Lithium Install Question

[mike_babb]

I'm not sure if I have a problem or not as I'm no electrical technician, so I was hoping for some advice from the clever people.

I recently took advantage of the Funster discount and invested in a Fogstar Seatbase 230Ah LiFePO4 battery for my 2021 Adria Compact to replace the two 100Ah gel batteries that were on the van when I purchased it used just over a year ago,

I have the following kit installed:

Victron Energy BMV712 smart shunt
Victron Energy MPPT 75/10 SmartSolar Controller & 175w Victron Blue Power 12v mono solar panel.
Nordelettronica NE350 230v charger
Non-isolated Victron Orion - Tr Smart 12/12 30 DC-DC charger that I have just installed using new 16mm cables to the starter & leisure batteries

I think that I've made all the changes to the settings that I need to. It charges on EHU and on solar, and I have set up the B2B to be activated via an ignition live feed. The query I have is that, if I was to switch off the B2B whilst the engine is running, the Fogstar app and the shunt app show that the leisure battery is drawing around 15amps, but when the B2B is running it's showing a charge of around 5 amps. This can't be right can it? Surely it shouldn't be drawing any power, apart from a small amount for say the fridge or wifi. Certainly if you then shut off the engine then the draw goes right down again.

I'm sure it's something simple and maybe the best course of action is to get it to someone to look over to make sure I've got it set up correctly, but finding someone relatively near north London who works on this kind of stuff isn't that easy. Again, any recommendations would be useful.

TIA

Mike

 

[MichaelT]

Maybe it's the fridge so try turning that off and see.

 

[Abacist]

I wonder if it’s just after you have started the engine which of course takes a chunk out of the cab battery which the leisure batteries try to replace along with the alternator or is your 15 amp draw a long term draw?

 

[Tigger-Tim]

I don't know about your van, but on mine, the fridge and leisure battery are both connected to the output of the B2B.

This means that if the B2B fails, the fridge will run from the leisure battery. Not particularly a problem, as long as I'm aware of it.

 

[Pausim]

My guess is that you have a 25A B2B and your fridge is taking most of this, leaving only 5A to charge your battery. When the B2B is not running the fridge is taking the power from the leisure battery. What B2B do you have?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[MichaelT]

My guess is that you have a 25A B2B and your fridge is taking most of this, leaving only 5A to charge your battery. When the B2B is not running the fridge is taking the power from the leisure battery. What B2B do you have?

Non-isolated Victron Orion - Tr Smart 12/12 30 DC-DC charger that I have just installed using new 16mm cables to the starter & leisure batteries

 

[Tombola]

My guess is that you have a 25A B2B and your fridge is taking most of this, leaving only 5A to charge your battery. When the B2B is not running the fridge is taking the power from the leisure battery. What B2B do you have?

Probably right

Victron 12-12 30

 

[Lenny HB]

After turning off the engine the fridge will stay on battery for approx 15 min, 15 amps is about right for the larger fridges.

 

[AdrianChen]

Looking at the start battery voltages, it does seem that there is a smart alternator in there, so likely to be a b2b was fitted by Adria so maybe 2 in there now?

When you took the screen shots, was solar producing anything?

 

[mike_babb]

Thanks for all your replies, they are extremely helpful. Just a bit more information:

Yes, there was a a Nordelettronica NE325 DC/DC Converter (B2B), but after I did the lithium install I was getting this issue with the leisure battery drawing amps when the engine was running, so I thought I'd eliminate the possibility of it being the problem and just replace it with the Victron 12/12 30. I was happy to replace it anyway so I could utilise the smart feature via the Victron Connect app.

The old NE325 unit had the starter battery input and the leisure battery output cables wired via the Nordelettronica NE350 230v charger. I have wired the new unit direct to the batteries using 16mm cables. I suspected that the van alternator may be smart as I was having difficulties setting the new B2B up for 'Engine shutdown' & 'Input voltage lock-out', so I have disabled them. I thought I would try to sort out this draw issue first and then revisit those two settings.

So, to make things clearer, I have shut down everything in the van that is drawing amps:

Engine off:

Engine on & Victron B2B on:

Engine on & B2B off:

I don't know these systems well enough to know what's going on, but I have a feeling it isn't right. Even with the B2B and engine on the leisure battery appears to be consuming rather than charging.

Again, thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread, it's much appreciated.

TIA

Mike

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[ED O'DARAC]

Looking at the start battery voltages, it does seem that there is a smart alternator in there, so likely to be a b2b was fitted by Adria so maybe 2 in there now?

When you took the screen shots, was solar producing anything?

Adria fit the Shaudt WA Booster B2B system behind the EBL fusebox/charger system under the LHS Seat. It has a Lithium/Gel/Wet charge setting (slider switch). You may have a case of 'too many chefs' if you have installed another B2B. They are each trying to sense voltage etc. I wonder if they are cancelling each other out or confusing one another?

 

[MichaelT]

Thanks for all your replies, they are extremely helpful. Just a bit more information:

Yes, there was a a Nordelettronica NE325 DC/DC Converter (B2B), but after I did the lithium install I was getting this issue with the leisure battery drawing amps when the engine was running, so I thought I'd eliminate the possibility of it being the problem and just replace it with the Victron 12/12 30. I was happy to replace it anyway so I could utilise the smart feature via the Victron Connect app.

The old NE325 unit had the starter battery input and the leisure battery output cables wired via the Nordelettronica NE350 230v charger. I have wired the new unit direct to the batteries using 16mm cables. I suspected that the van alternator may be smart as I was having difficulties setting the new B2B up for 'Engine shutdown' & 'Input voltage lock-out', so I have disabled them. I thought I would try to sort out this draw issue first and then revisit those two settings.

So, to make things clearer, I have shut down everything in the van that is drawing amps:

Engine off:

View attachment 919700 View attachment 919701


Engine on & Victron B2B on:

View attachment 919703 View attachment 919702


Engine on & B2B off:

View attachment 919704 View attachment 919705

I don't know these systems well enough to know what's going on, but I have a feeling it isn't right. Even with the B2B and engine on the leisure battery appears to be consuming rather than charging.

Again, thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread, it's much appreciated.

TIA

Mike

I think the victron b2b only charges after 2 minutes to allow the starter battery to recover so check your manual and if I'm correct wait to see what happens once engine running 2 to 3 minutes.

 

[Ditcha]

I would wire your b2b to trigger with a d+ much better than using the smart sense .

 

[mike_babb]

Adria fit the Shaudt WA Booster B2B system behind the EBL fusebox/charger system under the LHS Seat. It has a Lithium/Gel/Wet charge setting (slider switch). You may have a case of 'too many chefs' if you have installed another B2B. They are each trying to sense voltage etc. I wonder if they are cancelling each other out or confusing one another?

Hi Ed, thanks for the advice. I can't see any such kit where you suggest. Is this in addition to the Nordelettronica NE325 DC/DC Converter that I removed?

 

[mike_babb]

Adria fit the Shaudt WA Booster B2B system behind the EBL fusebox/charger system under the LHS Seat. It has a Lithium/Gel/Wet charge setting (slider switch). You may have a case of 'too many chefs' if you have installed another B2B. They are each trying to sense voltage etc. I wonder if they are cancelling each other out or confusing one another?

Hi Ed, thanks for the advice. I can't see any such kit where you suggest. Is this in addition to the Nordelettronica NE325 DC/DC Converter that I removed?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[mike_babb]

I think the victron b2b only charges after 2 minutes to allow the starter battery to recover so check your manual and if I'm correct wait to see what happens once engine running 2 to 3 minutes.

Hi Michael, thanks for your advice. I think that's definitely true if you have the Engine shutdown detection enabled. I need to take the van out for a run to see what happens I think. I've enabled that now but had to lower the delayed start and shutdown detection voltages to 12.35 & 12.3 to get it to switch the b2b on.

 

[mike_babb]

I would wire your b2b to trigger with a d+ much better than using the smart sense .

Hi Ditcha, thanks for your advice. I have the b2b connected to ignition live for it to turn on. What is the benefit of D+ over that?

 

[Tombola]

Hi Michael, thanks for your advice. I think that's definitely true if you have the Engine shutdown detection enabled. I need to take the van out for a run to see what happens I think. I've enabled that now but had to lower the delayed start and shutdown detection voltages to 12.35 & 12.3 to get it to switch the b2b on.

I had to do similar

 

[mike_babb]

I had to do similar

Good to know

 

[Lenny HB]

Hi Ditcha, thanks for your advice. I have the b2b connected to ignition live for it to turn on. What is the benefit of D+ over that?

Better connected to the D+ then it will only operate when the engine is running with the alternator producing power.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[mike_babb]

Better connected to the D+ then it will only operate when the engine is running with the alternator producing power.

Thanks Lenny, is that an easy task? I'll do some research.

 

[Lenny HB]

Thanks Lenny, is that an easy task? I'll do some research.

There should be a relay box that distributes the D+, or you you may be able to pick it up on a connection to the distribution unit.

 

[mike_babb]

There should be a relay box that distributes the D+, or you you may be able to pick it up on a connection to the distribution unit.

Thanks Lenny. All done. Fortunately there was a D+ connection to the old Nord B2B, I just tested it to make sure it came on when the engine ran and used that.

 

[mike_babb]

Just to tie up this thread, I popped in to see Nigel Ivy at Offgrid Power Solutions near Wantage earlier in the week when on my way back from Wales to London. He suspected that it might be that the original split charge system is still active and needs to be disabled using a relay, which he fitted and all is good now. Whilst there he fitted an inverter for charging laptops, etc.

I have to say, he was excellent. Very knowledgeable, super neat workmanship and at a very reasonable price. And a great place to waste a few hours walking the dog around the local area whilst the work is being carried out.