More French Rules

[DerryW]

Im gonna fit cameras instead ...sod putting those ugly things on the side of my van for the few hours or rarely days i spend in france getting to a nice country

Are cameras an acceptable alternative to those ugly stickers ?

 

[glenn2926]

How else would you suggest that they let you know they are there? I have lost count of the number of times I have politely spoken to walkers to let them know I am there, only to be met by the response "haven't you got a bloody bell on that thing?"

It’s not the bell itself, it’s the expectation that we, the walkers should move out of the way to let you through. How would you react if I came up behind you in my pickup on the road and sounded my horn to expect you to get out of my way as I want to get past? No doubt you wouldn’t like it but you expect pedestrians to accept it from cyclists. Cyclists do seem to want it all to suit them.

 

[deleted79651]

Im gonna fit cameras instead ...sod putting those ugly things on the side of my van for the few hours or rarely days i spend in france getting to a nice country

France is a beautiful country and it has some wonderful people who have shown Elaine and me a great deal of kindness. As our neighbour, René [yes, that really is his name!] says when I remark about some strange practice or regulation, 'Mais Stefan; c'est France!' , and that explains everything

Steve

 

[Lenny HB]

Im gonna fit cameras instead ...sod putting those ugly things on the side of my van for the few hours or rarely days i spend in france getting to a nice country

One day we will educate you boy on how nice France is for Motorhomes.

I love how the cyclists coming up behind us on the canal tow path ring their bell to get us to move out of their way. Can you imagine their reaction if I did this to them on the road when I want to get passed in my car or van. Seems like they want it all ways.

It's the ones without bells that piss me off. I always ring my bell when approaching pedestrians, it is a polite way of warning them.
Also tells then to get out of the boody way.

 

[Northernraider]

Are cameras an acceptable alternative to those ugly stickers ?

I believe so

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[Beltie]

It’s not the bell itself, it’s the expectation that we, the walkers should move out of the way to let you through. How would you react if I came up behind you in my pickup on the road and sounded my horn to expect you to get out of my way as I want to get past? No doubt you wouldn’t like it but you expect pedestrians to accept it from cyclists. Cyclists do seem to want it all to suit them.

Not at all. On the assumption that we are talking about a shared path, I'm am perfectly happy to slow down, let walkers know I am there and wait for them to move aside as I would with horse riders on the road. Or are you are suggesting I should continue my journey at walking pace? Of course, if you are talking about cyclists on a pedestrian only path, then that's a different matter entirely.

I think, like many people on this site, if not most, I am at various times a cyclist, car driver, motorhome driver and pedestrian and in each of those roles, I like to think I behave responsibly and courteously to all those other groups. We all need to show a bit more consideration and for some reason which I can't begin to fathom, this 'them and us' attitude to other road users seems to be a peculiarly British thing, and one I have not come across in other western European countries.

 

[glenn2926]

Not at all. On the assumption that we are talking about a shared path, I'm am perfectly happy to slow down, let walkers know I am there and wait for them to move aside as I would with horse riders on the road. Or are you are suggesting I should continue my journey at walking pace? Of course, if you are talking about cyclists on a pedestrian only path, then that's a different matter entirely.

I think, like many people on this site, if not most, I am at various times a cyclist, car driver, motorhome driver and pedestrian and in each of those roles, I like to think I behave responsibly and courteously to all those other groups. We all need to show a bit more consideration and for some reason which I can't begin to fathom, this 'them and us' attitude to other road users seems to be a peculiarly British thing, and one I have not come across in other western European countries.

Not prepared to answer the question then? I’ll ask it in another way. Would you like it if cars sounded their horn and expected you when cycling to get out of the way on the road? I guess you wouldn’t but still expect pedestrians to move out of your way when sharing a pathway.

 

[nicholsong]

It’s not the bell itself, it’s the expectation that we, the walkers should move out of the way to let you through. How would you react if I came up behind you in my pickup on the road and sounded my horn to expect you to get out of my way as I want to get past? No doubt you wouldn’t like it but you expect pedestrians to accept it from cyclists. Cyclists do seem to want it all to suit them.

When cycling on mixed cycle/pedestrian paths there may be room for me to pass a pedestrian, but I ring my bell to ensure they do not suddenly change their side of the path, or worse still let their dog do it on a long lead, or child.

Another interpretation of a polite blip on the bell, rather than an aggressive demand, is that it is a request for them to give way if they wish.

That is the way I interpret what the etiquette should be.

Geoff

 

[nicholsong]

The post # 45 link was the first time I have seen the new regulations spelt out in full detail.

I was amazed to find that the side stickers have to be within 1m of the front of the vehicle. If it is for cyclists benefit surely they have already endangered themselves by the time they get there as while they were coming up the inside the truck could easily have started moving, when stationary traffic moved or traffic lights changed.

I have not checked yet, but I am not sure I have enough vertical space, at that distance from the front, between the bottom of the wing mirror bracket and the wheel arch trim.

Geoff

 

[Beltie]

Not prepared to answer the question then? I’ll ask it in another way. Would you like it if cars sounded their horn and expected you when cycling to get out of the way on the road? I guess you wouldn’t but still expect pedestrians to move out of your way when sharing a pathway.

On a shared use path, cyclists and pedestrians will be moving at different speeds. Bicycles are essentially silent, and it is both sensible and courteous to let them know when a cyclist is approaching, I do not give a warning in the expectation that they will suddenly clear out of the way.
To answer your question directly, no I would not like you to sound your horn and expect me to get out of the way. The reasons being, a) I would not expect to be in your way in the first place b) I would already know you were there and c) if we were on a narrow stretch of road, I would already be looking for somewhere to ease over to let you past.

I think Geoff has nailed it in his comments above and I trust you will agree that his is a reasonable approach.

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[Beltie]

The OP's link was the first time I have seen the new regulations spelt out in full detail.

I was amazed to find that the side stickers have to be within 1m of the front of the vehicle. If it is for cyclists benefit surely they have already endangered themselves by the time they get there as while they were coming up the inside the truck could easily have started moving, when stationary traffic moved or traffic lights changed.

I have not checked yet, but I am not sure I have enough vertical space, at that distance from the front, between the bottom of the wing mirror bracket and the wheel arch trim.

Geoff

Yes they were my thoughts as well.

 

[glenn2926]

Yes they were my thoughts as well.

Seconded.

 

[glenn2926]

On a shared use path, cyclists and pedestrians will be moving at different speeds. Bicycles are essentially silent, and it is both sensible and courteous to let them know when a cyclist is approaching, I do not give a warning in the expectation that they will suddenly clear out of the way.
To answer your question directly, no I would not like you to sound your horn and expect me to get out of the way. The reasons being, a) I would not expect to be in your way in the first place b) I would already know you were there and c) if we were on a narrow stretch of road, I would already be looking for somewhere to ease over to let you past.

I think Geoff has nailed it in his comments above and I trust you will agree that his is a reasonable approach.

I wish cyclists (I am one by the way) were all like you. Here’s a true story from the summer before last. My brother and I were out in the dales on our motorbikes. We were on a very narrow back lane and caught up to a few cyclists on a steep up hill. Swaledale over to Wensleydale. They would not go into single file, looking back, glaring at us. We did eventually force our way passed very near to the top of the hill. We then decided to cruise down the long decent at around 5 to 10 miles per hour. The language from the cyclists was hilarious.

 

[Beltie]

Glenn, in the situation you describe, I would be as annoyed as you were, and I have come across the same sort of arrogance myself. Unfortunately, those sorts of indivduals exist in all groups of road users and it is not a purely cyclst thing.

I know the roads well in the area you describe, was it The Fleak? If it was, last time I cycled over there, I was deliberately baulked and obstructed by a shooting party, so I share your pain!

 

[glenn2926]

Glenn, in the situation you describe, I would be as annoyed as you were, and I have come across the same sort of arrogance myself. Unfortunately, those sorts of indivduals exist in all groups of road users and it is not a purely cyclst thing.

I know the roads well in the area you describe, was it The Fleak? If it was, last time I cycled over there, I was deliberately baulked and obstructed by a shooting party, so I share your pain!

It was, not many know it. Aye we were held up by a shooting party over horsehead one time. It’s not just cyclists but all road users. Well obviously not motorcyclists🏍🏍🏍.

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[Pelirocco]

You ought to drive an HGV in London these days
Cameras ,bleepers ,stickers ,special mirrors

 

[AXO66]

Driving along. Long line of lady cyclists , travelling quickly, very well spaced so i could overtake one safely, pull in until the next opportunity came to overtake pull in etc. So i was travelling between bikes , at the same speed. Then I had to turn Left ! Right angle turn into a lane.

Not happy bunnies at all . Car’s roof was open, so i could hear. I did indicate well in advanced of manoeuvre and checked all mirrors.

 

[Langtoftlad]

It used to amuse me when idiot car drivers would shout similar things at me when I was commuting on my bike to work. At home I had a motorhome (£160 VED), a large-ish car (£240) and Mrs Despicable had a car (£150-ish). Oh, and at work the company was paying over £1200 VED for the truck unit I drove.

Those charges are for the vehicles concerned... I'm not aware that any VED comes with a bicycle allowance...

 

[Despicable]

Those charges are for the vehicles concerned... I'm not aware that any VED comes with a bicycle allowance...

Yes, you're right, and a road bike probably imposes more ground-pressure on the road than a lot of road vehicles, however, it's not feasible to impose VED on bikes; they're struggling to collect it from a lot of car owners. Anyway, why don't you complain about the electric car ahead of you? They pay the same VED as I do for my bike.
If all car-owning cyclists decided to use their vehicles instead of cycling, the road congestion and contamination would increase significantly. Cycling in traffic is no picnic where verbal abuse, spitting and lit dog-ends are frequently thrown at cyclists. I've been in a car when a fellow passenger has shown anger at a motorcyclist weaving through a traffic jam on a motorway; it's illogical.

 

[knokinonabit]

It’s a shame a sensible thread has been hijacked into a cyclist argument.

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[jongood]

So said cyclist nips up the inside, and lorry squashes him as he turns right (in France) Does the displaying of the Angles Mort, the right indicator flashing, definitely abdicate the lorry driver from liability. You bet your graffiti it doesn't. All a bloody waste of time. But explaining that view to a Gendarme would be pointless.

Tbf its not all cyclists, its mostly the lycra squad, the ones that ride on the road when there are perfectly good cycle paths. When I'm in the lorriy I make so many allowances for cyclists and some of them still do unbelievably stupid things, Ive even had one that lodged himself between the unit and the trailer when I was stationery.

You now have to have low level cameras to go into london just for cyclists, it will be really interesting to see if it makes a difference. I'm betting it doesnt and neither will these stickers. Number plates are whats needed so the rogues can be identified and prosecuted. Its the only solution.

 

[62272]

What if you have 360° cameras?
No blind spots so no stickers required???

Richard.

Below quote (translated) from the French security information on this legislation. The ’in all circumstances’ is a catch all phrase, regardless of cameras and blind spot mirrors. This is reiterated in French press articles on the subject;

This sign must be visible on the sides as well as at the rear of the vehicle, in all circumstances. In general, it must be placed between 0.90m and 1.50m from the ground, except in special cases.
It must also be affixed in such a way that it cannot obstruct the visibility of the vehicle's regulatory plates and inscriptions, the visibility of the various lights and signaling devices, as well as the driver's field of vision.

 

[Backdraft]

Has anyone seen stickers on a Transit/Ducato type van yet?
Just mentally trying to imagine a piece of A4 stuck onto a Transit 0-1m from the front and 0.9-1.5m from the ground. Will that not be above the wheelarch and extending onto the bonnet?

 

[62272]

Has anyone seen stickers on a Transit/Ducato type van yet?
Just mentally trying to imagine a piece of A4 stuck onto a Transit 0-1m from the front and 0.9-1.5m from the ground. Will that not be above the wheelarch and extending onto the bonnet?

The only place I can think of putting it (on a Ducato), would be on the lower door panels as it would not comfortably fit on the wings owing to the contours. I suspect that the French police would not be bothered so long as you have done your best to comply. French articles on this state That the measurement and locations are the ideal if it is possible, but as close to, dependant on obscuring other legal requirements (such as reflectors or repeater lighting), is acceptable to accommodate the particularities of each vehicle.

 

[62272]

Just a thought, could a ‘second skin’ plastic film with low adhesive impact be applied to the area you wish to place the sticker, and then apply the sticker. This could easily be removed on return to the UK with minimal impact to the MH paintwork? Has anyone any experience in using such a film?

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[Backdraft]

The only place I can think of putting it (on a Ducato), would be on the lower door panels as it would not comfortably fit on the wings owing to the contours. I suspect that the French police would not be bothered so long as you have done your best to comply. French articles on this state That the measurement and locations are the ideal if it is possible, but as close to, dependant on obscuring other legal requirements (such as reflectors or repeater lighting), is acceptable to accommodate the particularities of each vehicle.

I totally agree, far easier to argue about it being in the wrong place than not being there at all. Just think that they were really thinking of >7.5t than pannel vans when they came up with the idea.

 

[glenn2926]

Does anyone think the French will take much notice of motorhomes re these stickers? Are they really aimed at commercial vehicles?
I don’t have stickers on any of my vehicles as I don’t like them. I even remove the garage stickers that are usually in the back window. I will even remove the GB sticker on arrival back home and buy another next time we go abroad.

 

[minesapint]

i've not personally read anything about this apart from FB posts and on here so bowing down to everyone who has, but does this actually apply to us in the UK.

If so i'll go and order some but tbh I don't want any stickers on my van at all if I can possibly help it especially at these sizes

and when you think about it if they can see the stickers surely they can see the bloody motorhome they are stuck on

If cyclists are dumb enough to go up the inside of a van or lorry on a turn, no stupid stickers will stop them. They are rule unto themselves.

 

[tribalbrit]

If, as I do you drive a 6.5 metre MH with a weight limit of 4250 kg how is any different to driving a 6.5 metre 3500 kg one, as I used to own. I can see just as much behind and down the sides in either.
If either were to run over a cyclists head, god forbid the outcome would be the same.
Surely it would make sense to have the new rules applied to the length rather than the weight of a vehicle. Not that French rules usually make much sense. Why at the front of a vehicle? By the time the cyclist can read said sign they are past the point of no return anyway.

 

[EzeeRider]

There are plenty of posts on this subject, I just picked this one to post on because it is fairly recent.

Interesting comment from the FICC: (Fédération Internationale de Camping, Caravanning et Autocaravaning)
"Fines for missing plaques(stickers)in France.
Since1 January this year, goods vehicles with a maximum weight of over 3,500 kgs must displaystickers on either side of the cab and on the right hand side of the vehicle’s tail. These stickers are25x17cms and if they are missing you are subject to a fine of 135€. Several organisations, including FFCC (France) have protested against this measure. NKC (Netherlands) is against the introduction of these stickers because their function is far from clear, they are impracticable and contraryto European regulations. The subject has been brought to the attentionof theEuropean Commission but to date the Commission has failed to comment."

Note they refer to goods vehicles! As far as motorhomes are concerned, perhaps in the fullness of time we will see the demise of these useless stickers.
ezee

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