Lithium upgrade advice please for new Globecar

[sfrain145]

sfrain145 if I was starting again that is more or less exactly what I would do.
Looks like a cost effective solution and no struggle to find space to fit expensive blue boxes.

Thanks, we all need some reassurances as this is a minefield and I've done this so many times,

 

[MisterB]

Thanks, we all need some reassurances as this is a minefield and I've done this so many times,

You're not on your own when it comes to chopping and changing .....
I'm certainly one of those who could have saved money by doing it properly in the first place and when I say properly, I don't mean unsafely, I mean spending the money on the properly specced items, I've found that over estimating future needs is better than underestimating!!

 

[Ian_H]

I think I am going to do the following as I also have a 90l compressor fridge and on the lowest setting runs perfect sucks out about 10amps from the battery per day then obviously the little 120w panel on the roof tries to top it back up, but doesn't just do it so a drive probably will help, I have recently got the underseat 230amp fogstar battery and it is a good bit of kit but all the other bits just dont do it for me, so I am going to remove the AC charging from the EBL 211 fir a stand alone lithium chargers as big (amps) as I can get and also fit a smaller charger for the starter battery for when on Hook up or plugged in on the drive, we hardly do hook up but want the best of both worlds, then I am going to pull out the sun control 320m MPPT as it seems sub standard and also remove the B2B that they fitted as I am also not convinced, (Schaudt WA121525) going to replace it with a 50 amp Renogy DC TO DC and Mppt as ive used these before and seem to do what I want also fit a Bluetooth dongle so I can geek out on the numbers, I would do Victron but it would mean more bits and I dont really have the space, views and opinions greatly appreciated as I havent yet pulled the trigger, also will be replacing the solar panel for as big as I can fit as I dont have space for more than one really

Hi sfrain145
I follow most of your thinking there. Just one question, why do you need the most powerful charger? I would have thought most times you plug in it would be overnight, so a smaller charger would do quite a lot (eg 15A x 10 hours), and be cheaper and smaller (and possibly less noisy?)

 

[sfrain145]

Hi sfrain145
I follow most of your thinking there. Just one question, why do you need the most powerful charger? I would have thought most times you plug in it would be overnight, so a smaller charger would do quite a lot (eg 15A x 10 hours), and be cheaper and smaller (and possibly less noisy?)

Yes good point I do like that idea

 

[berni109]

I thought you meant the combined b2b & mppt controller. Can't see u needing a separate charger with plenty of solar unless u use a lot of inverter power or winter use.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Ian_H]

I thought you meant the combined b2b & mppt controller. Can't see u needing a separate charger with plenty of solar unless u use a lot of inverter power or winter use.

Just me, but not sure I'd be brave enough to lose the EHU option entirely....

 

[berni109]

300watts solar + votronic + the schaudt b2b (which incidentally I have never found - assume it must be in there somewhere). Mains power to ebl unplugged.
Never seen 100amp lithium battery below 95% but not big electric users and little early or late season camping.
Going to fit small inverter which will probably result in never seeing 95% again. But can always plug the charger back in although not the correct profile it will be enough to get some amps back in the battery and disconnect befor it goes to float.

 

[Ian_H]

300watts solar + votronic + the schaudt b2b (which incidentally I have never found - assume it must be in there somewhere). Mains power to ebl unplugged.
Never seen 100amp lithium battery below 95% but not big electric users and little early or late season camping.
Going to fit small inverter which will probably result in never seeing 95% again. But can always plug the charger back in although not the correct profile it will be enough to get some amps back in the battery and disconnect befor it goes to float.

Hi berni109
Don't know if it's relevant for you, my schaudt b2b is at the rear of the right hand seat, exposed when I remove the plastic grille.

 

[gerry mcg]

Our compressor fridge is rated at something like 2A, so in theory, it could draw 48A in 24h.
However that load is only when the compressor is running. At operating temp and the fridge set at cold level 3, the compressor is only on maybe 30% of the time, so the power drain is 30% of the 48A

In practice, the solar keeps up with the drain during the day, and recovers what was lost overnight.
When it is overcast, the battery slowly depletes, but never to the extent there is an issue

 

[Ian_H]

Our compressor fridge is rated at something like 2A, so in theory, it could draw 48A in 24h.
However that load is only when the compressor is running. At operating temp and the fridge set at cold level 3, the compressor is only on maybe 30% of the time, so the power drain is 30% of the 48A

In practice, the solar keeps up with the drain during the day, and recovers what was lost overnight.
When it is overcast, the battery slowly depletes, but never to the extent there is an issue

Hi Gerry, how much solar do you have?
Ian

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[gerry mcg]

Hi Gerry, how much solar do you have?
Ian

175W

 

[GoldenVision]

We have also just taken delivery of a shiny new Globecar Summit Shine 540, and will soon have 300W solar installed, with Victron MPPT regulator. Eventually (when finances permit) we'll upgrade to Lithium, and probably upgrade the B2B (as, I think the one installed is only 25 amp).

My question is this: will it do any harm to leave the current CB516 charger in place (which does not have a lithium setting) as we use EHU only occasionally.

 

[sfrain145]

So bit the bullet going for the new split style 220w solar panel that draws over 30% more power a renogy b2b 50amp with mppt and two lithium style mains chargers with my 230amp lithium battery this will do just fine all can be reversed for warranty if required

 

[hja]

Hi hja
That's encouraging! Would you be able to have a look at the charger and booster to see what models you have?
Ian

The booster is Schaudt Booster WA 121525. Does have a lithium setting. Instruction booklet is all in German.
Battery charger a CBE CB516-3
Neither needed changing for installing the lithium.

 

[Ian_H]

The booster is Schaudt Booster WA 121525. Does have a lithium setting. Instruction booklet is all in German.
Battery charger a CBE CB516-3
Neither needed changing for installing the lithium.

Hi hja
Thanks for looking.
It might be worth doublechecking with ecotree that the battery is OK with 15.2V applied by the charger. Doesn't sound quite right to me.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[autorouter]

The booster is Schaudt Booster WA 121525. Does have a lithium setting. Instruction booklet is all in German.

English version here

https://ocatcdn01.azureedge.net/media/documents/phaesun/products/3214/321495_BA_EN.pdf

 

[Pausim]

My question is this: will it do any harm to leave the current CB516 charger in place (which does not have a lithium setting) as we use EHU only occasionally.

I use a CB516 charger and whilst it does not optimise the charging of my LiPO battery it does not harm it. The CB516-3 is a different matter because it has a desulphation phase with a higher voltage that is too high.

 

[Tigger-Tim]

...I am going to remove the AC charging from the EBL 211 fir a stand alone lithium chargers as big (amps) as I can get and also fit a smaller charger for the starter battery for when on Hook up ...

You could wire the existing AC charger to the starter battery.

 

[Pebble99]

I fitted lithium to my Globecar and added a Votronic 50a B2B wired directly and a Votronic MPPT with lithium setting. We now never need to use hook up and if we do, the EBL99 lead acid setting will not damage the Lithium battery (according to KS energy).

 

[Ian_H]

I fitted lithium to my Globecar and added a Votronic 50a B2B wired directly and a Votronic MPPT with lithium setting. We now never need to use hook up and if we do, the EBL99 lead acid setting will not damage the Lithium battery (according to KS energy).

Hi Pebble99
Which solar charger have you got, does it also trickle charge the starter battery? How much panel wattage and what size battery? It's good to hear which setups are working well!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[GoldenVision]

I use a CB516 charger and whilst it does not optimise the charging of my LiPO battery it does not harm it. The CB516-3 is a different matter because it has a desulphation phase with a higher voltage that is too high.

Yes, I did see desulphation mentioned in the manual, but had no idea what it meant! So thanks for the clarification.

 

[Ian_H]

I use a CB516 charger and whilst it does not optimise the charging of my LiPO battery it does not harm it. The CB516-3 is a different matter because it has a desulphation phase with a higher voltage that is too high.

I had an interesting conversation about this with Rob from Oaktree this morning. He said they have fitted lithium batteries to loads of motorhomes with the CB516-3 charger and have never had a problem. I asked about the 15V desulphation and he said in practise it is not an issue.

 

[Ian_H]

But I've emailed fogstar to ask the the same question and they say that the 516-3 is not suitable! I guess if you bought from oaktree you would be OK if there was a warranty issue, but if you bought from fogstar you would have to spend some of the £400 saved on a new charger....

 

[Pausim]

I had an interesting conversation about this with Rob from Oaktree this morning. He said they have fitted lithium batteries to loads of motorhomes with the CB516-3 charger and have never had a problem. I asked about the 15V desulphation and he said in practise it is not an issue.

This raises the question of whether Oaktree understand the long term deterioration that might arise from charging above the voltage range specified by the battery manufacturer. Fogstar are the experts on their battery and the ones I would be listening to.

 

[Ian_H]

This raises the question of whether Oaktree understand the long term deterioration that might arise from charging above the voltage range specified by the battery manufacturer. Fogstar are the experts on their battery and the ones I would be listening to.

I don't know enough to have an opinion, but Rob did say the ecotree battery (which they speçified and use) has a bms that will shut down on high voltage and they never see it shut down with the CB516-3. Maybe there is something in the CB516-3 program doesn't trigger the desulphation stage on a lithium battery, after all I don't think it runs every time on a lead battery?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[berni109]

Your decision obviously but I would not be using that charger.

 

[Ian_H]

Your decision obviously but I would not be using that charger.

It would be interesting if someone with the CB516-3 and a lithium battery actually measured the battery voltage when the EHU is first switched on.

 

[Pausim]

I don't know enough to have an opinion, but Rob did say the ecotree battery (which they speçified and use) has a bms that will shut down on high voltage and they never see it shut down with the CB516-3. Maybe there is something in the CB516-3 program doesn't trigger the desulphation stage on a lithium battery, after all I don't think it runs every time on a lead battery?

The bms shut off voltage may well be higher than the 15.2V of the desulphation phase. It may also be that desulphation is rarely activated. However I would not be comfortable connecting any charger capable of supplying a voltage outside the charging range specified by the battery manufacturer. I would be looking for assurances from the battery manufacturer or the charger manufacturer rather than the installer.