I've no problem paying nominal fees for over night parking, definitely think many councils are missing a trick here. Quite happily did it in Bourton On Water when we'd spent an entire day there and couldn't be arsed driving on elsewhere. Car park we were in had provision for overnight fee, think it was between £6-8 quid.
Motorhome owners lash out at Devon 'ban' proposal
- Thread starter ShiftZZ
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- Apr 12, 2010
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What worries me is some people won’t even pay a nominal fee. It happens in France a well, I’ve seen people break barriers rather than pay.
'Fraid not, it lists the banned activities seperately. Cooking, camping etc AND disturbances.The sign infers it is ok unless you are likely to cause a breach of the peace.
But it does state" likely to cause a breach of the peace"
How does sleeping , cause a breach of the peace?
Gellyneck
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You've obviously not heard my snoring!
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While I totally agree with you saying we should respect signs in car parks - people who don't are directly responsible for increased restrictions, hostility and height barriers - I object to the comment that the 'big worry' is that those of us in smaller vans 'just empty their waste and toilet wherever they want to'. My small campervan has an portapotti and I have never had any problem emptying it properly even though I do 80% of my camping not on sites. Most with VW or Transit sized vans or other PVCs are responsible campers. Ignorant and disgusting people emptying their toilet cassettes on beaches and into the sea etc are just as likely to be from motorhomes as from camper vans.
Similarly to you, I also have had to stop someone emptying their loo inappropropriately although they weren't about to just empty it straight onto the ground. In this instance, the motorhome owner/driver was poking about pulling up drain covers on private land (a museum's grassed car park) where a) the sewage is not on the mains system and b) disposing of waste on private land without permission is taking a big liberty.
Back to ignoring signs - this will become more and more of an issue not only regarding overnight parking/sleeping, but also with increased height barriers and restrictions, meaning that parking a motorhome or campervan even for a few hours during the day is going to become harder and thus our access to many lovely places will be limited, thanks to the consistently selfish actions of the 'me, me brigade'.
It is much dearer now and you also forgot to mention the daytime parking fees. For 24 hours, it is more than the campsite one mile out. That is not a "nominal" fee, that is the price to expect showers, toilets and other facilities like elsan point! There is nothing but a park up in a car park and the motorhome bays are not even level..
Most of these vans will belong to surfers, I spent several years in the late 70's early 80's surfing at Woolacombe and Croyde, I'd travel down their on a Friday night and leave Sunday afternoon every couple off weeks, summer and winter, surfers (and also hang glider pilots) have always over nighted on the esplanade most of us used the toilets in the red barn when we went for breakfast in the morning or in one of the pubs in the evenings, surfers can't carry their boards long distances they need to be close to the beach, I don't see why this has suddenly become a problem, perhaps it's an influx of townies that have started complaining to the council. The surfers have mostly always got on well with the locals, certainly we did, I remember well competing in the tug of war at the may day celebrations every year, I pulled for the life guards and we all ways lost to the farmers team but had a great time partying afterwards, happy days.
Gellyneck
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No! It says :-The sign infers it is ok unless you are likely to cause a breach of the peace.
“sleeping” prohibited.
“Cooking’ prohibited.
”Camping” prohibited.
”Personal ablutions” prohibited
and,
”Disturbances likely to cause a breach of the peace” prohibited....
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No it doesn't, you have added prohibited after each action,they are only prohibited if they are likely to cause a breach of the peace .
I don’t think you are correct it says sleeping,cooking,personal ablutions and disturbances likely to cause a breach of the peace?No it doesn't, you have added prohibited after each action,they are only prohibited if they are likely to cause a breach of the peace .
It’s a list of things which are prohibited. As with any list there is a comma after each item in the list and an ‘and’ between the next to last and last item in the list. ‘Disturbances likely to cause a breach of the peace is a single (and last) item in the list. Everything in the list is prohibited
- May 29, 2015
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Agree with you hblewett. Clear standard grammar.
It beggars belief the people who are so keen to interpret the rules in their own way, even if it means there will be more restrictions for others. That sign is clear. All the listed items are prohibited. The "and" should tell you that it is a list and one is not dependant on any other.
Sleeping, Cooking,
Camping, Personal
Ablutions AND
Disturbances likely
to cause a breach
of the peace
It is simple really!
Sleeping, Cooking,
Camping, Personal
Ablutions AND
Disturbances likely
to cause a breach
of the peace
It is simple really!
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Sleeping etc are banned in their own right, there is nothing in that wording that makes their being banned conditional on there being a potential for a breach of the peace. The potantial breach of the peace is after the 'and', also being banned in it's own right.
For what it's worth, the definition of a breach of the peace changed some years ago after a court case and rather than being well, pretty much anything beyond complete tranquility in the neighbourhood and a handy way of getting persistent idiots off the street, now has to contain an element of fear for the safety of people or property. So whilst you couldn't sleep or wash there, a well behaved all night party might be lawful, once the COVID rules are suspended, obviously.
Edit - sorry, came back to this from a notification. I see the point's been made a few times.
Lee337
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- None, absolutely none, although I did once own a VW T2 Westie which I used overnight a few times
Ok, I'll hold my hand up & say I often used to park along the esplanade in Woolacombe in my little 1973 VW Westie & depending on the tide times would stay overnight to catch the good waves in the morning. I've even parked up & slept in the car (usually after too much to drink of an evening).
Mind you, that was 30 years ago.
More recently when I've been back to visit relatives, I've rarely been able to park on the esplanade, even first thing in the morning due to overnighters & the smell on warm days is not something you want to go with your picnic.
Quite honestly I can see both sides of the argument, it is a great view to wake up to and if you're a surfer, its an ideal spot. sadly a lot of the vans are not surfers, they're hire vans who quite honestly have little regard for others who might want to enjoy the area. A designated area further along the esplanade & perhaps opening up part of the carpark along Marine Drive for overnight use, might go some way to pleasing both locals and MH users. That is as long as there are facilities to deal with waste.
Odd how Croyde, which has better waves but a much smaller beach rarely has these problems.
Mind you, that was 30 years ago.
More recently when I've been back to visit relatives, I've rarely been able to park on the esplanade, even first thing in the morning due to overnighters & the smell on warm days is not something you want to go with your picnic.
Quite honestly I can see both sides of the argument, it is a great view to wake up to and if you're a surfer, its an ideal spot. sadly a lot of the vans are not surfers, they're hire vans who quite honestly have little regard for others who might want to enjoy the area. A designated area further along the esplanade & perhaps opening up part of the carpark along Marine Drive for overnight use, might go some way to pleasing both locals and MH users. That is as long as there are facilities to deal with waste.
Odd how Croyde, which has better waves but a much smaller beach rarely has these problems.
I think the reason that Croyde doesn't have such an issue is that the streets are narrower, so less places to park and you have one campsite with direct access to the beach and another with a shortish walk across the road to the beach. I prefer Croyde myself but we used to wander between the two quite often.
I haven't been there for many years now but I'm sad to hear that it can smell in the summer that's terrible, people can be so thoughtless sometimes.
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Last summer when the kids were off school and we allowed to move about, we used to get down to Exmouth before 8am to walk the dogs on the beach before it got busy and we used to see a lot of motorhomes parked up on Queen's drive where motorhome parking overnight (but not during the day) is banned. Now call me cynical and yes, maybe some of them had done the same as us and driven down early to miss the crowds but looking at them, I'm pretty certain that quite a few had been there overnight. There is a car park that allows overnight parking about 1/2 mile away but it's a) not level, b) doesn't have a sea view and c) closed with a barrier ridiculously early - between 4 and 7 pm depending on time of year. This is why residents get annoyed and the councils ban motorhome parking. On a brighter note - if you want to park overnight for a very reasonable charge (I think it was £5 when we stayed) Riverside car park in Bideford has the estuary on one side and a park on the other. It's a big car park so you can find a quiet spot. Other's have raved about Appledore - we tried it and moved on to Bideford about 8:30pm because it was so busy and noisy
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I couldn’t have said it better myself!
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That’s because I was spelling it out. It’s a list of 5 items that are prohibited.No it doesn't, you have added prohibited after each action,they are only prohibited if they are likely to cause a breach of the peace .
The police have for years turned a blind eye to the surfer dudes in their home made vans because they didnt usually stop for long in one place and we were all young once. The problem is non surfers have twigged the situation and thought why am I paying £25/night and havent got a view like this and have to cycle in from miles away so they ve steadily added to the ranks with bigger vehicles and are staying for longer because they know they re not going to get another spot like this easily. staying longer leads to waste issues etc.
I think Devon are one of the few councils actually doing something about it by allowing overnights in more car parks in better areas for mh'ers the problem is there arent enough to cope with the boom in MH ownership. This is not actually their fault but its really not hard to deal with, many of the aires we stay on are basically gravel carparks and still charge so if more councils can get there acts together and use some of the redundant land that almost certainly exists the problem will go away and could actually become self financing. I would tackle the borne issue like NZ with public dump stations.
I think Devon are one of the few councils actually doing something about it by allowing overnights in more car parks in better areas for mh'ers the problem is there arent enough to cope with the boom in MH ownership. This is not actually their fault but its really not hard to deal with, many of the aires we stay on are basically gravel carparks and still charge so if more councils can get there acts together and use some of the redundant land that almost certainly exists the problem will go away and could actually become self financing. I would tackle the borne issue like NZ with public dump stations.
Coolcats
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The article is a typical poor reporting the video shows that all the vans MoHo’s and cars are actually parked legally with a few bays available. Unless there is an overnight ban in place no one looks like anything illegal is going on. It does however prevent day trippers from just turning up and parking for the morning or afternoon but isn’t that the same for most seaside towns ?
Motorhome owners lash out at Devon 'ban' proposal
“Staycation is not going to go away"www.devonlive.com
Interesting video, wall to wall FLT
Coolcats
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Parking tickets soon sort that out for the majority who think paying doesn’t apply to them.
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Exactly because thats all it is - a variation on parking yet whenever you talk to a councillor they seem to be fixated on toilet facilities.
Coolcats
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Then the council need to provide suitable public conveniences that they have tended to close over the years and often sell off so flats ans apartments can be built !
This is what the Kiwis have instead of our awful Caravan Club, NZMCA is set up to do stuff for its members
www.nzmca.org.nz
Dump Stations
www.nzmca.org.nz
If I was being a bit roguish I would take that as ‘ Motorhomers like shoplifting, getting p@ssed, don’t was very often and are mostly constipate, oh and can’t be bothered to walk.I think she says we want to be near pubs, restaurants, cafes and shops etc
but don’t need campsite facilities like shower blocks and on site entertainment,bars etc.
must admit it is not very well put together
but at least trying to make the point
Campervan_man
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A few more sharks in the water would probably ease the parking congestion ?
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