Motorhome Payload Stop Checks

[Crazy Grandad]

Have any of you funsters ever been stopped in the UK and had your weight checked. Just been on weighbridge and wondered if there is any leeway with regard to carrying extra food and fuel on a 3500 van weight

 

[bigtwin]

I do think the police get the raw end of the stick

As do those they fit up!

But whats wrong with fitting someone up

Ian

 

[PeterCarole29]

As do those they fit up!





Ian

You are right of course

 

[PeterCarole29]

As do those they fit up!





Ian

Slightly different from being fitted up but several years ago while out on the water as coxaine on a life boat
The police were also out on the water in the comercial shipping area on a jetski.We were not aware that they were employed by the council to do a perge on speeding on the water at the time and surprise surprise the only people procercuted were those that admitted to it when stopped. The lesson there is dont admit to anything

 

[Northernraider]

now its been mentioned i recallect one occation .
Its not a job i could do dealing with scotes and the like. I do think the police get the raw end of the stick

Thats the ocation i remeber
But whats wrong with fitting someone up its what i would do if in the force theres too many ways scotes get away with things

Thankfully you don't do the job then.

A bent copper is a criminal.

They're paid to uphold the law they're not above it. And cops that behave like that are exact why people have zero respect for them. I'd jail every bent cop on the force.

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[PeterCarole29]

Thankfully you don't do the job then.

A bent copper is a criminal.

They're paid to uphold the law they're not above it. And cops that behave like that are exact why people have zero respect for them. I'd jail every bent cop on the force.

I agree with you

 

[TerryReis]

I have just waded through this lengthy and sometimes randomly off topic post. The one thing that strikes me is no one has posted "Yep I Got Done".

 

[Briboy]

I'd read the rest of the thread as a lot of this was considered nonsense

I did read through the thread and there was opinions expressed that differed from what K9Motorhomers stated. However, crucially, these opinions were expressed without factual substantiation.

Until two days ago, I hadn't read this thread. I now have due to a conversation that I had with a DVLA approved technical specialist, concerning motorhome weights. He stated that at a motorhome stop check, a DVSA Officer would add additional weight of 75kg for each unoccupied travelling seat and add weight to bring the fuel tank to full.

That is remarkably similar to what K9Motorhomers stated in his post. Now many may find that incredulous, but I would like to find out on what basis the DVSA and the Police could take that action. Is it based on case law, legislation, policy or what?

I think we should have a discussion where supported statements and opinions, can be expressed so we can better understand what we may have to face.

Now here is something to think about:

Motorhome max weight 3500kg
Front axle max weight 1850 kg
Rear axle max weight 2250kg
5 travelling seats
2 passengers

Weighbridge weights:
3480kg
1440kg
2040kg
Half a tank of fuel

Is the motorhome overweight or not and if so, is it subject to sanction.

 

[Northernraider]

I did read through the thread and there was opinions expressed that differed from what K9Motorhomers stated. However, crucially, these opinions were expressed without factual substantiation.

Until two days ago, I hadn't read this thread. I now have due to a conversation that I had with a DVLA approved technical specialist, concerning motorhome weights. He stated that at a motorhome stop check, a DVSA Officer would add additional weight of 75kg for each unoccupied travelling seat and add weight to bring the fuel tank to full.

That is remarkably similar to what K9Motorhomers stated in his post. Now many may find that incredulous, but I would like to find out on what basis the DVSA and the Police could take that action. Is it based on case law, legislation, policy or what?

I think we should have a discussion where supported statements and opinions, can be expressed so we can better understand what we may have to face.

Now here is something to think about:

Motorhome max weight 3500kg
Front axle max weight 1850 kg
Rear axle max weight 2250kg
5 travelling seats
2 passengers

Weighbridge weights:
3480kg
1440kg
2040kg
Half a tank of fuel

Is the motorhome overweight or not and if so, is it subject to sanction.

It isn't overweight.

Having reported suspicious behaviour to the police before and being told " a crime has to be committed for it to be a crime " I apply the same rules.

If its plated at 3500kg and when stopped and checked its under 3500kg I'm braking no law. And if they wish to.challenge that in court and lose so be it.

 

[The Artilleryman]

It does not matter who (police or DVSA) are weighing any vehicle, THEY CANNOT ARBITRALAY ADDD WEIGHT, what the scales show is the weight of said vehicle. END OF.

This rubbish being spouted by some on here, has no evidence or law to back up the comments and would be thrown out of court due to lack of evidence.

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[Stoosal]

I did read through the thread and there was opinions expressed that differed from what K9Motorhomers stated. However, crucially, these opinions were expressed without factual substantiation.

Until two days ago, I hadn't read this thread. I now have due to a conversation that I had with a DVLA approved technical specialist, concerning motorhome weights. He stated that at a motorhome stop check, a DVSA Officer would add additional weight of 75kg for each unoccupied travelling seat and add weight to bring the fuel tank to full.

That is remarkably similar to what K9Motorhomers stated in his post. Now many may find that incredulous, but I would like to find out on what basis the DVSA and the Police could take that action. Is it based on case law, legislation, policy or what?

I think we should have a discussion where supported statements and opinions, can be expressed so we can better understand what we may have to face.

Now here is something to think about:

Motorhome max weight 3500kg
Front axle max weight 1850 kg
Rear axle max weight 2250kg
5 travelling seats
2 passengers

Weighbridge weights:
3480kg
1440kg
2040kg
Half a tank of fuel

Is the motorhome overweight or not and if so, is it subject to sanction.

You’re right……if anybody can provide documentation that an enforcement officer can add an arbitrary weight to increase the actual weight of a vehicle being weighed for enforcement purposes in determining the weight of a vehicle for prosecution purposes I’ll listen. Until then…….its the actual weight(s) of the vehicle being weighed.
I would go back to the person you had the conversation with and ask them for a copy of that guidance or legislation to support their statement.

 

[Tony50]

It's not the weight it's the inconvenience of having to follow the Police to a weighbridge when you're going on holiday, or Rally, can't quite make out why this subject keeps coming up, it's as if "Hi pick me out and take me to a weighbridge I need the inconvenience".
"Happy days stress-free "

 

[Jim]

a DVSA Officer would add additional weight of 75kg for each unoccupied travelling seat and add weight to bring the fuel tank to full.

Whoever said that was confused. The 75kg per passenger seat is an EU regulation and must be taken into the payload calculation. No one who stops you will be adding weight or doing any calculations.

 

[Northernraider]

I mean honestly if this were the case where does it end .

So you've a maximum weight of 3500kg , plod stops you counts up your other half tank of diesel and the weight of 3 fictitious passengers and your 3490kg

Can he then say ah but you might go shopping , or eat a big lunch ...

It's ridiculous.

If you're stopped and weighed and the vehicle is under the max weight then you're not breaking the law.


Any other nonsense is entrapment, fabrication and illegal.

Any good lawyer would love it.



But just to be on the safe side if you think you've encountered a dodgy plod , record everything...you're perfectly entitled to do so.

 

[FEC]

A fascinating and at times worrying and exhausting thread. The issue here seems to be the elasticity of the interpretation of the law? So if I understand correctly, K9Motorhomers was suggesting that if someone was marginally overweight, then the DVSA and legal system could extrapolate liberally to an alarming degree -so adding weight for full fuel and water tank, and adding your imaginary family and friends or random hitch-hikers you might pick up down the road AFTER you have been weighed -then the police could call your insurer who would say you're not covered and then they could throw the proverbial at you.
But most of this seems to be in the gift of the police/DVSA and ultimately any court process.
As has been said above, all of this could in theory be done to any owner of a 5/6 Berth MH with 5 seatbelts who is a kilo over weight or even UNDER weight for that matter, if they chose to do so.

While there has been plenty of pushback over the apparently ludicrous scenario this suggests -my question would be this: -Has K9Motorhomers ever put this into practice professionally?
Or is he aware of any of his colleagues who have tried it on, or convictions, or attempted prosecutions, where this extrapolation was attempted -either successfully or unsuccessfully?

At the end of the day that seems to be the main thing as whatever anyone thinks about the law being an ass, it would be an arresting thought if we are all potentially overweight if authorities WISH to designate us as such?

Looking forward to K9Motorhomers re-entering the fray on substance of the earlier contributions here!

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[bigtwin]

A fascinating and at times worrying and exhausting thread. The issue here seems to be the elasticity of the interpretation of the law? So if I understand correctly, K9Motorhomers was suggesting that if someone was marginally overweight, then the DVSA and legal system could extrapolate liberally to an alarming degree -so adding weight for full fuel and water tank, and adding your imaginary family and friends or random hitch-hikers you might pick up down the road AFTER you have been weighed -then the police could call your insurer who would say you're not covered and then they could throw the proverbial at you.
But most of this seems to be in the gift of the police/DVSA and ultimately any court process.
As has been said above, all of this could in theory be done to any owner of a 5/6 Berth MH with 5 seatbelts who is a kilo over weight or even UNDER weight for that matter, if they chose to do so.

While there has been plenty of pushback over the apparently ludicrous scenario this suggests -my question would be this: -Has K9Motorhomers ever put this into practice professionally?
Or is he aware of any of his colleagues who have tried it on, or convictions, or attempted prosecutions, where this extrapolation was attempted -either successfully or unsuccessfully?

At the end of the day that seems to be the main thing as whatever anyone thinks about the law being an ass, it would be an arresting thought if we are all potentially overweight if authorities WISH to designate us as such?

Looking forward to K9Motorhomers re-entering the fray on substance of the earlier contributions here!

K9Motorhomers

 

[Carpmart]

A fascinating and at times worrying and exhausting thread. The issue here seems to be the elasticity of the interpretation of the law? So if I understand correctly, K9Motorhomers was suggesting that if someone was marginally overweight, then the DVSA and legal system could extrapolate liberally to an alarming degree -so adding weight for full fuel and water tank, and adding your imaginary family and friends or random hitch-hikers you might pick up down the road AFTER you have been weighed -then the police could call your insurer who would say you're not covered and then they could throw the proverbial at you.
But most of this seems to be in the gift of the police/DVSA and ultimately any court process.
As has been said above, all of this could in theory be done to any owner of a 5/6 Berth MH with 5 seatbelts who is a kilo over weight or even UNDER weight for that matter, if they chose to do so.

While there has been plenty of pushback over the apparently ludicrous scenario this suggests -my question would be this: -Has K9Motorhomers ever put this into practice professionally?
Or is he aware of any of his colleagues who have tried it on, or convictions, or attempted prosecutions, where this extrapolation was attempted -either successfully or unsuccessfully?

At the end of the day that seems to be the main thing as whatever anyone thinks about the law being an ass, it would be an arresting thought if we are all potentially overweight if authorities WISH to designate us as such?

Looking forward to K9Motorhomers re-entering the fray on substance of the earlier contributions here!

It’s a completely pointless conversation as it has and never will happen. It’s just meaningless noise from people who don’t understand the law and how it is applied.

So for clarity, weight is 100% binary. You either are or are not overweight at the point the weight measurement is taken.

Full stop!

 

[Northernraider]

I've found over several years IF you want to know the law . NEVER ask a policeman as 90% of them don't know it. They make things up and give a lot of misinformation in the hope you won't know any better. I follow several YouTube pages where it's almost laughable the lies they tell . And often end up in court defending their actions.

Sadly it will never make mainstream news.

 

[gus-lopez]

Until two days ago, I hadn't read this thread. I now have due to a conversation that I had with a DVLA approved technical specialist, concerning motorhome weights. He stated that at a motorhome stop check, a DVSA Officer would add additional weight of 75kg for each unoccupied travelling seat and add weight to bring the fuel tank to full.

They are dreaming. Should be sacked for not knowing the law.

but I would like to find out on what basis the DVSA and the Police could take that action.

They tried this years ago with vehicles towing on the way to Santa's Pod raceway.
All thrown out.
The favourite one used to be if you were towing an empty trailer that could carry 3500kgs with a vehicle that has A)a lower towing limit or B) can only tow 750kgs.
They'd spout what has already been stated by those who should be sacked. It is bo***cks & thrown our in court. Even the dvsa/ igor eilliams trailers provided a declaration that the only wrightvthat counted was when you weighed it on the roadside. I have posted this A4 sheet showing it before.

It's not the weight it's the inconvenience of having to follow the Police to a weighbridge when you're going on holiday, or Rally, can't quite make out why this subject keeps coming up, it's as if "Hi pick me out and take me to a weighbridge I need the inconvenience".
"Happy days stress-free "

If over a certain distance and you are under weight you can claim expenses. Doubt that you will be told that though.

Or is he aware of any of his colleagues who have tried it on, or convictions, or attempted prosecutions,

As above.
Weight when weighed is all that counts.

 

[FEC]

That's reassuring -not that the police don't know the law -but that examples of similar sharp practice have gone to court and been thrown out- wonder if any successful defendants then got prosecuted for wasting police time? All the same -I'll be extra charming if pulled over!

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[Northernraider]

That's reassuring -not that the police don't know the law -but that examples of similar sharp practice have gone to court and been thrown out- wonder if any successful defendants then got prosecuted for wasting police time? All the same -I'll be extra charming if pulled over!

In my opinion everytime the police take someone to court and the case is thrown out or dismissed the police should be fined for wasting both court and civilian time. They go far far beyond their reach nowadays and pick and choose what they want to deal with. Suffer a break in or assault and you'll wait hours for someone to attend.

But they will happily waste time mob handed to harass a member of the public because it suits them .

 

[stevewagner]

I've found over several years IF you want to know the law . NEVER ask a policeman as 90% of them don't know it. They make things up and give a lot of misinformation in the hope you won't know any better. I follow several YouTube pages where it's almost laughable the lies they tell . And often end up in court defending their actions.

Sadly it will never make mainstream news.

90%? Can you substantiate that or did you make it up?

 

[Northernraider]

90%? Can you substantiate that or did you make it up?

Did I touch a nerve?

 

[nicholsong]

If a policeman presumes to state 'what the law is', I often respond with 'I thought that Parliament and the Courts decide what is the law. That normally ends the conversation.

 

[busby]

I'm a youngster on here and have only been doing this for 12 years - and never been stopped.
In a previous life I was aware of 10% leeway by my local forces but that was a few years ago.

Terry

Spent 40 years truck driving..fiddled hours all the time and got away with it BUT pulled a few times for full vehicle inspection and weights..Its all down to luck. BUSBY.

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[busby]

By prohibition do they mean drive no further until unloaded to correct weight?

Yes.

 

[busby]

I'm not so sure. If you declared your weight to be 3500kg and and actually you were 3700kg at the time of an accident then you are in breach of your insurance agreement. Insurance companies will try very hard to wriggle out of a payout.

Got my van smashed up in Germany..drove home before reporting it...Insurance never mentioned weight but did write it off.BUSBY.

 

[busby]

Wow! Now that is heavy.

Gross truck weight in uk is 44 tonnes.

 

[busby]

Which is my point. Some are saying overloading your vehicle is dangerous when it is not because it is designed for it.

But it's illegal..BUSBY

 

[busby]

I'm very interested to understand how this "network of sensors on the motorways able to weigh vehicles" work?
What are they sensing?

Axle weights I believe.

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[Ingwe]

If a policeman presumes to state 'what the law is', I often respond with 'I thought that Parliament and the Courts decide what is the law. That normally ends the conversation.

That wouldn’t have ended the conversation with a South African policeman pre-1994!

The conversation would have ended but not in way that permitted the citizen to carry on with their business.