Mortes Angles - Driving in France

[Big Colin]

Hey folks

We'll soon be heading off for a getaway and will be driving through France. My Boxer is .5t but its an L4H3 model and is BIG. I'm aware of the requirements in France for the "Mortes Angles" (Blind spot sticker requirement) for vehicles >3.5t (including motor homes) but was wondering if anyone has attracted the wrong attention for NOT having them on a larger .5t vehicle which the authorities might assume is greater than 3.5t?

I'm happy to just go ahead and purchase them, after all my vehicle IS the same size as a van that's >3.5t and lets be honest, safety first for other road users and all, but then again, I don't want to attract the wrong attention for incorrectly using them, if there is such a thing.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks.

Link here for the requirement - https://www.fpluk.com/single-post/are-you-compliant-to-travel-to-france

 

[dawsey]

The signs aren’t well designed IMHO. The first time I saw them I had to look hard at them to understand what they are saying, that shouldn’t be the case for a warning sign.

The angles where you are ‘visible’ to a driver are black, the angles where you might not be seen are yellow. I’d have had the angles where your are visible in green, and the dangerous angles in red.

Bikes may not be allowed on motorways, but other traffic is, and the stickers are not there purely for the benefit of cyclists. Many is the car that’s been side swiped by a lorry changing lane because the car was in the blind spot. Often, and terrifyingly, the sideswiped car then gets wedged under the front of the truck until it stops. LHD trucks in UK are especially susceptible to it, and UK RHD trucks/big vehicles on the continent.


While maybe not a perfect design, the stickers are cheap, simple and a great idea to save lives. Why would anyone legally obliged, or who acknowledged the benefit but maybe isn’t technically obliged resent putting them on? The only reason we don’t is that we are always both in the cab, it’s LHD, we are always in France, there are two rear view cams, a rear view mirror, and decent oblique angle mirrors. I’ve only one blind spot (a certain angle at a junction) and I make sure Bea OKs it before any manoeuvre.

 

[Ditcha]

And the point behind that comment is?

I have said before, two wrongs do not make a right.

Just asking for a friend but I wasn't aware that question was pointed at you so why ask?

 

[Nigel P]

Out of tunnel straight onto A16!

I must admit I've not read the decree but understood it was only in urban areas.

As I have mentioned in previous threads there is no reference to urban areas; it is also illogical to envisage the putting on and taking off the signs depending upon the areas you drive in. Additionally the exempt vehicles are agricultural, forestry and motorway/highway maintenance vehicles which also indicates the requirement is not confined to urban areas. They might not be pretty but it seems fairly clear that anything over 3.5T needs to have them (unless you have a Unimog!)

 

[PaulW2]

While maybe not a perfect design, the stickers are cheap, simple and a great idea to save lives. Why would anyone legally obliged, or who acknowledged the benefit but maybe isn’t technically obliged resent putting them on? The only reason we don’t is that we are always both in the cab, it’s LHD, we are always in France, there are two rear view cams, a rear view mirror, and decent oblique angle mirrors. I’ve only one blind spot (a certain angle at a junction) and I make sure Bea OKs it before any manoeuvre.

On the "not technically obliged to, but..." point.

Is one even allowed to use these stickers if one isn't required to? What does the law say?

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[MichaelT]

As I have mentioned in previous threads there is no reference to urban areas; it is also illogical to envisage the putting on and taking off the signs depending upon the areas you drive in. Additionally the exempt vehicles are agricultural, forestry and motorway/highway maintenance vehicles which also indicates the requirement is not confined to urban areas. They might not be pretty but it seems fairly clear that anything over 3.5T needs to have them (unless you have a Unimog!)

No mention in this of urban areas but maybe in the actual decree. This does however say (twice) to protect cyclists, pedestrians and people using mobility scooters who by law are not allowed on motorways etc. Personally as I've said previously in other threads its a stupid law as for motorhome you can have 2 exactly the same size/model and one plated at say 4.5t the other at 3.5t and one needs a sticker the other not but both pose the same risk. Would be better using length which is more the risk anyway.


Decree No. 2020-1396 of November 17, 2020 relating to signage indicating blind spots on vehicles whose total authorized weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes. Public concerned: Drivers, owners of vehicles weighing more than 3.5 tonnes, vulnerable users (notably cyclists, pedestrians, users of personal transport vehicles), control authorities. Subject: Signs indicating blind spots on vehicles whose total authorized weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes. Entry into force: The text comes into force on January 1, 2021. Notice: Article L. 313-1 of the Highway Code, introduced by article 55 of law no. 2019-1428 of December 24, 2019 orientation of mobility, requires that vehicles weighing more than 3.5 tonnes be equipped with signage materializing the position of blind spots affixed to the vehicle. This signage is posted in appropriate ways for the greatest possible visibility, in particular for cyclists, pedestrians and users of personal transport vehicles. This decree introduces the terms and conditions for implementing blind spot signage on vehicles weighing more than 3.5 tonnes and the sanctions relating to non-compliance with this signage. A ministerial decree specifies the conditions of application of this decree. References: The decree modifies the regulatory part of the highway code which can be consulted, in its version resulting from this modification, on the Légifrance website (https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr). And its implementing decree of January 5, 2021.

 

[cyberyacht]

If your van weighed 3850Kg, would you drive across a bridge over a raging torrent that had a 3500Kg limit?
"Do you feel lucky..."

 

[Nigel P]

No mention in this of urban areas but maybe in the actual decree. This does however say (twice) to protect cyclists, pedestrians and people using mobility scooters who by law are not allowed on motorways etc. Personally as I've said previously in other threads its a stupid law as for motorhome you can have 2 exactly the same size/model and one plated at say 4.5t the other at 3.5t and one needs a sticker the other not but both pose the same risk. Would be better using length which is more the risk anyway.


Decree No. 2020-1396 of November 17, 2020 relating to signage indicating blind spots on vehicles whose total authorized weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes. Public concerned: Drivers, owners of vehicles weighing more than 3.5 tonnes, vulnerable users (notably cyclists, pedestrians, users of personal transport vehicles), control authorities. Subject: Signs indicating blind spots on vehicles whose total authorized weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes. Entry into force: The text comes into force on January 1, 2021. Notice: Article L. 313-1 of the Highway Code, introduced by article 55 of law no. 2019-1428 of December 24, 2019 orientation of mobility, requires that vehicles weighing more than 3.5 tonnes be equipped with signage materializing the position of blind spots affixed to the vehicle. This signage is posted in appropriate ways for the greatest possible visibility, in particular for cyclists, pedestrians and users of personal transport vehicles. This decree introduces the terms and conditions for implementing blind spot signage on vehicles weighing more than 3.5 tonnes and the sanctions relating to non-compliance with this signage. A ministerial decree specifies the conditions of application of this decree. References: The decree modifies the regulatory part of the highway code which can be consulted, in its version resulting from this modification, on the Légifrance website (https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr). And its implementing decree of January 5, 2021.

The attachment included the decree and there is no mention of urban. Generally vehicles are graded by weight not length hence most legislation revolves around their weight rather than other attributes.

 

[MichaelT]

The attachment included the decree and there is no mention of urban. Generally vehicles are graded by weight not length hence most legislation revolves around their weight rather than other attributes.

I'm not disagreeing with you.....

 

[Ray-Vic]

Got them on the RV, there's noway that looks under 3.5 tons.
When we were abroad in April-June this year, some of the larger motorhomes had them some didn't.
I guess the gendarmes aren't taking much interest at the moment.

I wonder whether the French Police do similar to the Police in the UK where they have purges on certain things? For exapmle you hear nothing for ages about electric scooters, and then 150 get confiscated as there has been a purge on them, like they do with speeding, and drink driving at Christmas time.

I suppose the question ultimately is, are people willing to take the risk of fines or worse by knowingly breaking the law in the country they're in?

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[jerryz]

never heard of this '' Mortes Angles'' ???

is it death to anglos

 

[Ray-Vic]

As a bit of an aside, but keeping on the theme of blind spots, we actually saw first hand the result of them on the way home from a site a few weeks ago.

Travelling on the M20 in lane 2 just about to overtake a foreign registered (LHD) lorry and he did the classic 'indicate and immediately go move' resulting in me having to brake quite quickly to avoid him but, unfortunately, there was a car in front of me who now had his rear quarter in line with the lorry's cab meaning he side swiped him and t-boned him. It was absolutely horrific to watch, with much tyre squealing and banging. Goodness only knows what it was like for the occupants of the car as it shook us up just seeing it!

Blind spots are definitely an issue, even for cars, not only cycles and pedestrians.

 

[Silverfox0458]

never heard of this '' Mortes Angles'' ???

is it death to anglos

 

[97243]

Almost all French MHs will be 3.5t because an extra test is required for a licence above that weight. Added to that, we've seen so many French MHs that are clearly overweight (too many people, far too much equipment) that I think they just don't care about not having the correct licence.

You have to produce your licence to both the insurer and the registration office to confirm that you have the correct C1 classification. I have just renewed my licence as 70 approaches. Didn't need a test as I already have the C1, just a doc's certificate to renew it.

Edit - ignore the above, I have just seen the point you are making

 

[DDJC]

The law is a bit daft. We have a 3500kg, 7.15m semi integrated, and used to tow a little car on a >4m braked trailer. The total train weight was about 5000kg with a total length just under 12m. I wondered if I needed an Angles Morts sticker. I wrote to the appropriate French ministry and received the reply that, no the law depends entirely on the towing vehicle (i have posted this reply on MHF before somewhere).

So you have the ridiculous situation that if I up-plate (thinking about it), I need a sticker, towing or not. But if I don't up-plate, I could be 5 tonne, 12m long and not need one. Hasty lawmaking. The law should have been on the train length, not weight.

My other concern is that wearing the plates gives the Gendarmes a reason for pulling you, although, as another contributor mentioned, I don't think that they are interested in motorhomes.

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[cyberyacht]

never heard of this '' Mortes Angles'' ???

is it death to anglos

Yeah, they never got over Agincourt.