Lithium upgrade

[bigtwin]

Thanks Ian I only occasionally off grid, it’s more of a weight issue.

Interesting take on resolving a weight issue!

It’d be cheaper to uprate the van (a couple of hundred quid) that’d buy you a few hundred kilos extra payload rather than a measly 7Kg (in Blofeld ’s example).

Ian

 

[Thorntreemick]

Thorntreemick, the above is a really pertinent question. Why do you think that you need lithium?

Ian

I know you said you would prefer somewhere local, but that doesn't always translate to somewhere good.

Vanbitz have a very good reputation ( though I have never used them) but importantly experience of doing what you want. Is it worth contacting them for a quote? They also offer overnight so why not go on a mini break !!

I'm sure there are other just as competent businesses in between you and them, but concentrate on quality not the width lol

Thanks MisterB overnight stay a good idea.

 

[PaulandChrissy]

The only downside to Lithium seems to be cost. Especially if they have built in heaters. (Cost of buying and maybe system upgrades.) Having an off switch on your mains charger, to avoid unwanted charging, is useful if you want to, say, use hookup on your drive while leaving the battery at ”storage level”

That’s right. Cost is the only downside, but they really are getting much cheaper. Fogstar even with its heater pads are still about the best price around. I know going back to lead acid after experiencing lithium will never happen. For off grid users like us it’s well worth the extra.

 

[TheTwoOfUs]

Interesting take on resolving a weight issue!

It’d be cheaper to uprate the van (a couple of hundred quid) that’d buy you a few hundred kilos extra payload rather than a measly 7Kg (in Blofeld ’s example).

Ian

Not everyone has or can have a suitable licence to do this though.

 

[bigtwin]

Not everyone has or can have a suitable licence to do this though.

Indeed, but noting that his profile shows that he has an A Class I took a calculated gamble in not mentioning that aspect. I’ll be less economical with my usage of letters in future posts.

Ian

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[headlight]

That’s right. Cost is the only downside, but they really are getting much cheaper. Fogstar even with its heater pads are still about the best price around. I know going back to lead acid after experiencing lithium will never happen. For off grid users like us it’s well worth the extra.

It all depends how much electric you use.
I came back yesterday from 6 days on a site with no hook up, my shunt says the most I used in a day was 30 amps.
Lead acids suit my motorhome use fine.

 

[PaulandChrissy]

It all depends how much electric you use.
I came back yesterday from 6 days on a site with no hook up, my shunt says the most I used in a day was 30 amps.
Lead acids suit my motorhome use fine.

Exactly right. Everyones needs are different. You use 30amp/day, I use nearer 120amp/day. Your battery size and type needs to be tailored to your use. There is no fixed size/type.

 

[headlight]

Exactly right. Everyones needs are different. You use 30amp/day, I use nearer 120amp/day. Your battery size and type needs to be tailored to your use. There is no fixed size/type.

Yes if I was a heavy electric user I would swap to lithium as my MPPT has a lithium profile and so does my B2B so it would be straight forward but for my usage it doesn't make sense financially.

 

[Pausim]

Interesting take on resolving a weight issue!

It’d be cheaper to uprate the van (a couple of hundred quid) that’d buy you a few hundred kilos extra payload rather than a measly 7Kg (in Blofeld ’s example).

Ian

I think you can double that weight saving. A good quality 80Ah gel leisure battery weighs in at 28kg. My Relion 100Ah LiFePO4 weighs in at 13.5kg. You might get an engine battery at 7kg more than an Li but that is not a comparable product.

 

[bigtwin]

I think you can double that weight saving. A good quality 80Ah gel leisure battery weighs in at 28kg. My Relion 100Ah LiFePO4 weighs in at 13.5kg. You might get an engine battery at 7kg more than an Li but that is not a comparable product.

Ok, a 14.5Kg payload increase for £500 - £1000 versus a few hundred Kgs from up-plating for a couple of hundred quid.

The 7Kg saving was Blofeld ‘s experience but, in either case, it’s not a great strategy for increasing payload.

Ian

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[cyberyacht]

As the advert says "Every little helps"

 

[Pausim]

Ok, a 14.5Kg payload increase for £500 - £1000 versus a few hundred Kgs from up-plating for a couple of hundred quid.

The 7Kg saving was Blofeld ‘s experience but, in either case, it’s not a great strategy for increasing payload.

Ian

Could be helpful if you are struggling to keep a C1 license and need to keep below 3500kg. The saving of 14.5kg I quoted is exactly what I saved by swapping the 28kg gel supplied with my Carthago for a 13.5kg LiFePO4 with a better capacity.

 

[Hayesdec]

I own a 2021 Bailey Autograph and would like to upgrade to lithium. Bailey advised it was not possible, a local service centre advised against it .please advise pros and cons , I’m in no way an expert on electric problems. I live in the north east , does anyone know if a local fitting service in my area?

I went to Oaktree Motorhome’s in Nottingham
They asked me lots of questions about what I wanted from the batteries I wanted to change our electric bikes. So they worked out our needs. Booked it up. They let us stay overnight in the yard. And it was all fitted the next day. They gave us a hire car no charge. By 4 pm it was all done. I’m very happy with the batteries we can now park off grid for as long as we have sunny days or if we drive they charge much quicker. I’m not sure if the batteries like being on electricity all day as they don’t like being over charged but winter we leave it plugged in on the drive as I leave the heating on but summer unplugged. I did have another solar panel fitted. Now 350w we don’t go abroad so rely on nice days. I do have a small generator which I have used once after 7 days off grid. Our routine is wake up that’s important. Put the heating on. Gas heater using fan make tea on gas charge phones iPads. Take dogs for a walk watch tv. Go out on our bikes. Come home beer wine dinner in the van heating if it’s cold tv on till about 10.30. Just a 12v 22inch sharp tv. We have a mobile router on all day and cameras inside and outside van. Batteries are great. Perfect for our needs. Also charge bikes but only when we have lots of sun. Also have a 500 lithium pack I use if it’s really sunny I put that on charge to store the power then charge one bike with that. Hope this helps

 

[peterc10]

Could be helpful if you are struggling to keep a C1 license and need to keep below 3500kg. The saving of 14.5kg I quoted is exactly what I saved by swapping the 28kg gel supplied with my Carthago for a 13.5kg LiFePO4 with a better capacity.

I swapped 2 x 85Ah AGMs weighing 26kg each for 2 x 120Ah LiFePo4 batteries weighing 13.5kg each. Easy fit because the new batteries were exactly the same size and pole alignment as the old ones.

The result is two and a half times more usable stored energy with a payload saving of 25kg. I changed them because of the increase of storable energy along with higher charge and discharge rates, but the payload reduction was certainly a welcome bonus.

 

[MisterB]

I went to Oaktree Motorhome’s in Nottingham
They asked me lots of questions about what I wanted from the batteries I wanted to change our electric bikes. So they worked out our needs. Booked it up. They let us stay overnight in the yard. And it was all fitted the next day. They gave us a hire car no charge. By 4 pm it was all done. I’m very happy with the batteries we can now park off grid for as long as we have sunny days or if we drive they charge much quicker. I’m not sure if the batteries like being on electricity all day as they don’t like being over charged but winter we leave it plugged in on the drive as I leave the heating on but summer unplugged. I did have another solar panel fitted. Now 350w we don’t go abroad so rely on nice days. I do have a small generator which I have used once after 7 days off grid. Our routine is wake up that’s important. Put the heating on. Gas heater using fan make tea on gas charge phones iPads. Take dogs for a walk watch tv. Go out on our bikes. Come home beer wine dinner in the van heating if it’s cold tv on till about 10.30. Just a 12v 22inch sharp tv. We have a mobile router on all day and cameras inside and outside van. Batteries are great. Perfect for our needs. Also charge bikes but only when we have lots of sun. Also have a 500 lithium pack I use if it’s really sunny I put that on charge to store the power then charge one bike with that. Hope this helps

Have you considered an inverter so you can use an electric kettle first thing in the morning? So much easier than gas!

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[Ingwe]

I note the reference to Oaktree in Nottingham. They fitted our lithium batteries and other gear but, when I was looking at their site the other day, there is no mention of their service to supply and fit lithium gear. Anyone know whether they have stopped this service.
If you look up Ecotree lithium batteries, I was unable to see Oaktree listed as a supplier.

 

[Hayesdec]

Have you considered an inverter so you can use an electric kettle first thing in the morning? So much easier than gas!

Hi Mister B
We do have an inverter. But using the gas helps warm the van up as well as the heating.
Doesn’t take long to boil a kettle. We do have refillable gas as well.
Richard & Janet

 

[MisterB]

Hi Mister B
We do have an inverter. But using the gas helps warm the van up as well as the heating.
Doesn’t take long to boil a kettle. We do have refillable gas as well.
Richard & Janet

lol, its the getting out of bed to turn the gas off that gets me LOL, but your point re also heating the van a bit makes absolute sense !!

but the more i think about it, an old style electric teasmaid (and no i dont mean one in a victorian chambermaids outfit !), set to come on in the morning and wake us up with a nicely boiled kettle of water sounds perfect !

 

[AshVanBitz]

How did/do you sort out the the split charge relay - as it's built in to the PDU - as I'm struggling to sort this last bit out.

Also what are the consequences of not disabling it ?

Every motorhome converter use a different method when they install the split charge. Sometimes it is a simple case of disconnecting a feed or removing a fuse but on other occasions the D+ feed needs to be rewired to allow the fridge (for example) to switch over automatically when the engine is started. The Baileys from memory need to be rewired so the feed comes from the leisure battery (instead of the engine) but don’t hold me to this. My guys in the workshop are the brains of the operation and they have done extensive research over the years to make sure this type of installation is carried out correctly.
If you need more information please give the office a call next week. I can speak with the guys who can give me the correct information (if I have got it wrong that is!)

 

[The Artilleryman]

AshVanBitz Thank you, yes it is just remove a fuse, but what this does, does vary between Bailey MH's.
I believe this may be to do with whether a smart alternator is fitted or not.

On our 68-2 removing the midi fuse in the green cable, just stops feed back and everything else is as designed.
On CraftyPete's 69-2 it allows the hab. lights etc. to work with the engine running.

The other way is to use a relay in the starter battery feed from the from the B pillar (either green or red heavy cable), but care must be taken as to where this is, as you may disable the D+ control (as on Peugeot/Fiat it works as, it is grounded when engine running, hence using a CBE SRX250, which has a live feed from the B pillar starter battery cable) and cutting the cable to early you will loose this feed.

Also anybody working on these electrics is advised to check the connections as there have been reports of p*** poor crimping in these connecters - me for one and another report on FB (within days of each other) of the same connecter failing, usually causing intermittent faults.

One last thing what is your standard way of replacing the BCA PS 306 dual outlet psu/charger, as neither CraftyPete or can find an easy way - I think we may be over thinking this - is it just a case of fit an IP22 wired to the battery and disconnect the kettle lead from the PS 306.

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