Motorhome for skiing and biking

There's one for sale on here at the minute, Flair, Sounds a great buy, fully loaded.
 
John Russell said:
@martin You've all pointed out quite a few pitfalls so we'll avoid those.

@Jenben @clanjones Thanks for the helpful info. @haganap Great list thanks, just what I was looking for.

Looks like an N&B Flair on Iveco is the way to go. Probably around 2000 to keep within budget.

Any thoughts on prices? Were there any major changes around this time I should be aware of?
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Hi John, you can check out all the spec and model details year by year here, http://liner-forum.eu/clou-mobile/n...-clou-liner-broschueren-catalogues-brochures/

N+B had a Flair production run from 2000 to the end of 2005 without any major changes as far as I know, in 2005 build they introduced the 3.0 litre engine but prior to that it was the tried and tested 2.8 IVECO with the 6 speed manual gearbox, it was also available on a Fiat FWD chassis or Merc sprinter RWD.

As far as price is concerned these van are well respected so hold their value quite well, what we paid for ours at 6 years old would have bought a brand new van from a different manufacturer and 7 years down the line it has not changed much in value, do your homework, check out the prices in Germany on Mobile.de and you will realise that at the moment this type of van is actually cheaper in the UK with € to £ exchange rate.

Happy hunting.

Martin
 
@Southdowners The Arto is less expensive, but being FWD won't have the same traction in snowy conditions as the Flair with 4-wheel RWD. Having driven a lot in the alps, and visiting places that may be a bit off the beaten path, I think the Flair's drivetrain is preferable. Of course if I can't find an affordable one, then the Arto looks good.

@CazPaul Yes it's well-specc'ed and looks like it's been well-cared for, which is probably reflected in the price. Unfortunately a bit over my budget, but it is in my area so maybe I should take a look.

@martin Looks from the brochures like the Iveco came in 2001?
 
John Russell said:
@Southdowners The Arto is less expensive, but being FWD won't have the same traction in snowy conditions as the Flair with 4-wheel RWD. Having driven a lot in the alps, and visiting places that may be a bit off the beaten path, I think the Flair's drivetrain is preferable. Of course if I can't find an affordable one, then the Arto looks good.

@CazPaul Yes it's well-specc'ed and looks like it's been well-cared for, which is probably reflected in the price. Unfortunately a bit over my budget, but it is in my area so maybe I should take a look.

@martin Looks from the brochures like the Iveco came in 2001?
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Yes correct John it looks like the RWD option came in the second year of that model production, If you want to alert me in the thread that is great but you need to use @funflair as @martin is somebody completely different but would be welcome to join in all the same.

Martin

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John Russell said:
@Southdowners The Arto is less expensive, but being FWD won't have the same traction in snowy conditions as the Flair with 4-wheel RWD. Having driven a lot in the alps, and visiting places that may be a bit off the beaten path, I think the Flair's drivetrain is preferable. Of course if I can't find an affordable one, then the Arto looks good.
@martin Looks from the brochures like the Iveco came in 2001?
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You're right of course. We took our vehicle to the French Alps when we first got it and it was brilliant in the snow. We took snow chains but didn't need them as the combination of 4 wheel RWD and snow tyres were fantastic.
 
Whichever van you decide to go for I would double check the power of the heating system. My previous van had a 6 kw Truma boiler which kept us warm down to -8c. Our present van's heating system is useless. We have a 2011 Bavaria which only has a 4 kw Truma. I left the heating system on overnight on our driveway in -3c and it was still freezing cold in the morning. I did get the heating system checked out. I have solved the problem by fitting a cheap Chinese Diesel heater which is brilliant. Hardly uses any diesel and keeps the van toasty warm in -12c. Quiet running, no more noise than the Truma heater. I think it works out cheaper to run than using gas.
 
haganap said:
Niesman & Bischoff Arto 79 on a tag axle. I don't say this lightly enough, this is an excellent ski bus and a good size garage makes it really useable. I probably would not have gone tag axle and being front wheel drive is not as good as others driving in the snow, but with snow tyres it's another animal. I kid you not that this van is so warm that unlike @Jenben I have to turn the heating off in the day or the dogs would die from the heat. Been down to -25 with no issues at all and once it gets warm it stays warm. It uses hardly any gas because of its superb insulation. I may consider a Flair in the future as it's rear wheel drive but to be honest, I think its a bit taller as well and just love the look of our arto. It does everything that I need but also sucks money up at the tolls because of the extra wheels.
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Are the Flair and Arto built the same, would a Flair (Circa 2012) be this good?
 
Onemanandhisdog said:
Are the Flair and Arto built the same, would a Flair (Circa 2012) be this good?
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Yes and no would be the simple answer I think. The construction is essentially the same but the Flair has thicker walls and no ply wood in the garage floor which can be an issue on some Arto's "oops 2012 should be OK", the Flair will have Alde heating for sure but the Arto's can be a mix with some blown air and some Alde again year and spec dependent.

So essentially Yes.

Martin
 
Onemanandhisdog said:
Are the Flair and Arto built the same, would a Flair (Circa 2012) be this good?
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No, clearly the Arto is built better, it gets under bridges and in service stations. i jest.


much the much to be honest. The flair's major contribution is that it's on a RWD Iveco. If the Arto was too I would have one all the time but saying that the fiat 3-0L is a trustworthy work horse but sadly now of course thanks to our EU cousins the 3-0l is no longer made and the 2.3 has taken up the mantle. I just don't fancy that in such a big van like mine to be honest.

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Wonder what you think of this:
https://suchen.mobile.de/wohnwagen-...ek-bei-hamburg/275136305.html?action=parkItem

An 05/2001 N&B Flair 8000i Iveco Daily 2.8TDi on 188k km for €34,900 asking price, around £30,000 at current rates. Should be some wiggle room on that too.

It's got what looks like a Dometic macerating toilet, which might be handy for the extra capacity. I'm tempted to take a look - any weak points?
 
John Russell said:
Wonder what you think of this:
https://suchen.mobile.de/wohnwagen-inserat/niesmann-bischoff-flair-8000-i-4xel-stützen-aut-sat-tv-2xsolar-ahk-schwarzenbek-bei-hamburg/275136305.html?action=parkItem

An 05/2001 N&B Flair 8000i Iveco Daily 2.8TDi on 188k km for €34,900 asking price, around £30,000 at current rates. Should be some wiggle room on that too.

It's got what looks like a Dometic macerating toilet, which might be handy for the extra capacity. I'm tempted to take a look - any weak points?
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Have you had a look at the 7100 that was advertised on here, it looks a good van.
 
I think it looks to be a lovely vehicle. I like the layout and the leather upholstery. You sometimes get bizarre colours and patterns in older vehicles - this one looks stylish. Levellers and macerating toilet are real plus points as are the solar panels, etc.
 
Here's the English translation.

You can never tell until you actually see them in person, it looks a solid buy first glance. It wont be fast that's for sure, 6 tonne with 146hp, has it got full engine service history, hundreds of questions to be asked.

Model: 2001
Engine/chassis: IVECO Daily 2.8 Tue/Integrated
Power: 107 KW/146 hp
Transmission: 6th manual transmission
Ab. Total weight: 6000 KG
Bed (s): Double bed in the rear cross + large lift bed
Seat groups: Bar version with single seat group
Upholstery: Leather equipment
L./B./H./: 8520 mm./2323 mm./3280 mm.
Places to sleep: 5
Registered seats: 5
Seat belt: 4
Euro NORM KAT: 3 would be converted to 4 Green plaque
Rear wheel/twin tire
WOHNMOBIL SONDERAUSSTATING:
Niemann + Bischoff Flair 8000 I (TOP AUSSTATTING)
Air conditioning for driver's room
Trailer clutch (slowed down: 3000 KG)!!!
Large garage (see pictures)
Double floor
Winter Festival (ALDE heating)
4x Elek. Lift supports + remote control
Garage with 2x doors
Electrical. Windows
2x Elek. Mirrors
Pilot seats/rotating seats
Goldschmitt air suspension rear axle
Goldschmitt feathers in front
Driver's seat height adjustable
Seats with mid-armrest
Double bed in the rear
Large lift bed
ISRI-held front + rear
Bar Version
 
@CazPaul Thanks for the translation, the spec looks good.

I'm hoping to pay a visit to the 7100 on here, when they get back.

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I wouldn’t want all that rubbish in the garage to be honest, otherwise (y)

Martin
 
I took a look at it, drives OK, but bouncy on bumps. I think the dampers/shock absorbers need replacing.

Internally, there are a few small glitches due to age. Loose hinges, that sort of thing most of which just need a bit of attention.

One issue is that the window blinds don't fold away without help. Another is that the plastic which moves the window catches has broken so one catch has to be moved by hand to open or lock the windows.

Is it possible to get replacement parts for the windows?
 

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