MOTORHOME owners have returned to a Lincolnshire car park which had its height restri

[PP Bear]

If you build it, they will come

 

[Abacist]

If only Councils in the rest of the UK could realise that their only role in life is to serve the people who vote for them

Allan

I can't think that Motorhomers would have any sort of influential voice when it comes to voting for councillors and frankly I can't see why we should be so privileged as to have any special concessions over caravanners or tenters. I am grateful for anything provided and disappointed if there is active discrimination against us through height barriers but that is all it can be. We can only point to the enlightened continent and hope for better.

On our side if it is the actions of a few branding us all with a poor reputation then we need to castigate the offenders at every opportunity.

I have just had four weeks in Europe, mostly Germany although we also visited Belgium, France, Luxembourg and Switzerland and Europe seems to be a much better place than home in terms of the politeness, cleanliness, helpfulness and goodwill towards fellow citizens than here at home. There were no drunken, foul mouthed youths threatening anyone and I didn't see anyone dropping any litter or suchlike. Road manners and discipline were excellent and generally behaviour was beyond reproach especially considering the Word Cup was on. Apart from family ties and the fact that I can only speak French or English I'd be gone!

 

[Wildman]

Charging £x for 2 nights, what's that all about, if the council charge to raise income what's the point in restricting the number of nights, that just reduces income so seems a self defeating argument.

 

[johnp10]

Why? what is the difference between motorhomes caravans tents and tailor tents. Shouldn't they all be welcome. They all need somewhere to stay.:thumb:

As has already been said by Freelander, there is plenty of parking available on the east coast, in the form of sites, Cls and Cs's.

If I want to visit the seaside and park my car during the day I should be able to, without being unable to do so because of the smell of grey waste dumped directly onto the park and without being unable to go onto the beach / dunes area because toilet waste is emptied there by freeloaders.

This isn't about freedom or so called wild camping, (nothing wild about Huttoft, the term is used mainly to indicate freeloader camping) it's about the people who pay the taxes for that area (Me amongst others) being able to see the car park (note the term....CAR PARK) used for its purpose, which is to provide parking for people who visit the area and spend money there.
Please don't tell me those taking the piss and parking for free spend money, that defeats the whole point of freeloading.

Wild camping and freeloading....two different concepts.

Charging and enforcing is bullshit.
It in turn has costs to the ratepayer.......Me.
If we must advocate a charge, make it £50 per night.
That way the rate payer doesn't have to pay for shit to be cleaned up, the "freedom seekers" can.

 

[Puddleduck]

There is no excuse for dumping any type of waste. Anyone found doing so should be heavily fined.

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[TheBig1]

If I caught somebody dumping shit on a car park or in the dunes, I would make them pick it all up even if that meant they had to lick it all up. Bet they wouldn't do it again!

 

[Abacist]

Charging £x for 2 nights, what's that all about, if the council charge to raise income what's the point in restricting the number of nights, that just reduces income so seems a self defeating argument.

To give everyone a chance and to stop a few who would no doubt hog it otherwise. They do this abroad so why not?

 

[voyagerstan]

getting a bit heated . dont see any problem parking on a "car park" but there are allways the few who missbehave a bit like car drivers slinging fast food crap out the window and any other rubish they leave behind. as for costs we all pay our way somewhere dont we . STAN

 

[tonyidle]

I can't see the difference between long-stay motorhomers and travellers - other than I'd like to think that the former don't leave rubbish behind. To anyone not involved with motorhome or caravan use I'm certain there's no detectable difference. So why would we expect special treatment? Nowhere other than a dedicated site / CL /CS can offer the facilities essential to servicing a motorhome in any clean and sensible manner. I have wild camped and have used Aires - for one night at a time. I've always assumed that the purpose of Aires was to allow over-nighting as part of a journey and not as a holiday venue. I occasionally wild camp for the same reason - simply as an overnight stop during a journey. If a local authority chose to provide an overnight facility in a convenient-to-the-shops parking area I would again assume it was for a single overnight stop and I would expect to pay for it.

It is impossible to over-estimate the problems caused by travellers / gypsies. I live in an area plagued by them during the Appleby Horse Fair. As a group motorhome users need to distance their behaviour as far as possible from that of the 'travelling' community to avoid being identified as part of it by the rest of the population.

 

[Bertie Bassett]

I live and pay council tax in Powys. Most town car parks here have a sign welcoming motorhomers to stay overnight for one night in seven. In Brecon there are two such car parks. This is as a result of one council official seeing the benefits of the 'aires' system in France whilst on an exchange visit. So far the system has worked and there has been no abuse and local businesses fully support the initiative. If my council can do it so can others. I sometimes get the impression that there are individuals within councils who are on constant look out for something to legislate about. That said criminal damage of any sort will set the advances we motorhomers have made in recent times back twenty five years!

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[GJH]

It is absolutely correct that if Powys can offer facilities then other councils can as well. However, what is not often appreciated is that many councils have never heard of the aires system nor or facilities offered by some UK councils. They only learn of them when somebody takes the trouble to tell them. It is also no good just making councils aware of other facilities and expecting them to use limited resources to set up projects without some evidence that there will be a payback. What is needed is to identify potentially underused car parks (which are also suitable for heavy vehicle usage) and make a realistic case as to how much business and revenue might be generated for both the council and local businesses.

 

[timdownieuk]

I can't see the difference between long-stay motorhomers and travellers - other than I'd like to think that the former don't leave rubbish behind.

I'd like to think that motorhomers would move on on request whilst travellers never seem to move without a court order. ;-)

I think motorhomers would also be less likely to use school playing fields, water company tanker filling facilities, in fact anywhere they can physically get their vans.

I do agree though that we need to be very careful that we never appear guilty of any of the sins committed by travellers. Non-campers may struggle to see any difference.

Perhaps we need window stickers with something like "We support responsible motorhoming. Happy to move on on request"? Okay, wording could be better but you get my drift.

Tim

 

[Alan]

East Lindsey council run very little of the seafront between Skeg and chapel st Leonard's now. The golf course owns there seafront and have it barriered off to pedestrians .and about 200 yards north of winthorpe ave it's in private ownership up to chapel.
Alan

 

[Bertie Bassett]

It is absolutely correct that if Powys can offer facilities then other councils can as well. However, what is not often appreciated is that many councils have never heard of the aires system nor or facilities offered by some UK councils. They only learn of them when somebody takes the trouble to tell them. It is also no good just making councils aware of other facilities and expecting them to use limited resources to set up projects without some evidence that there will be a payback. What is needed is to identify potentially underused car parks (which are also suitable for heavy vehicle usage) and make a realistic case as to how much business and revenue might be generated for both the council and local businesses.

And nobody's done more to further the aim than you GJH and for that many thanks; however the problem I have found with many local and national government bodies is getting individuals to think outside the box. The 'traveller' problem is not found solely in UK, but having seen a company of CRS move a group of 'travellers' on near Nimes a couple of years back all we seem to lack in UK is the bottle! The problem is only out of hand here because there is ineffectual leadership at so many levels in our society! Bottle, a commodity sadly lacking at all levels of governance in our country.

 

[Abacist]

I have a feeling that the judiciary is the problem as its them that keep passing ridiculous sentences and there is no point taking a case to court if you know that the judge is going to go against you.

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[GJH]

And nobody's done more to further the aim than you GJH and for that many thanks; however the problem I have found with many local and national government bodies is getting individuals to think outside the box. The 'traveller' problem is not found solely in UK, but having seen a company of CRS move a group of 'travellers' on near Nimes a couple of years back all we seem to lack in UK is the bottle! The problem is only out of hand here because there is ineffectual leadership at so many levels in our society! Bottle, a commodity sadly lacking at all levels of governance in our country.

I take the point you are making but comparing the actions of the CRS with that of authorities in this country has no value. The police and local authorities here are constrained by national legislation and have no option but to follow it - a far cry from lack of bottle. Also, any perceived traveller problem is only one factor. Far more significant factors are alternative demands and site suitability (mainly in terms if weight limits and manoeuvering space).

 

[Bertie Bassett]

I take the point you are making but comparing the actions of the CRS with that of authorities in this country has no value. The police and local authorities here are constrained by national legislation and have no option but to follow it - a far cry from lack of bottle. Also, any perceived traveller problem is only one factor. Far more significant factors are alternative demands and site suitability (mainly in terms if weight limits and manoeuvering space).

If you are saying that there are no laws in this country to deal with travellers then you are wrong, there are plenty. If you are suggesting that the forces of law and order in this country are bursting with bottle to take the easy option then you are right. The soft target has become the easy option, a very brief scan over other threads on this forum will support that belief.

 

[GJH]

Yes, there are laws in this country to deal with travellers but they do not give our authorities the same powers which the CRS have.
There are also laws in this country which give some travellers rights which the rest of us do not have. Some travellers who do not enjoy those rights claim them in order to delay the legal process to a point at which it coincides with the time they want to move on anyway. A similar brief scan over previous threads will also show up that.
Look at the Gypsy & Traveller Strategy on the web site of any county or unitary authority and it is plain what hoops they are obliged to go through, like it or not.

 

[voyagerstan]

the problem as i see it is a very complicated one . typicaly british nimby attitude with to many vested interests trying to screw everyone down . wot happened to live and let live . STAN

 

[tonyidle]

the problem as i see it is a very complicated one . typicaly british nimby attitude with to many vested interests trying to screw everyone down . wot happened to live and let live . STAN

If you are referring to 'travellers' when you say live and let live you obviously have no experience of their 'alternative morality'!

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[Bertie Bassett]

Yes, there are laws in this country to deal with travellers but they do not give our authorities the same powers which the CRS have.
There are also laws in this country which give some travellers rights which the rest of us do not have. Some travellers who do not enjoy those rights claim them in order to delay the legal process to a point at which it coincides with the time they want to move on anyway. A similar brief scan over previous threads will also show up that.
Look at the Gypsy & Traveller Strategy on the web site of any county or unitary authority and it is plain what hoops they are obliged to go through, like it or not.

I can't quibble with any of that GJH.

 

[busby]

Cant believe all this fuss, who wants to stay in the Skegness area...BUSBY...

 

[johnp10]

the problem as i see it is a very complicated one . typicaly british nimby attitude with to many vested interests trying to screw everyone down . wot happened to live and let live . STAN

It was thrown away on our behalf by the freeloading bums who think it's ok to monopolise a facility and empty shit where they want to.
Say what you want, THAT is the crux of this problem.

I'll repeat what I said in an earlier post:
This is NOT "wild camping".
Wilding surely involves camping "in the wild"?
What many mean by "Wilding" is "Not Paying".

 

[Larrynwin]

We are on an Aire at Le Touquet at present, enough for 50 Motorhomes enhanced by its beach/village location.
At 13€ a night better than the 25+ € it would cost on a site.
Where have we done our shopping and where have we eaten, in Le Touquet.
Perhaps a bit of real research and positive action (not defensive)by local councils providing similar facilities in the UK might benefit all in the future.
This would perhaps spread the rewards from motorhome shoppers around a locality and not just in the pockets of commercial and club sites .

 

[timdownieuk]

It was thrown away on our behalf by the freeloading bums who think it's ok to monopolise a facility and empty shit where they want to.
Say what you want, THAT is the crux of this problem.

I'll repeat what I said in an earlier post:
This is NOT "wild camping".
Wilding surely involves camping "in the wild"?
What many mean by "Wilding" is "Not Paying".

In a nutshell. Well said.

Tim

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[buttons]

It was thrown away on our behalf by the freeloading bums who think it's ok to monopolise a facility and empty shit where they want to.
Say what you want, THAT is the crux of this problem.

I'll repeat what I said in an earlier post:
This is NOT "wild camping".
Wilding surely involves camping "in the wild"?
What many mean by "Wilding" is "Not Paying".

That's not what Mr Paul Marriott, a businessman from Spalding said,
he said we are not just tinkers, vagabonds – we are genuine people.

 

[Alan]

I probably live closer to Hutoft than most on here,and the last time I visited (in a car)their was toilets on the site so why would people dump crap in the dunes if they were going there every weekend.Also the council have just taken two skips of sand from Hutoft to Lincoln for a sandpit for the kids for the summer hols ,would they do that if it was contaminated with human waste.
Reading about Hutoft on the internet I appears that none of the 40 people that had there names taken have received any summons.
Jacksons corner lay-by that we live close by (200yards) have motorhomes and caravans staying most weekends, and lots of people complaining about toilets being emptied down the bank but as far as I know no one has actually seen it happening. I walk by several times a day and I've never seen any one emptying a cassette
Alan

 

[Wildman]

Thanks Alan that confirms most of our thoughts, so the next question is how many councillors have declared an interest when its debated in council.

 

[GJH]

(snip)
Perhaps a bit of real research and positive action (not defensive)by local councils providing similar facilities in the UK might benefit all in the future.
This would perhaps spread the rewards from motorhome shoppers around a locality and not just in the pockets of commercial and club sites .

The point is that research/action will only happen if councils are made aware of a potential demand. A number of councils I've spoken to simply hadn't heard of any such demand. If each of us could identify some potential site and make an outline case for it then we might see progress.

 

[Alan]

Thanks Alan that confirms most of our thoughts, so the next question is how many councillors have declared an interest when its debated in council.

Yes every where there are people parking motorhomes there are accusations of toilet dumping,we all have mobile phones with camaras nowadays but I don't know of anyone who has ever caught anybody in the act with a photo
Alan

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