LV Motorhome Insurance claim. Big problem

[jerryz]

When my MH was hit by a Renault van on M27 a few weeks ago all seemed clear

The driver of Renault admitted to me and Police that he caused the incident when he drifted into my lane and his wing mirror and then bumper made my van unstable and then go into his lane . This is in Police report ,

However a third party dash cam only shows the last part of the incident and not his intial drift into my lane or impact so his insurers are now claiming against me and LV have caved in?????

The police also saw the dash cam evidence from 3rd party and they say it does not show the start of the incident but that the Renault driver clearly admitted to drifting into my lane and causing the whole accident..

LV are obviously being lazy and say they will dump the whole thing on me and my unblemished 33 years NCD record when I am the abused party ,,m I need to fight this and will need advice on what to do now , I am very upset as it is after the accident and now to be blamed for it as well when I was not at fault is aweful.

I am now serously thinking about giving up on MH as I have not had any problems in 30 years with cars or motorcycles

How can I get LV to put this right?????

 

[stuartholmes]

I've had 2 claims in my life, both settled 100% in direction of person's that hit me.

First one was a bit like jerryz where Police attended took statements and despite the woman that hit me refusing to speak to the other driver (me) and going to hospital for her injuries, she not me was procecuted for dangerous driving as she turned into a junction direction in front of me and my old car was a build like a tank V6 Merc, so had almost 0 damage where she was effectively pancaked as my car was going 30mph when she turned in front of me from a standstill. She was claiming it was 100% me to blame as I was accellerating ... however witness (driver behind her) said she had no space and clearly hadn't clocked my car approaching. luckily the vet had a camera covering the junction and Policy took one look at the footage to look to prosecute her. Also it was a busy junction covering the doctors, vets and a school (as well as the police station ) so they had to attend to clear the route.

I knwo without the footage likely above would have gone 50/50, so purchased a camera after this as I didn't have one before.

Second one 2020, I had the camera front and rear in car. Amazon driver who I'd been following 5 miles along country roads stops middle of road, puts in reverse drives into me. I have cars behind me so can't reverse to get out his way. He claims my fault, police don't attend. Send footage to insurance (and police via their report an accident service) took 5 months, my insurance fixes my car, the other driver finally take the 100% fault when police procescute Amazon driver for driving without due care given myself and a line of traffic behind him for over 5 miles seen from my footage. Driver in question in this case also did not have a UK license, and the insurance was "via amazon"

Again in this case as a front bumper damage on mine the insurance were initially looking to settle 100% my fault as usually a bumper crash is the drivers fault for driving into back of car in front. Without my own dash cam this would have lost my NCD.

NCD saved in that case ever since we've had a camera, the £100 cost saved likely thousands in additional insurance costs over last 4 years. Doesn't help your case jerry, but not having your own (good) camera really counts against you these days in insurance claims handling. Don't save money with a cheap one as low light/bad light coverage essential. Blackvue and Nexbase are what I've had since. Should add getting one where you can get the footage off at side of road via wifi are usually best these days as you can send a Nexbase link to police from roadside too.

Oh without checking your name I just sent you a 'You're a Star' reactien because 'thumbs up' didn't feel adequate and then notice you really (kind of) are a star!!

Really important points you make, and quite unarguably clear. I hope everyeoe here follows your advice!

I'd just add dear people who've not done this already: when you get the best dashcam you can afford, make sure it's really strongly attached to the screen or bodywork AND hardwired instead of plugged into the lighter socket so it's absolutely always on and working.

 

[ianp]

Insurance is no longer fit for purpose they make the rules to suit themselves
We returned from our holiday in the Motorhome to discover that my work van ( im a sole trader) had been hit by a lorry while parked outside my house the driver had left his information with a neighbour my van was quite badly damaged I contacted my insurance company to start the process of getting my van repaired. I thought it would be quite straightforward. I asked for a hire van so that I could continue to work but was told that the third-party had not accepted liability. I thought this might be a problem until my neighbour across the road informed me that he had CCTV footage of the incident I sent this footage to my insurance company to the email, I was provided with for correspondence after a couple of weeks I phoned them to see if they had seen the footage and would they please hurry up with a hire van I need to get back to work. I was informed that they had not seen the footage because they needed to supply me with a special link to send this information to, promise to send it me immediately, it never arrived
A week later I called to find out why I’ve had no link from them and was told that the lady that I spoke to did not have the authority to send it to me, but they ensure it was sent out that day which it was. I sent on the CCTV footage and then waited for another week. I called them and ask them if they had seen the footage after a good 15 minutes of silence I was told that they had reviewed it, and it was clearly not my fault still I had no hire van. I asked if I could hire one myself and claim the money back. They advised against this. My van was eventually repaired, but I was never given a hire van so was unable to work
During all this Motorhome Insurance was due it had increased considerably due to the claim on work van, not yet been recorded as a no fault incident, my work van insurance company had the cheek to send me a renewal that had increased in cost from around £400-£1400 This was eventually resolved and the cost only increased by around £100. As you can see so far. This has cost me a considerable amount of money for something that is in the way of my own doing
I contacted some solicitors for help through my legal cover believe me this legal cover is a complete and utter waste of money. They basically told me that it is written in law that because my work can be postponed and done at a later date. I am not entitled to any kind of compensation backed up by contact with other legal parties and confirmed to be the case. The problem with people saying that just suck it up, your insurance may increase slightly continue to enjoy your motorhome. The impact of the increase in insurance becomes relevant to any other vehicles. i have my car which is an extravagance. I agree will cost considerably more to insure being the type of car that is due to this. The motorhome insurance has already gone up. The van insurance has gone up and as a name driver on my wife’s car, her insurance has gone up.
Like I said at the start we pay for insurance and expect to be covered and compensated. Think again. Insurance is no longer fit for purpose.
I’m firmly of the opinion that if your vehicle is damaged and it is less than £2500 to get it fixed it’s not worth claiming and it’s beginning to seem like even claiming for your windscreen will be recorded as a claim and affect your cost, but apparently not your no claims bonus

This gent has absolutely hit the nail on the head......! UK motor insurance is not fit for purpose. Its a money making scheme that all motorists are legally obliged into having to enter. The insurers care not a jot about what is right or wrong or who or what is to blame, their only care is maximising profit and in this they act in unison to ease life for their compatriots and themselves. Do not ever believe that they work for you. Regardless of the situation you will be held as the at fault person on the insurance register until your insurance has recovered all of its costs. Should it not then that is where you will remain regardless.
I find it unfathomable in that a product that is mandated by law, that is the need to have motor insurance, is governed by rules made by the people most likely to benefit from them. The insurance companies make the rules and you are obliged to accept them or don't drive.....
I understand its not like this everywhere. Again I understand ( though haven't checked to deeply) that in New Zealand motor insurance is administered by the state and is not operated as a commercial business. Maybe we need a few politicians to explore this concept as even if it were operated to only make a half percent profit after all costs then it still a good income for the country rather than the bunch of shits that feed off the motorist now!

 

[FrankNicklin]

This gent has absolutely hit the nail on the head......! UK motor insurance is not fit for purpose. Its a money making scheme that all motorists are legally obliged into having to enter. The insurers care not a jot about what is right or wrong or who or what is to blame, their only care is maximising profit and in this they act in unison to ease life for their compatriots and themselves. Do not ever believe that they work for you. Regardless of the situation you will be held as the at fault person on the insurance register until your insurance has recovered all of its costs. Should it not then that is where you will remain regardless.
I find it unfathomable in that a product that is mandated by law, that is the need to have motor insurance, is governed by rules made by the people most likely to benefit from them. The insurance companies make the rules and you are obliged to accept them or don't drive.....
I understand its not like this everywhere. Again I understand ( though haven't checked to deeply) that in New Zealand motor insurance is administered by the state and is not operated as a commercial business. Maybe we need a few politicians to explore this concept as even if it were operated to only make a half percent profit after all costs then it still a good income for the country rather than the bunch of shits that feed off the motorist now!

In Germany as far as I understand the vehicle is insured and not the driver so anyone with a valid license can drive it.

 

[jerryz]

Thanks for the update. A couple of things not that clear. You said the dashcam captured the audio, was it your dashcam?
You said you were in the middle lane, which lane was the vehicle that hit you? You said earlier your nose was in front of there's as you were passing them but then said you were wobbling and trying to avoid the car in the inside lane. Had you undertook the Renault, was it in the outside lane?
Was this at roadworks with narrow lanes?

I dont have a dash cam it was in a 3rd party van travelling in land behind the van that hit me ,, i was in middle lane there was and arctic on inside lane , the lanes were narrow and the van that hit me was overtaking me , when he hit me with such force that my van began to wobble and he braked

Thanks for the update. A couple of things not that clear. You said the dashcam captured the audio, was it your dashcam?
You said you were in the middle lane, which lane was the vehicle that hit you? You said earlier your nose was in front of there's as you were passing them but then said you were wobbling and trying to avoid the car in the inside lane. Had you undertook the Renault, was it in the outside lane?
Was this at roadworks with narrow lanes?

The dash cam footage was from a 3rd party van following the renault van that hit me it was their audio feed..he was overtaking me outside lane in area of 50mph roadworks normal lanes but they did narrow later into the 40 zone a truck was on inside lane I was in middle lane , when the overtaking renault hit me it was so hard I almost lost control and then the renault braked sharply but my van was bounced into his lane as i was unstable the coming together was much worse police officers comment in statement it was like a hard stop manouvere by a police vehicle and that the renault was the cause as his hit was on my rear offside quarter none of it was intentionable , i could have been almost completely sideways if I had not recovered and then my van might have flipped over , but due to the sunlight the video is blurred

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[jerryz]

here in Thailand it is vehicle that is insured not drivers

 

[stuartholmes]

I dont have a dash cam it was in a 3rd party van travelling in land behind the van that hit me ,, i was in middle lane there was and arctic on inside lane , the lanes were narrow and the van that hit me was overtaking me , when he hit me with such force that my van began to wobble and he braked

The dash cam footage was from a 3rd party van following the renault van that hit me it was their audio feed..he was overtaking me outside lane in area of 50mph roadworks normal lanes but they did narrow later into the 40 zone a truck was on inside lane I was in middle lane , when the overtaking renault hit me it was so hard I almost lost control and then the renault braked sharply but my van was bounced into his lane as i was unstable the coming together was much worse police officers comment in statement it was like a hard stop manouvere by a police vehicle and that the renault was the cause as his hit was on my rear offside quarter none of it was intentionable , i could have been almost completely sideways if I had not recovered and then my van might have flipped over , but due to the sunlight the video is blurred

And do you possess a copy of the video, imperfect or not?

 

[stuartholmes]

When I was a lad of 17 had an accident my fault. Car was written off. Long story I was driving a mini (when minis were minis) and hit a rover 90 (tank) I lost control spinning down main road on ice.
Back of mini hit front of rover, back seat of mini crushed up against front seats. Rover slight dent offside wing
Insurance company went bust (Craven insurance 1966) I ended up paying for damage for the next 5 years to finance co.
Not their fault insurance went bust.
Must have been mine
I’ve always thought insurance companies are a bunch of sh’t and over the last 60 years nothing has made me change my mind.
But the thing to remember I walked away from that crash without a scratch .
Also had a road rage incident idiot got out of a bus carrying handicapped kids and smashed a pole over the bonnet of my first and only new car and drove off. I chased him into an estate and blocked the road . He went up the pavement and hit my car again. Police turned up almost immediate people on main road had phoned. Police . Sergeant stepped into road and tried hands up to stop the driver he just drove past. All I heard was I’ll have him he said to the other officer and jumped into his car.
Outcome I lost my ncd because I’d had 2 accidents and pay 2 excesses.
As I said long story and that was only half of the details.
SH’T HAPPENS
VERY VERY LUCKY
NO INJURIES EITHER TIME

As wife said could have hit you not the car

Trouble is, insurance is to compensate it's not suing the other party to recover all losses - and (in UK anyway) it's run as commercial enterpries, not social service.

 

[jerryz]

And do you possess a copy of the video, imperfect or not?

No only a link to the independent assessor for legal reasons as it might be used in court if we go that far Im not allowed to share it at present

 

[plumbob]

Trouble is, insurance is to compensate it's not suing the other party to recover all losses - and (in UK anyway) it's run as commercial enterpries, not social service.

Well if you think it’s okay for somebody to commit criminal damage, leave the scene of 2 accidents refuse to stop for a police sergeant on a highway while driving a small bus full of children. Think I’m wasting my time replying to the likes of you
Plumbob
Tom

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[Pausim]

Well if you think it’s okay for somebody to commit criminal damage, leave the scene of 2 accidents refuse to stop for a police sergeant on a highway while driving a small bus full of children. Think I’m wasting my time replying to the likes of you
Plumbob
Tom

That sounds like a criminal matter for the Police to pursue, the insurance aspects are limited to compensating peoples losses. I don’t think I would look to an insurance company to dispense justice, most of them are simply financial institutions concerned about profits and shareholders. I expect some of my pension is paid from their profits. There are still one or two mutual insurance companies and where I can I prefer to insure with them.

 

[Markman]

And this has not changed in 2023/4.
BUT we are ALL paying for this "rip off Britain"
attitude, to the money pit called the
"British Motoring Public"

Are you quoting what your father said 40 years ago?

 

[plumbob]

That sounds like a criminal matter for the Police to pursue, the insurance aspects are limited to compensating peoples losses. I don’t think I would look to an insurance company to dispense justice, most of them are simply financial institutions concerned about profits and shareholders. I expect some of my pension is paid from their profits. There are still one or two mutual insurance companies and where I can I prefer to insure with them.

It was a criminal offence and investigation by our fantastic police force at the time 2003 in Abergavenny on the bypass numerous people phoned the police as he was holding up the traffic. they thought a manic was on the loose I was taking my son to Coventry university spoke to sergeant we’ll have him. Again this useless statement. Asked can you call in on way home from Coventry to make statements. Stopped on return journey spent hours making statements.Heard nothing for weeks found out given a caution by police. All I got from insurance you moved vehicle so 2 accidents equals 2claims. Police and insurance are as stated a shower of sh!t
Walked away from it to keep my sanity
Tom

 

[Camdoon]

It was a criminal offence and investigation by our fantastic police force at the time 2003 in Abergavenny on the bypass numerous people phoned the police as he was holding up the traffic. they thought a manic was on the loose I was taking my son to Coventry university spoke to sergeant we’ll have him. Again this useless statement. Asked can you call in on way home from Coventry to make statements. Stopped on return journey spent hours making statements.Heard nothing for weeks found out given a caution by police. All I got from insurance you moved vehicle so 2 accidents equals 2claims. Police and insurance are as stated a shower of sh!t
Walked away from it to keep my sanity
Tom

My son had our car clipped as he moved off from a T junction by someone running the lights. The other driver in traffic was stopped by a Police Car which was initially behind my son. Told my son to move our car and that left no witnesses. Our faith in the Police diminished sharply thereafter as despite sitting waiting for the lights would not be witnesses. THe other driver had blown positive then been cleared later at the station and the Police did nothing thereafter.

 

[Pausim]

Walked away from it to keep my sanity

That seems the sensible thing to do but very frustrating.

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[stuartholmes]

No only a link to the independent assessor for legal reasons as it might be used in court if we go that far Im not allowed to share it at present

I would try to make a copy, even if just by recording with your phone camera while it plays on your computer. Not sharing doesn't stop you copying, just in case you lose access to their copy.

 

[stuartholmes]

Well if you think it’s okay for somebody to commit criminal damage, leave the scene of 2 accidents refuse to stop for a police sergeant on a highway while driving a small bus full of children. Think I’m wasting my time replying to the likes of you
Plumbob
Tom

It doesn't really matter because you've already jumped to your inaccurate & inappropriate conclusion but, just for the record, I'm curious to know what I wrote that could be construed as indicating I think that behviour is ok when actually I think the exact opposite and am no fan of commercial decisions interfering with what's 'right and fair'.

Politeness is seldom a waste of time, rudeness often is.

 

[Ziggy123]

OK update

Have received report from Independent legal advisor and its not looking good ,,
He has reviewed the Video evidence ,, been in contact with all witnesses and spoken with police and National Highways .

Basicly the video dash cam is very poor due to sunlight as all vehicles involved were traveling east in early morning . Its very difficult to see which lane anyone is in we were all traveling at 50 mph in the roadworks area
The audio tells of the initial hit by Renault on my van , but cant tell where it happened in which lane , my losing control is not clear after the hit but just as we come to an incline , there is shadow from sun and my vehicle is now wobbling and drifting into his lane....
National highways video does show other vehicle hitting me first but again not clear what the lanes situation is ,but it does show my vehicle being bumped violently left and then swerving back to right to avoid hitting vehicle in my inside as im in middle lane, and then going a bit wobbly as \i fight for control and thats when we hit each other again but now in his lane , Police will not be prosecuting anyone , they confirm that other driver admitted being out of his lane, and causing the accident and thats their statement of their investigation after reveiwing all evidence that I am not at fault ,also another driver has come forward who saw the Renault out of his lane when he hit me ,but thats just verbal statement but that seems not to count according to insurance companies .

Adviser says its at worst a 50-50 by the evidence as its is and knows the insurance companies will take the path of easy resolution even though its clear to him, the police and ALL witnesses that I did not cause the accident. However what the insurers do is not always in the victims interest they are putting it 100% on me saying that I deliberately rammed the Renault.

I have pointed out that If I had been deemed to have deliberately rammed another vehicle the Police would be prosecuting me !!!!!!!

Me going to hospital for shock and my van being towed is irrelevant apparently
.

I could fight this in court , to ensure 50-50 but again its a gamble and in my current health and state of mind not a good idea ?

My van will be repaired sometime in New year ??? and it looks like I lose my unblemished Accident record as i will be deemed at fault and lose NCD and will get a big premium rise in August and a rise in my minimal insurance for my motorcycles ..

i have lost all confidence in the insurers ,and the way my cae has been handled , and as i mentioned before my personal confidence when driving 4 wheeled vehicles is now nil I cant get behind the wheel so am totally reliant on my motorcycles .. thats weird as I should feel safer in a car but Im getting freaked by passing vehicle s even as a passenger .

My mental health has nosedived , and is now affecting my other health issues .and im not nice to hang out with ..

You really should speak to your doctor and refer yourself for post traumatic stress counselling. I had this after our accident and I wasnt sure it would do anything but it did at least make me understand and appreciate why it was happening and I am sure it did help. Mine was complicated due to it bringing back memories of losing my dad in an accident many years ago but I probably needed to process this too. I am a logical person so it kind of helped put it in prospective. I know how much it hurts to let them get away with it, you have the same sense of injustice as I do but you have to think is it really worth the stress of going through it all and it will take years...we are almost 3 years and counting...I know its loss of money too but if you can try to think the most important thing is you here and still with us it really does help.

 

[stuartholmes]

OK update

Have received report from Independent legal advisor and its not looking good ,,
He has reviewed the Video evidence ,, been in contact with all witnesses and spoken with police and National Highways .

Basicly the video dash cam is very poor due to sunlight as all vehicles involved were traveling east in early morning . Its very difficult to see which lane anyone is in we were all traveling at 50 mph in the roadworks area
The audio tells of the initial hit by Renault on my van , but cant tell where it happened in which lane , my losing control is not clear after the hit but just as we come to an incline , there is shadow from sun and my vehicle is now wobbling and drifting into his lane....
National highways video does show other vehicle hitting me first but again not clear what the lanes situation is ,but it does show my vehicle being bumped violently left and then swerving back to right to avoid hitting vehicle in my inside as im in middle lane, and then going a bit wobbly as \i fight for control and thats when we hit each other again but now in his lane , Police will not be prosecuting anyone , they confirm that other driver admitted being out of his lane, and causing the accident and thats their statement of their investigation after reveiwing all evidence that I am not at fault ,also another driver has come forward who saw the Renault out of his lane when he hit me ,but thats just verbal statement but that seems not to count according to insurance companies .

Adviser says its at worst a 50-50 by the evidence as its is and knows the insurance companies will take the path of easy resolution even though its clear to him, the police and ALL witnesses that I did not cause the accident. However what the insurers do is not always in the victims interest they are putting it 100% on me saying that I deliberately rammed the Renault.

I have pointed out that If I had been deemed to have deliberately rammed another vehicle the Police would be prosecuting me !!!!!!!

Me going to hospital for shock and my van being towed is irrelevant apparently
.

I could fight this in court , to ensure 50-50 but again its a gamble and in my current health and state of mind not a good idea ?

My van will be repaired sometime in New year ??? and it looks like I lose my unblemished Accident record as i will be deemed at fault and lose NCD and will get a big premium rise in August and a rise in my minimal insurance for my motorcycles ..

i have lost all confidence in the insurers ,and the way my cae has been handled , and as i mentioned before my personal confidence when driving 4 wheeled vehicles is now nil I cant get behind the wheel so am totally reliant on my motorcycles .. thats weird as I should feel safer in a car but Im getting freaked by passing vehicle s even as a passenger .

My mental health has nosedived , and is now affecting my other health issues .and im not nice to hang out with ..

Thanks for the update, it's clearly pretty awful & I def agree with the suggestion about seeing your GP for PTSD support but also please take this whole problem to the insurance ombudsman: https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/complaints-can-help/insurance/motor-insurance
They are very sensitive to people in your sort of situation and not part of 'the insurance industry' so whatever your other experiences are you should not expect them to be the same, they will be on your side.
Do you have a good friend to support you through this? It's not really hard but you could do with somebody literally at your side.
I can see the short-term appeal of just 'walking away' but you don't need to give them the victory.

 

[georgio]

Good luck anyway