Lithium on hookup?

[Ingwe]

IP22 I believe.

Blue Smart IP22 Charger - Victron Energy

The Blue Smart IP22 Charger is the new professional battery charger with built-in bluetooth. Find a Victron Energy dealer near you.

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[Ava the Adria]

i like the solution re mains charging, is it a Victron VP22 or an IP22?

Sorry, my typo; it’s an IP22 12/30 single output.

Victron Blue Smart IP22 Bluetooth Battery Charger - 12V 30A, 1 output

Victron Blue Smart IP22 6-stage battery charger 12V 30A (1 output). Multi-stage, Bluetooth-enabled charger for boats, caravans, motorhomes, campervans.

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

Used one of these to plug it into the NE237 kettle lead; Amazon product ASIN B07KQNT8FW

 

[autorouter]

Any thoughts on the wisdom, advice to only charge to 80% (particularly when the batteries are not being used for a while) to help longevity of the battery?

I got told to do this for my electric bike by the dealer I bought it from. Also, laptops sometimes have the option to limit charhing to 80%.

Also, apparently not going below 20% is good. The down side of all this is you only have 60% of capacity available which is nearly as bad as lead acid batteries!

For those big lithium battery banks that connect to solar power on a house installation, the advice is, if you keep them between 10% and 90% they will last for decades. A bit more difficult on a MH, there generally doesn't seem to be such good control, but that's the goal to aim at I think.

 

[Nedge68]

With LiFePo4 batteries, the last 20% goes in as fast as any of the other 20%s that precede it. It is only on lead acid batteries that the last 20% takes an eternity.

If you (not necessarily Ava the Adria ) are actively using the batteries then charge to 100% and utilise as much of the available capacity as you desire.

If you are not going to be actively using the batteries then it’s good advice to store them below 80%.

Ian

The BMS of our electric car definitely limits the charge current during the last 20% of charge, but I doubt you are charging at 150kW! the battery cell arrangement being different of course.

 

[Raul]

The BMS of our electric car definitely limits the charge current during the last 20% of charge, but I doubt you are charging at 150kW! the battery cell arrangement being different of course.

The reason is limiting, is to not overwhelm the top balancing. If the charge rate is to high, the balancing will not cope to distribute all the current, hence a reduction in charge rate at the top, the balancing is done more efficient, and you will have more capacity if all cells are very close to each other. The total capacity is limited by the weakest cell, and balancing them will increase the pack capacity; like filling the all up.

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[bigtwin]

The BMS of our electric car definitely limits the charge current during the last 20% of charge, but I doubt you are charging at 150kW! the battery cell arrangement being different of course.

Which type of cells are in your EV; LiFePo4?

Ian

 

[MisterB]

At a guess propably reset the output voltage from 14.4 to 14.6v so the Lithium gets a full charge, they may disable the absorption time. .
Give them a ring & ask as if changing the voltage is all they do it's not worth bothering with as 14.4v is about 98% charged.

i did ask as you suggested - this is their response. i also asked if the modification was reversable, should any future owner (or tech developments) decide to us a lead acid battery (or want the charging voltage)


Our lithium upgrade service modifies the charger module in your NE237 to produce the correct voltage (14.6V) for lithium batteries. This is a permanent (but reversible if you send the NE237 back to us) procedure meaning the unit is no longer safe to use on non-lithium batteries.
The cost for this service is £125 (exVAT and shipping) and work is subject to our normal turnaround time, which at the moment is 7-10 working days.


- so from their response, i think that the solution from Ava the Adria is a viable option to having the modification albeit the mod does work out a bit cheaper. Having to remove the unit and send it away for at least 7 days is the negative aspect to me. If they could modify it and add the higher voltage charging as an option (so you can select Gel, Lead Acid or Lithium) would however be worth me considering, Ava the Adria's option does just that, albeit at quite a high cost.

i have been looking on amazon and ali express for a suitable alternative plug in to the Victron, which is quite expensive for a battery charger !

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[Ava the Adria]

The cost for this service is £125 (exVAT and shipping) and work is subject to our normal turnaround time, which at the moment is 7-10 working days.


- so from their response, i think that the solution from Ava the Adria is a viable option to having the modification albeit the mod does work out a bit cheaper. Having to remove the unit and send it away for at least 7 days is the negative aspect to me. If they could modify it and add the higher voltage charging as an option (so you can select Gel, Lead Acid or Lithium) would however be worth me considering, Ava the Adria's option does just that, albeit at quite a high cost.

i have been looking on amazon and ali express for a suitable alternative plug in to the Victron, which is quite expensive for a battery charger !

The Victron @ £189 I paid for it may be “quite expensive for a battery charger”, but the NE237 mod is not much cheaper than the charger when you add it all up (£125 + vat + postage for quite a heavy lump won’t be much less than that). And then you pay it again to reverse it if you want to keep your batteries when you move on (assuming you can’t recover their value in the sale or px deal…)
The other thing I considered in my decision making was taking some of the load off the NE237, which I think we overheated, even only putting 40A through it from the B2B. Not using the built in charger has hopefully reduced the heat inside the box from the mains transformer etc.
Also, I went with the Victron because it’s a decent branded item that does what it says on the tin. There may well be cheaper options out there, but the danger is when you buy cheap, in my experience you often end up buying twice!
Plus, with the £7 cable adapter, we can unplug and remove the Victron and then plug the NE237 back in to reverse the operation should we wish to.
Each to their own!

 

[MisterB]

The Victron @ £189 I paid for it may be “quite expensive for a battery charger”, but the NE237 mod is not much cheaper than the charger when you add it all up (£125 + vat + postage for quite a heavy lump won’t be much less than that). And then you pay it again to reverse it if you want to keep your batteries when you move on (assuming you can’t recover their value in the sale or px deal…)
The other thing I considered in my decision making was taking some of the load off the NE237, which I think we overheated, even only putting 40A through it from the B2B. Not using the built in charger has hopefully reduced the heat inside the box from the mains transformer etc.
Also, I went with the Victron because it’s a decent branded item that does what it says on the tin. There may well be cheaper options out there, but the danger is when you buy cheap, in my experience you often end up buying twice!
Plus, with the £7 cable adapter, we can unplug and remove the Victron and then plug the NE237 back in to reverse the operation should we wish to.
Each to their own!

im not sure whether you understood that i agreed with you, for all those reasons ..... though i will be looking for a cheaper alternative if i can source one ...

 

[Nedge68]

Which type of cells are in your EV; LiFePo4?

Ian

My understanding is they are just Li-ion and there are a lot of them! They are arranged in packs/banks. The BMS does a really good job of looking after them. There is an 8 year warranty on the battery, and in general the degradation seems to be small, retaining 90% of range at 150K miles seems pretty good to me. The guarantee is that the battery will maintain 70% of its capacity after 8 years, which considering the application is pretty impressive.

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[Nedge68]

I would go for the “best” charger I could find,which appears to be Victron, they have seem to have good support and many happy users, if I had invested in Lithium batteries spending £200 to get the best charger seems a sensible investment as it could greatly increase the useful life of your batteries.

 

[Lenny HB]

i have been looking on amazon and ali express for a suitable alternative plug in to the Victron, which is quite expensive for a battery charger !

The Victron @ £189 I paid for it may be “quite expensive for a battery charger”

The Victron IP22 15 amp charger is only £110 on Amazon at the moment.

 

[MisterB]

The Victron IP22 15 amp charger is only £110 on Amazon at the moment.

but at only 15 amps, is it really worth it?

my thoughts are that,as you have pointed out the ne237 will charge up to around 98% of charge, is it really worth adding an additional charger? i do have a small bench top variable output charger that i could always set to 14.6v when at home, so it at least gets full charge at some point. my other thought is that if its not good practice to discharge the battery past around 90% of full charge, is there any massive benefit in actually worrying about charging to full capacity ALL the time and just doing it when at home, prior to use?

 

[Lenny HB]

but at only 15 amps, is it really worth it?

my thoughts are that,as you have pointed out the ne237 will charge up to around 98% of charge, is it really worth adding an additional charger? i do have a small bench top variable output charger that i could always set to 14.6v when at home, so it at least gets full charge at some point. my other thought is that if its not good practice to discharge the battery past around 90% of full charge, is there any massive benefit in actually worrying about charging to full capacity ALL the time and just doing it when at home, prior to use?

It's cheaper than having the NE237 modified and will do a better job. More than enough to charge 200 ah of lithium overnight, you don't need a fast charge rate when on EHU.

 

[The Artilleryman]

It's cheaper than having the NE237 modified and will do a better job. More than enough to charge 200 ah of lithium overnight, you don't need a fast charge rate when on EHU.

I have just ordered an IP22 15A charger, cheaper than Apuljack BCA LiFePO4 replacement charger and will do a better job.

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