Motorhome Alarm Or Tracker?

[Southdowners]

We've decided on a MH but it doesn't have an alarm or tracker. We're quite surprised that the alarm isn't standard but obviously it isn't. Anyway, we'd feel happier to have a security system of some sort. Which would you recommend? An alarm or tracker?

 

[eddie]

The Association of British Insurers own the Motor Industry Repair and Research Centre (MIRRC) based in Thatcham.

At MIRRC they stringently test and monitor the criteria of submitted security devices. There is a charge for this service to, the owners of the product. Lets use us, Van Bitz as an example. Strikeback system has been submitted to be tested to a known criteria. It has met or exceeded the criteria in each of the different tests. So Strikeback is added to the list they compile, stating when it was tested, what category the product is intended for etc. The list has become to be known as the Thatcham list (presumably as MIRRC doesn't trip of the tongue lol)

So The underwriters will specify a "Thatcham alarm system" and the broker/sales people will advise their client that a Cat One alarm has to be installed. They will rarely ask for proof that the system has been installed, taking their clients word that one has been fitted.

In a theft situation the underwriters would require to see that a MIRRC tested Thatcham listed Category One alarm immobiliser had been fitted. One has to presume that if a relevant Category One alarm installation certificate couldn't be produced that there could be complications.

Why do the insurance companies rely on Thatcham? because they jointly own it and it makes them money and if self funding from the money that it charges business's like ours to test our products to put it on a list that the insurers can use, without having to check the specification of every system.

So does the scheme work? Well yes, in the main for the tens of thousands of vehicles insured it seems to. But our market is more specialised, so it can be that in some cases some one wants to buy a motorhome from mainland Europe and it has a European sourced security system. Equally it can be a RV imported with a totally adequate system, which will not be acceptable to insurers as it is not on the list.

It works both ways. The French for example have their own equivalent and when we looked at selling Strikeback in France it was just too much red tape to be 100% sure that in the event of a claim that Strikeback would satisfy the French insurers, and again frankly for a handful of alarms that we "may" have sold it wasn't worth taking the system on.

So, I would imagine that so long as you are 100% sure that the Cobra that you have had fitted is exactly the same model number with the same programmed features (which do change from Country to Country) you could suggest that the TUL number (the test and evaluation number unique to each unit, from each manufacturer) could be used. I would strongly advise though that you get the installers to submit a recognised Installation certificate and lodge it with your insurers. If your with a broker, their interpretation and the actual insurance underwriters may be different.

It must seem frustrating but for 99.9% of the time the scheme works, Thatcham doesn't cost the ABI and the ABI members get a approval system at not cost to themselves!

 

[old1]

That's why you should have Tracker with imobliser, when the van is safe & stopped, ie,, traffic lights, the tracker company do what it says on the tin & imobilize it.

Worth every penny.

 

[eddie]

That's why you should have Tracker with imobliser, when the van is safe & stopped, ie,, traffic lights, the tracker company do what it says on the tin & imobilize it.

Worth every penny.

Better still have a system that you control yourself. That way you use your smart phone as part of your overall security system. So a thief will need to steal your motorhome keys, your security radio key, your phone, your phone unlock code and know how to use the system!

Shut the stable door before the horse bolts

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Our insurers wanted copies of the alarm (Strikeback) installation certificate and the tracker installation certificate as a condition of even offering the insurance never mind just giving a discount for it.

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[old1]

Better still have a system that you control yourself. That way you use your smart phone as part of your overall security system. So a thief will need to steal your motorhome keys, your security radio key, your phone, your phone unlock code and know how to use the system!

Shut the stable door before the horse bolts

Will the insurance company allow this type, opperated by the owner ? as disscount annual premium. As my previous post, it helped ours massively.

 

[Fragle]

Will the insurance company allow this type, opperated by the owner ? as disscount annual premium. As my previous post, it helped ours massively.

Probably not. Ours wouldn't but then again you only get so much in discounts
We found that vanbitz tracker although not allowed by our insurance I think made £20 difference with or without tracker but to pay a subscription maybe £100 for a tracker per year. I'm more than happy to keep that money in my account and track the van myself. And I can still isolate it from my phone. That's if they get past the alarm. They'll need some bloody good ear defenders

 

[Southdowners]

There's some really interesting and useful information here - thanks again.

We're going to have to go for a Thatcham Category 1 – electronic alarm and immobiliser as the insurance company didn't even quote for less than this category.

 

[Minxy]

Better still have a system that you control yourself. That way you use your smart phone as part of your overall security system. So a thief will need to steal your motorhome keys, your security radio key, your phone, your phone unlock code and know how to use the system!

Shut the stable door before the horse bolts

What system are you using as a Tracker ... sounds interesting

 

[Ralph-n-Bev]

Hi @eddievanbitz
Ralph is converting a new 2014 Peugeot Boxer xlwb.
Because he's not going to finish converting it within the 120 days , we will have to cancel with our present insurers.
No way will underwriters extend time. Bit annoying , as we are nearly there......
We shall get a part refund as the 120 days went on to normal insurance once converted, to run out January.
£80 better in our bank than theirs.
Anyway......
We shall be getting insured with Adrian flux the beginning of next month. They require a thatcham alarm and imobiliser .
I know that Pug has an alarm and dead locks but not an imobiliser . Wether it's a thatcham I've no idea.
We would be interested in having one fitted or the one we have converted? What sort of price are they. Would Ralph be able to fit one if we got one supplied from you.
He's in there now , clamping wires .......
Thanks.

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[Minxy]

Bev - AFAIK your insurance company will need a certificate stamped/signed by the company installing the immobiliser/alarm upgrade so Ralph doing it won't be sufficient.

 

[Bobby22]

New fiat Ducatos come with a Proper "Tracker" as standard, one needs to subscribe to tracker to activate it though..............I'm not sure if the Peugeot is exactly the same but you could enquire.

Edit...sorry it is Swift that fit Tracker as standard.

 

[old1]

My new Fiat Ducato didn't come with one, I had the Alarm/tracker & imobiliser fitted together for £600 & 2 years tracker included,
With this Adrian Flux gave me insurance for £300 from £800, as all my no claims are on other vehicles

 

[Bobby22]

Sorry i did say fiat ducato as is mine ...but it is Swift that fit the Tracker as standard........as at 9/2013...............i think i've made the same mistake before.

 

[Ralph-n-Bev]

Right.... Ralph's just had a look on Pugs paperwork.
It says that the van comes with an antitheft device that conforms with thatcham standards. ( It's got a transponder electronic immobiliser System, when the ignition is switched on the key transmits a code to the ECU which gives the engine authorisation to start)
Dead locks to front and rear doors and exterior and anti lift alarm.
Plus standard central and independent locking of cab and load space.
So does anyone know if that's sufficient for insurance purposes, or will we need to upgrade to what the above members have had fitted. Would we still need to have a certificate ?
Thanks.

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[Deleted member 29692]

Right.... Ralph's just had a look on Pugs paperwork.
It says that the van comes with an antitheft device that conforms with thatcham standards. ( It's got a transponder electronic immobiliser System, when the ignition is switched on the key transmits a code to the ECU which gives the engine authorisation to start)
Dead locks to front and rear doors and exterior and anti lift alarm.
Plus standard central and independent locking of cab and load space.
So does anyone know if that's sufficient for insurance purposes, or will we need to upgrade to what the above members have had fitted. Would we still need to have a certificate ?
Thanks.

Depends on what your insurance company want.

What you have is the manufacturers standard factory fit immobiliser which normally conforms to Thatcham 2, and you won't get a certificate for it. But because it's standard fit the insurance company will know about it and just treat it as manufacturers immobiliser.

If they have asked for, or offered a discount for, Thatcham 1 then that means an alarm, fitted by an approved installer and with a certificate issued.

If they want a tracker then they comply with either Thatcham 5 or 6 and again it will have to be an approved type and installer and a certificate will be required.

The various DIY ones are all well and good but none of them can have Thatcham approval by the simple fact that they aren't being fitted by an approved installer so for insurance purposes are usually a complete waste of time and money.

 

[RS_rob]

Our insurers wanted copies of the alarm (Strikeback) installation certificate and the tracker installation certificate as a condition of even offering the insurance never mind just giving a discount for it.

After returning from Vanbitz & not being offered work the next day the 1st thing I did was phone my insurance company & inform them of the installation & having prepared a scan sent it of while on the phone & had the discount applied instantly.
BUT
When the renewal came through it only showed the alarm so I phoned them to explain that the installation was for an Alarm, A tracker & a Immobilizer the whole shibang the lady had to consult her manager came back & said as long as you got the receipts thats fine" & thats several discounts that add up to one not huge but it made a difference on the policy

 

[Bobby22]

Right.... Ralph's just had a look on Pugs paperwork.
It says that the van comes with an antitheft device that conforms with thatcham standards. ( It's got a transponder electronic immobiliser System, when the ignition is switched on the key transmits a code to the ECU which gives the engine authorisation to start)
Dead locks to front and rear doors and exterior and anti lift alarm.
Plus standard central and independent locking of cab and load space.
So does anyone know if that's sufficient for insurance purposes, or will we need to upgrade to what the above members have had fitted. Would we still need to have a certificate ?
Thanks.

Insurance coy will cover most vans and if you tell them that the van has Factory Fitted alarm and imobiliser they will quote on the van you have.
Most modern vehicles have decent anti theft systems and insurance coy know whats good and bad
When you give the van reg........they know what security is fitted as standard.

 

[eddie]

When you give the van reg........they know what security is fitted as standard.

No they don't, sorry. Think about a Fiat cab leaving the factory being turned in say a Hymer A Class! No original doors, bonnet or even cab or cabin, just an engine with two front wheels lol

 

[Bobby22]

No they don't, sorry. Think about a Fiat cab leaving the factory being turned in say a Hymer A Class! No original doors, bonnet or even cab or cabin, just an engine with two front wheels lol

When a vehicle is registered all the details go to a data bank at the DVLA. Insurance companies , parts depts , tyre fitters, and the police all use this for the details.
If you had read the thread properly, i was referring to Ralph and Bevs Peugeot van conversion, i know it is pretty special but it does come with security fitted as STANDARD.

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[eddie]

If you had read the thread properly, i was referring to Ralph and Bevs Peugeot van conversion, i know it is pretty special but it does come with security fitted as STANDARD.

Most modern vehicles have decent anti theft systems and insurance coy know whats good and bad

When you give the van reg........they know what security is fitted as standard.

I assumed that when you said "most" that you meant "most" My mistake