It's not clear whether they're killing them any quicker than other cars.
Motorcycle fatality (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gerry mcg
- Start date
stevewagner
LIFE MEMBER
We got hit from behind on my Honda Deauville a few years back while waiting to join a roundabout. It was an 85 year old woman driving an automatic, she said she got confused between the accelerator and the brake. Police came to see me and said that she volunteered to surrender her license so they decided to take no action. Saw her driving a few months later!
I suffered from whiplash and Janet hurt her hips. We had specialist claim solicitors involved to cover losses who kept urging us to take a minor injury settlement. Janet recovered quite quickly where as I suffered with neck aches and every morning it felt like my neck was full of sharp sand. After a year the solicitors arranged for a scan which revealed a broken neck! Got referred to a specialist who said that joints 5&6 had now fused together and would not want to operate at my age, so I have to live with it.
I suffered from whiplash and Janet hurt her hips. We had specialist claim solicitors involved to cover losses who kept urging us to take a minor injury settlement. Janet recovered quite quickly where as I suffered with neck aches and every morning it felt like my neck was full of sharp sand. After a year the solicitors arranged for a scan which revealed a broken neck! Got referred to a specialist who said that joints 5&6 had now fused together and would not want to operate at my age, so I have to live with it.
Article looking at the safety stats of self-driving taxi trials in San Francisco... TLDR:... looks like they are at least on par with and probably safer than humans.
arstechnica.com
Are self-driving cars already safer than human drivers?
I learned a lot by reading dozens of Waymo and Cruise crash reports.
Although with self driving cars, we're going to have to get used to the fact that even if they are safer overall, they'll still have silly accidents:Article looking at the safety stats of self-driving taxi trials in San Francisco... TLDR:... looks like they are at least on par with and probably safer than humans.
Are self-driving cars already safer than human drivers?
I learned a lot by reading dozens of Waymo and Cruise crash reports.
"
- A Cruise AV ran into the back of a city bus. Cruise subsequently determined that its software got confused because it was an articulated bus (the kind with an accordion joint in the middle) and Cruise’s software couldn’t handle two parts of a vehicle moving in slightly different directions.
Tombola
LIFE MEMBER
yeah, what do i google bikers killed in usa by teslas ?
everything on the internet is obvs true like.
I have real world experience from both sides, and all I can say is when a car hit me on my stationary motorbike, and ruined me for up to now........ a year and a half... if it was a Tesla it would not have hit me. Fact !
Fact 2, The woman putting make up on while driving that hit me is not as safe as a tesla
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It will depend on the programming. I don't know how many have been in a Tesla but it shows on a screen a representation of whats in front and to the sides it picks up people walking on the pavement and dogs! In the scenario you give I suspect that the majority of drivers would actually instinctively head away from the oncoming vehicle.
Tombola
LIFE MEMBER
the car has a constant "bubble" around it looking for safety all the time....and is supposed to take the safest route.
A woman stepped out in front of me in North Wales ages ago and before I could put down my pint and steer the car and brake the bloody thing already did it, that was the first time i experienced it, and I had to stop and think how? what?where??
then realised.
NOW! did it know there was no car on the opposite side of the road coming at me before it braked and swerved me and chose that instead of the empty pavement? dunno? but it was bloomin quick.
that said, I have had a few phantom safety moments on motorways etc now and then, and it learns as it goes so tends not to do that at the same spot again. Its constantly recording and feeding miles back to the neural networks.
My understanding is that the approach everyone is taking to their automated driving systems is to program in rules of the road and how to respond.
Except Tesla. They just provide millions of hours of recorded driving to self learning system so it eventually behaves like a natural driver.
Both methods have their pros and cons. Tesla argue that their method is more flexible as it'll work anywhere and is likely to know how you respond in complex situations where hard rules can conflict. The downside is that you can't train for a scenario unless you've got examples of it. So how will it know how to respond to a pedestrian walking out in front without that situation happening? Volunteers?
This is an oversimplification as Tesla can still set objectives for the AI to achieve, so it still has rules, just they guide rather than dictate.
Except Tesla. They just provide millions of hours of recorded driving to self learning system so it eventually behaves like a natural driver.
Both methods have their pros and cons. Tesla argue that their method is more flexible as it'll work anywhere and is likely to know how you respond in complex situations where hard rules can conflict. The downside is that you can't train for a scenario unless you've got examples of it. So how will it know how to respond to a pedestrian walking out in front without that situation happening? Volunteers?
This is an oversimplification as Tesla can still set objectives for the AI to achieve, so it still has rules, just they guide rather than dictate.
The limitation of the Tesla system then is that presumably will never be better than a human driver but it sounds like the driverless taxis in LA are already. It also sounds like from reading the article that if the other vehicles on the road were also driverless the accident rate could be significantly lower still. Cue lots of people complaining about their rights to have accidents being taken away!
It learns from humans. It doesn't mean it can't outperform. It can react faster and using far more detailed inputs and control on things like how much each wheel is slipping.
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Silver-Fox
LIFE MEMBER
- Aug 9, 2019
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- MH
- Bessacarr E442
It's tragic news on both counts, when I learnt to fly many years ago, part of the training was to be taught about the genuine blind spot in human eyes.It is where the optic nerve goes beyond the rear of the eye. With a motorcycle being razor thin as it approaches a junction,the gap in the picture caused by the blind spot is rewritten by the brain . this means when the driver of the car says the bike came from nowhere ,I just didn't see him...its invariably true .The answer is to rock backwards and forwards at junctions to cover the blind spot.Why this is not taught in the driving test,I will never know.
I think that's possibly partly true if you only have one eye but with both open the blind spot in one eye is covered by a seeing area in the other. Also the blind spot is probably far enough off centre not to have any effect looking down a road. If you rock backwards and forwards but look in the same direction the blind spot will stay in the same place as it's a fixed distance off the centre of vision not related to head position.
The blind spot in humans is located about 12–15° temporally and 1.5° below the horizontal and is roughly 7.5° high and 5.5° wide so you have approximately 25 degree wide uninterrupted central field of view in each eye with the blind spot in one eye covered by the other.
If you lose the sight in one eye after adapting it's perfectly legal to drive despite the blind spot.
When people don't see a motorbike I think it's poor concentration
Silver-Fox
LIFE MEMBER
I don’t believe there are such things as accidents.
There’s always a cause and an outcome.
RowleyBirkinQC
LIFE MEMBER
Presumably why emergency services ceased using the term ‘accident’ years ago now. That term almost excuses anyone of responsibility/liability by suggesting the outcome was unavoidable, unforeseen, could not be predicted or mitigated in advance etc.
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I agree although I think there are often several factors that cause an incident to occur. It could be poor road design innapropriate speed limits a tired driver the other one speeding etc. My concern sometimes is that people want an easy explanation.
- Aug 9, 2019
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- 163
- Funster No
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- MH
- Bessacarr E442
You make some valid points,but rather than bore everyone with the minutiae of human eyesight I will just refer you to
"Human Performance and limitations "by RD campbell and M Bagshaw chapter 3 in particular the experiment on page 25.
Where exactly do you expect me to look at that! The physiology is factual I can get into minutiae if you like but I suspect that the main benefit of physically moving backwards and forwards while looking down the road will be some apparent movement of any object against the background due to paralax but mainly concentrating longer and being aware.
By the way I did a fair bit of flying too a big problem with young pilots is empty space myopia if you're interested!
Ok. Get used to outcomes that would have been unlikely with a human driver. Even if safety is better overall.
- Aug 9, 2019
- 151
- 163
- Funster No
- 63,113
- MH
- Bessacarr E442
Sorry if that sounded condescending ,but to reply to the valid points you made and further the concept would of taken ages to put in writing and required scanning medical drawings etc and I am not sure people would of been interested to that extent .Your right although in theory it should not happen ,in practice facial features such as the nose stop vision from both eyes overlapping.
In conditions such as poor light affect acuity infact you get better view of an object by looking slightly to the left or right as there are far more rods in peripheral vision rather than the central cones.
If you would like to discuss further PM me so we do not bore anyone not interested
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