Lithium upgrade

[Thorntreemick]

I own a 2021 Bailey Autograph and would like to upgrade to lithium. Bailey advised it was not possible, a local service centre advised against it .please advise pros and cons , I’m in no way an expert on electric problems. I live in the north east , does anyone know if a local fitting service in my area?

 

[bigtwin]

Bailey advised it was not possible,

Anything is possible, it’s the extent of the modifications required that’s variable and whether or not that’s within your budget constraints.

a local service centre advised against it

Don’t go back there; they don’t know what they’re talking about.

The installation of LiFePO4 batteries is a game changer but to capitalise on what they offer you really need to be someone who off-grids (and probably uses an inverter) a lot.

Ian

 

[Gaston aires]

As above. Going solar/gel/lithium is a massive game changer. Like everything it’s what you want from it.
Get someone who knows what they are talking about.
Phil

 

[Swifter]

Bailey advised it’s not possible? What an absurd statement to make !

 

[JJ]

May I ask why you want to "upgrade" to lithium?

JJ

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[Just smiffy]

Are Bailey saying that two years ago they made motorhomes that were not suitable for lithium batteries upgrade….

Now there’s a forward thinking company..

 

[Andy MacD]

When I was considering it I emailed Fogstar with details of my solar, charger etc which they confirmed would work with their batteries. From there you have assurance that it would work and the battery covered by their warranty. I found them very helpful and my battery is great. No regrets at all.

 

[Ingwe]

We’ve had two 110Ah lithium batteries fitted to our 2012 Bailey 620. At the same time, had a MPPT solar controller, a Victron IP22 mains charger ((which fitted in exactly where the van’s fitted mains charger was), a Victron DC-DC charger and a Victron shunt fitted all without problem.
Am happy to give further details if you message me.
We’re very happy with the lithium set up to our Bailey.

 

[Ava the Adria]

For us, the Pro’s over the (Adria fitted) lead acid batteries - lithium accept higher charge amps & charge up faster on solar, DC to DC and mains charger. Will accept higher discharge rate, so inverter can be larger or run for longer. Can be discharged to a lower state of charge without harm, giving more (almost twice) the effective capacity of the same amp hour lead acid and hence longer “off grid”. Half the weight so frees up payload.
Cons - the initial cost to purchase (bought two Relion RB100). We had to add a new mains charger (bought Victron IP22) and stop using the standard van OEM one (Nordelletronica) as the charge profile was wrong and didn’t make the most of the lithiums extra capacity. This just plugged in at the side of the original. Had to fit a DC to DC charger which involved re-wiring the 12V charging circuit and fitting a smart sensing DC to DC one (we went Votronic 30A). Can’t charge lithium if their temp is below freezing - ours are under a seat so are at room temp all the time the van is occupied. (We already had (Votronic) MPPT for the solar but you may need to upgrade to MPPT if you don’t already have one).
Had fun & games working out the wiring diagram, but Votronic had one suiting our setup which we followed and it all works well for our needs. Shout out to John at Derby Auto Electrical who understood exactly what we needed to do!
We spent the best part of a year living in the van touring Europe and then the uk - after upgrading, the benefits were immediately apparent and well worth doing.

 

[Thorntreemick]

For us, the Pro’s over the (Adria fitted) lead acid batteries - lithium accept higher charge amps & charge up faster on solar, DC to DC and mains charger. Will accept higher discharge rate, so inverter can be larger or run for longer. Can be discharged to a lower state of charge without harm, giving more (almost twice) the effective capacity of the same amp hour lead acid and hence longer “off grid”. Half the weight so frees up payload.
Cons - the initial cost to purchase (bought two Relion RB100). We had to add a new mains charger (bought Victron IP22) and stop using the standard van OEM one (Nordelletronica) as the charge profile was wrong and didn’t make the most of the lithiums extra capacity. This just plugged in at the side of the original. Had to fit a DC to DC charger which involved re-wiring the 12V charging circuit and fitting a smart sensing DC to DC one (we went Votronic 30A). Can’t charge lithium if their temp is below freezing - ours are under a seat so are at room temp all the time the van is occupied. (We already had (Votronic) MPPT for the solar but you may need to upgrade to MPPT if you don’t already have one).
Had fun & games working out the wiring diagram, but Votronic had one suiting our setup which we followed and it all works well for our needs. Shout out to John at Derby Auto Electrical who understood exactly what we needed to do!
We spent the best part of a year living in the van touring Europe and then the uk - after upgrading, the benefits were immediately apparent and well worth doing.

Thank you all for your prompt replies, all the electrical info is gobbledegook to me. Therefore I need to, as they say get a man in. Can anyone recommend a company in the north east or near by.
Thanks again.

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[bigtwin]

May I ask why you want to "upgrade" to lithium?

JJ

Thorntreemick, the above is a really pertinent question. Why do you think that you need lithium?

Ian

 

[Ingwe]

This business seems to be a lithium installer. York so maybe not close enough for you?

Motosparkz: Mobile Auto Electrical (YORK)

Solutions for all things auto electrical. After all, we know what's WATT.

www.motosparkz.co.uk

 

[Bobby-gg]

Whereabouts in the North East are you?

These guy's are local to me in Ashington, although I've never used as I fitted my own solar and lifepo4 battery, they do look to be highly rated

Solar Shack

Tel. 0191 6452345 We also install solar power to catering vans, ice cream vans, exhibition vans & commercial vehicles.

solarshack.co.uk

 

[Blofeld]

Thorntreemick, the above is a really pertinent question. Why do you think that you need lithium?

Ian

I can only speak for myself but I’ve just got back from the Badminton Horse Trials where there are no EHUs. Many people were using petrol generators: there were hundreds of them, noisy, smelly and weighty. We used 20% of our battery capacity making no noise or smell. The battery we have is the same size as the old battery box we no longer need, weighs 31kg against 24kg and has six times the usable capacity. It can run much higher charge rates from the van alternator and feed far bigger loads.

That’s why I knew I needed Lithium

 

[The Artilleryman]

I own a 2021 Bailey Autograph and would like to upgrade to lithium. Bailey advised it was not possible, a local service centre advised against it .please advise pros and cons , I’m in no way an expert on electric problems. I live in the north east , does anyone know if a local fitting service in my area?

Sometime around 2021 Bailey changed to smart alternator without doing a proper upgrade to the rest of the electrics.

If you have a Truma pwm solar charger, then it's most likely non smart alternator and a reasonably simple upgrade.

If your solar charger is an mppt charger, you will need to find out if you have a B2B charger fitted, this should be aneven easier upgrade as most parts are already fitted - possibly fitting better components - as long as Bailey did not save on costs by using small size cables.

You didn't say what model you had, but be aware that the 69-2 fits most of the electrics in the bottom of the wardrobe and it's a pain to get to, I think the larger Baileys the electrics are under one of the rear seats.

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[eddie]

Van Bitz have done dozen’s of Bailey Lithium installations does answer the first question

Who ever you use ensure they have a selection of lithium batteries, lithium profiled changers, regulators, and DC - DC chargers with the necessary battery monitoring equipment and cabling

Otherwise you end up in the situation where your told that ‘this is the one I bought for you, so this is the one your having” well, when I say told, it’s the one the man fits regardless of whether there is a better or cheaper option

 

[Pausim]

Bailey
Probably an admission that their wiring and and equipment are not suitable for a modern motorhome.

Local Installer.
Might be an indication that they do not understand the changing technical requirements of a modern motorhome.

 

[Thorntreemick]

Anything is possible, it’s the extent of the modifications required that’s variable and whether or not that’s within your budget constraints.



Don’t go back there; they don’t know what they’re talking about.

The installation of LiFePO4 batteries is a game changer but to capitalise on what they offer you really need to be someone who off-grids (and probably uses an inverter) a lot.

Ian

Thanks Ian I only occasionally off grid, it’s more of a weight issue.

 

[Thorntreemick]

We’ve had two 110Ah lithium batteries fitted to our 2012 Bailey 620. At the same time, had a MPPT solar controller, a Victron IP22 mains charger ((which fitted in exactly where the van’s fitted mains charger was), a Victron DC-DC charger and a Victron shunt fitted all without problem.
Am happy to give further details if you message me.
We’re very happy with the lithium set up to our Bailey.

Thanks to you all for your input, lots to reflect on.

 

[MisterB]

I know you said you would prefer somewhere local, but that doesn't always translate to somewhere good.

Vanbitz have a very good reputation ( though I have never used them) but importantly experience of doing what you want. Is it worth contacting them for a quote? They also offer overnight so why not go on a mini break !!

I'm sure there are other just as competent businesses in between you and them, but concentrate on quality not the width lol

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[The Artilleryman]

Van Bitz have done dozen’s of Bailey Lithium installations does answer the first question

How did/do you sort out the the split charge relay - as it's built in to the PDU - as I'm struggling to sort this last bit out.

Also what are the consequences of not disabling it ?

 

[Lenny HB]

Bailey
Probably an admission that their wiring and and equipment are not suitable for a modern motorhome.

Typical of most Brit built Motorhomes.

 

[Lenny HB]

Also what are the consequences of not disabling it ?

Effectively shorts out & bypasses the B2B.

 

[eddie]

How did/do you sort out the the split charge relay - as it's built in to the PDU - as I'm struggling to sort this last bit out.

Also what are the consequences of not disabling it ?

I can’t remember what the guys in the workshop did, they do it daily and every marque is slightly different

 

[Ingwe]

How did/do you sort out the the split charge relay - as it's built in to the PDU - as I'm struggling to sort this last bit out.

Also what are the consequences of not disabling it ?

Not sure whether this thread is relevant or not.

Schaudt EBL99 - Disabling Charger Functions

Looking for a quick summary/check of the following from you Hymer/Adria EBL Geeks please :) Van with an EBL Unit (think EBL99 as it is a small 09 plate van) Fitting an Mains Charger; Trickle Charger and B2B, all of which will be external to the EBL unit What do I need to do remove all charging...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

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[slockyer]

When I was considering it I emailed Fogstar with details of my solar, charger etc which they confirmed would work with their batteries. From there you have assurance that it would work and the battery covered by their warranty. I found them very helpful and my battery is great. No regrets at all.

I went with 280ah Fogstar. Built in heater and the price, couldn't fault it and not looked back since fitting it. When freezing it uses any charge current to warm a heating pad, brilliant. I also disabled the split charge and added a b2b though

 

[The Artilleryman]

How did you disable the split charge ?

 

[Ingwe]

How did you disable the split charge ?

This thread any good?

Split charge

Hi everyone ☺ I know this subject has probably been covered before but I can't find the thread. My problem is this iwould like to fit a sterling 30 amp b2b 1230 in my van using 16m cables as recommended on many YouTube channels. What they don't show you is what do you do with the original...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[PaulandChrissy]

We've just installed 2x280ah Fogstar batteriesto go with our existing 600w solar and a Votronic 30ah B2B. (Split charger disabled). They have been superb. I’ve been running one of my 3D printers for about 18hrs / day plus all the normal draws+laptop+coffee maker. We NEVER plug in to electric. We are very power hungry and found them excellent. They keep their cell balance really well. Fogstar are definitely recommended by PaulandChrissy. I’m sure Fogstar would be able to guide you through the installation process. Our van is a 2010 AutoTrail Comanche and the existing charging systems were totally inadequate for us.
If you plug in at campsites then lithium is a waste of money to be honest.

 

[pat100]

The only downside to Lithium seems to be cost. Especially if they have built in heaters. (Cost of buying and maybe system upgrades.) Having an off switch on your mains charger, to avoid unwanted charging, is useful if you want to, say, use hookup on your drive while leaving the battery at ”storage level”

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