

 

[GBM]

Some very savvy and knowledgeable funsters on here and I have learnt a lot from them, however, did you buy from a dealer? and if so before experimenting I would check to see what warranty you have.
It's well known that many an experimenter has breached the warranty condition because of some very minor adjustment, just a thought.
Good luck and I hope you sort it out soon.
Happy MHoming from another at Dorset

Cheers!
From a dealer yes. I'm going to try small variations in tyre pressure (hardly a warranty breaker) first but I'll email the dealer with details of what I've experienced so far. It's got an extended warranty but the dealer has a legal responsibility in first 3 months anyway. I'm leaning towards it being an issue with rear dampers if the tyres aren't the problem, which is wear and tear but that's fine. I'm mainly concerned with sorting it.

 

[autorouter]

As tinkertaylor says. Suspension has two parts, the spring and the damper. The spring will bounce up and down several times without the damper. A damper is a piston in a cylinder full of oil or gas, with a small hole in the piston. When there is a force on the piston, it moves through the fluid, which is forced through the hole in the piston, causing a drag force. This drag force damps out the bouncing of the spring. A damper is also called a shock absorber, but that's a misleading name.

If a car has defective dampers, pushing down on one corner and releasing it means the car bounces up and down a few times before settling. With working dampers, the car will not bounce but settle immediately. As tinkertaylor says, it's difficult to do that test on a big motorhome, so they often are untested.

 

[Barclaybasher]

A way to test for tramlining is to move over a lane not used so much by HGVs - when the road is clear of course

 

[Barchetta47]

Hi,
No that's helpful, good to know someone with the same van. I'll try those pressures and see how it goes. Have you had to replace dampers etc, or is there any history of that being done? I'm trying to get a feel for age and what might be round the corner. It's a lovely van inside - so spacious. You pleased with yours?

Yes very pleased with ours which we have had for just over 5 years. We haven’t had any suspension work done and none was done before we owned it. It had done 50k when we bought it and it’s now on 105k. Great van and as you say very spacious. Not sure what we would replace it with to be honest.

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[headlight]

Although I have a different motorhome I found that altering the tyre pressures and how the weight was distributed transformed the ride and handling.

 

[offagen]

Cheers!
......... I'm leaning towards it being an issue with rear dampers if the tyres aren't the problem, which is wear and tear but that's fine. I'm mainly concerned with sorting it.

I believe it may not be regarded as wear and tear if it was a pre-existing fault that the dealer did not declare. It's worth checking your rights before approaching the dealer for repairs/replacements.

 

[GBM]

Yes very pleased with ours which we have had for just over 5 years. We haven’t had any suspension work done and none was done before we owned it. It had done 50k when we bought it and it’s now on 105k. Great van and as you say very spacious. Not sure what we would replace it with to be honest.

I believe it may not be regarded as wear and tear if it was a pre-existing fault that the dealer did not declare. It's worth checking your rights before approaching the

As tinkertaylor says. Suspension has two parts, the spring and the damper. The spring will bounce up and down several times without the damper. A damper is a piston in a cylinder full of oil or gas, with a small hole in the piston. When there is a force on the piston, it moves through the fluid, which is forced through the hole in the piston, causing a drag force. This drag force damps out the bouncing of the spring. A damper is also called a shock absorber, but that's a misleading name.

If a car has defective dampers, pushing down on one corner and releasing it means the car bounces up and down a few times before settling. With working dampers, the car will not bounce but settle immediately. As tinkertaylor says, it's difficult to do that test on a big motorhome, so they often are untested.

Cheers buddie, though I kinda know how suspension works!

 

[GBM]

I believe it may not be regarded as wear and tear if it was a pre-existing fault that the dealer did not declare. It's worth checking your rights before approaching the dealer for repairs/replacements.

I've just checked them, they're not leaking at all, they look to be original fit to me (Al-ko). I have an extensive history file but no receipts for any previous work done. The dealer isn't local so any involvement has to be weighed up against my time and effort v just getting it done near home. But I'll check anyway. Cheers

 

[Emmit]

I believe it may not be regarded as wear and tear if it was a pre-existing fault that the dealer did not declare. It's worth checking your rights before approaching the dealer for repairs/replacements.

I'm with offagen on this.
It's hardly wear and tear in the first three months.
And as someone else said previously, the shockers, unless leaking will get through an MOT purely because a motorhome can hardly be bumped to see the effect.

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[GBM]

I'm with offagen on this.
It's hardly wear and tear in the first three months.
And as someone else said previously, the shockers, unless leaking will get through an MOT purely because a motorhome can hardly be bumped to see the i months, it's a 20 year old vehicle.

I'm with offagen on this.
It's hardly wear and tear in the first three months.
And as someone else said previously, the shockers, unless leaking will get through an MOT purely because a motorhome can hardly be bumped to see the effect.

I've had it 2 months, but it's a 20 year old van, just to be clear. If they were faulty then an MOT failure, then yes, dealer should replace, as it had an MOT prior to sale. But they're not leaking, they're just old, and they may not even be the problem. I'll use it a bit more and check with different tyre pressures, then hopefully draw more conclusions. But I'll contact dealer now so if there is an issue that they should have covered, I'll have got in in time.

 

[stevewagner]

I know you say you won’t fit air, but for £250 to £500 I wouldn’t want a van without it. Transformed the drive of my van, which is a similar age to yours. I adjust mine all the time, and feel the benefits.

Rear air on an Alko chassis is a minimum of 2K

 

[GBM]

Yes very pleased with ours which we have had for just over 5 years. We haven’t had any suspension work done and none was done before we owned it. It had done 50k when we bought it and it’s now on 105k. Great van and as you say very spacious. Not sure what we would replace it with to be honest.

Great to hear you're using it! My only disappointment is it's noisier than I unexpected, though I've now had time to go through it and exorcise the worst culprits, which has helped.

 

[Pekepal]

We’ve just got back from a trip to Norfolk and experienced the same problem on parts of the roads up towards Norwich. Our van has new tyres and has just had a full check of the steering by a Fiat professional garage. We had no problems for the earlier part of the journey and put it down to the worn ruts in the road surface, plus we were travelling light on the front. for the return journey we made sure of carrying more weight on the front. We experienced slight wobble again whilst in Norfolk but the rest of the journey was fine apart from the odd wobble when in ruts on M25. need to get some of these heavy lorries off our roads. They run up and down the M20 like train carriages all linked together.

 

[GBM]

We’ve just got back from a trip to Norfolk and experienced the same problem on parts of the roads up towards Norwich. Our van has new tyres and has just had a full check of the steering by a Fiat professional garage. We had no problems for the earlier part of the journey and put it down to the worn ruts in the road surface, plus we were travelling light on the front. for the return journey we made sure of carrying more weight on the front. We experienced slight wobble again whilst in Norfolk but the rest of the journey was fine apart from the odd wobble when in ruts on M25. need to get some of these heavy lorries off our roads. They run up and down the M20 like train carriages all linked together.

Thanks for sharing, that's interesting. I'm beginning to think my experiences coming back from dealership in Devon were two different things. Firstly, steering seems light at speed and perhaps I over compensated and set up a weave (it was a fast dual carriageway section with a left hand bend and steep decline, I thought I'd lost it at one point!), and subsequently perhaps I was merely hitting ruts along some straight sections and interpreted it as a weave, when in fact it wasn't. I need to go on another longer trip, frankly, as all I've done recently is local stuff. But thanks.

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[Pekepal]

Thanks for sharing, that's interesting. I'm beginning to think my experiences coming back from dealership in Devon were two different things. Firstly, steering seems light at speed and perhaps I over compensated and set up a weave (it was a fast dual carriageway section with a left hand bend and steep decline, I thought I'd lost it at one point!), and subsequently perhaps I was merely hitting ruts along some straight sections and interpreted it as a weave, when in fact it wasn't. I need to go on another longer trip, frankly, as all I've done recently is local stuff. But thanks.

It is a really frightening experience and does make you wonder what is happening. after many long journeys this was almost a first for us but did realise that as this was a relatively short few days away we hadn’t loaded up with fuel so we’re light on the front. We normally tootle along at between 50 and 60 mph. Don’t try the roads in Belgium as they will give you heart failure with the ruts

 

[John Mee]

Another vote for air on the rear (£300 -500) stabilises the van.

Tyre pressures - I run at 86psi as recommended by someone who's been fitting tyres all his life.

Air suspension for an Alko Chassis is 3 tmes that - as far as I can see.