Lithium fire extinguisher (1 Viewer)

[suavecarve]

Information only.

At work we have just got a Lithium Battery fire putter outer.

I get instructions later this week on how to use it but here is a video they provided

I know little else about it. Just in case someone is concerned enough to carry one for their bikes/scooters/hab batteries

 

[nicholsong]

Ask the instructor about the chemistry involved and a briefing sheet on it too, which you could then post on here.

Was the demonstration on a Lithium-Ion battery or a LiFePO4?

 

[Lenny HB]

LifeP04 don't combust like other tyres of Lithium they are same compared to other types.

 

[suavecarve]

Ask the instructor about the chemistry involved and a briefing sheet on it too, which you could then post on here.

Was the demonstration on a Lithium-Ion battery or a LiFePO4?

I m only possession of the information that we are getting one and the video at the moment.

I wont be on days til next Monday when rest assured, the necessary questions and where to buy it and how much will be asked

 

[Tombola]

Interesting...wonder if its jactone who makes it..and what's the difference.
Edit says UK manufacture

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[suavecarve]

An update.

I wanted more than the video as training so went down to where we have the extinguisher and spoke to the lady who oversees our battery storage area.
First up she tells me she has had 3 blown lithium batteries in the past month. I found this a little shocking as I thought we would be the ones attending this type of incident, but it appears our students like to make their own batteries and then discard them to her area where they are proven to be, not so well made.
At this point I thought I definitely need to know a little more than I thought I would need i.e. how to point a fire extinguisher so quickly arranged training for my team (I couldnt attend the full training as dealing with an incident at my chosen time)
In the meantime I bumped into our Fire safety man who agreed we ought to have quicker access to lithium fire extinguisher and we will get 2 (one for each campus) and will pass on my details to the company so I can see if it is worthy of having one in the motorhome (for anyone reading this as I wont be now)
The boys (and now a girl as well) came back from their training and said that it was pretty easy. Call Trumpton. If a lithium battery is on fire in an enclosed space, dont tackle it without BA equipment.
Owing to my lithium battery within my motorhome being in an enclosed space I wont be tackling it with an extinguisher so therefore wont need one and wont be buying one. I will find out how much they cost for you though hopefully.
More interestingly were the buckets of "pebbles" we have to put the lithium batteries into (when in cell format) when blown as they react and form a glass seal around the battery. But we are unlikely to use that as it is going to happen in the storage area.

 

[da1es]

My lithium overheated in our motorhome while i was on nights, luckily the wifes a light sleeper and was woken by the smoke alarm, when she went out she said the motorhome was full of thick smoke, the fire service attended in minutes and made it safe by extracting it, as there were no flames at the time and it had not got as bad as to ignite the seat or anything else, not sure how much help one of these would have been for us, now scared of lithium and gone for a couple of gels
A couple of days prior someones pvc was burned out with the same issue, we were the lucky ones

 

[Kannon Fodda]

My lithium overheated in our motorhome while i was on nights, luckily the wifes a light sleeper and was woken by the smoke alarm, when she went out she said the motorhome was full of thick smoke, the fire service attended in minutes and made it safe by extracting it, as there were no flames at the time and it had not got as bad as to ignite the seat or anything else, not sure how much help one of these would have been for us, now scared of lithium and gone for a couple of gels
A couple of days prior someones pvc was burned out with the same issue, we were the lucky ones

Which brand / model of lithium leisure battery was this please? Was it LifeP04 which is widely quoted on this forum as low risk, or another chemistry?

 

[Jez1966]

From Frogstar Batteries
"Research has shown that LiFePO4 batteries are very resistant to abuse, such as overcharging, over discharging, and mechanical shock. They are also less likely to catch fire or explode than other types of lithium-ion batteries."

 

[da1es]

Which brand / model of lithium leisure battery was this please? Was it LifeP04 which is widely quoted on this forum as low risk, or another chemistry?

Mine was one of the KS ones that were recently recalled

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[Lenny HB]

Owing to my lithium battery within my motorhome being in an enclosed space I wont be tackling it with an extinguisher so therefore wont need one and wont be buying one

You won't need one as LiFeP04 don't combust or catch fire.

My lithium overheated in our motorhome while i was on nights, luckily the wifes a light sleeper and was woken by the smoke alarm, when she went out she said the motorhome was full of thick smoke, the fire service attended in minutes and made it safe by extracting it, as there were no flames at the time and it had not got as bad as to ignite the seat or anything else, not sure how much help one of these would have been for us, now scared of lithium and gone for a couple of gels
A couple of days prior someones pvc was burned out with the same issue, we were the lucky ones

Mine was one of the KS ones that were recently recalled

That was down to faulty wiring inside the battery, the battery cells didn't catch fire it was the wiring & the case, it could of happened with any type of battery and would have been worse if it was a Lead Acid battery.

 

[Jez1966]

You won't need one as LiFeP04 don't combust or catch fire.

Don't try this at home, 03:16:
Yes extreme abuse but LiFeP04 will burn.

From Frogstar Batteries
"Research has shown that LiFePO4 batteries are very resistant to abuse, such as overcharging, over discharging, and mechanical shock. They are also less likely to catch fire or explode than other types of lithium-ion batteries."

 

[autorouter]

The problem is that some types of lithium battery produce their own oxygen to contribute to a fire. So smothering, covering with sand etc has no effect. The heat causes more oxygen to be produced, and the whole thing gets out of hand, in a process called thermal runaway.

That's why you need a special extinguisher to seal round the whole battery and reduce the temperature. Batteries found in laptops, phones, ebikes, escooters and most EVs are this type, subject to thermal runaway.

However there is one type of battery that doesn't produce its own oxygen when damaged, and that is Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4). That's the type that is always used in motorhomes. Obviously it can have problems, like any concentrated energy store, including lead-acid batteries. But there's no spectacular thermal runaway fire if it's slightly damaged, like other types of lithium battery.

 

[tinkertaylor]

My lithium overheated in our motorhome while i was on nights, luckily the wifes a light sleeper and was woken by the smoke alarm, when she went out she said the motorhome was full of thick smoke, the fire service attended in minutes and made it safe by extracting it, as there were no flames at the time and it had not got as bad as to ignite the seat or anything else, not sure how much help one of these would have been for us, now scared of lithium and gone for a couple of gels
A couple of days prior someones pvc was burned out with the same issue, we were the lucky ones

Lucky escape

 

[Lenny HB]

Don't try this at home, 03:16:
Yes extreme abuse but LiFeP04 will burn.

From Frogstar Batteries
"Research has shown that LiFePO4 batteries are very resistant to abuse, such as overcharging, over discharging, and mechanical shock. They are also less likely to catch fire or explode than other types of lithium-ion batteries."

Very exstream, shorted out then puntchered twice not something that's going to happen in normal use if it's installed correctly.
Considering the exstream circumstances not a very big fire, do that to a standard LiIon battery you would have a big bonfire.

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[Bessy765]

We have2 x 100 Transporter Lithium batteries one under each seat. For extra safety they are each wrapped in a Kevlar shroud. If a fire develops just get out motorhomes are replaceable lives aren’t

 

[Jez1966]

Very exstream, shorted out then puntchered twice not something that's going to happen in normal use if it's installed correctly.
Considering the exstream circumstances not a very big fire, do that to a standard LiIon battery you would have a big bonfire.

Who known what scenario will play out, it is important to understand the facts/potential.
The shorting out resulted in no reaction so it is just the puncturing that caused the fire.
There are other demos, more realistic of accidental drilling into the battery, multiple times so maybe not real like but it burns.
Just wanting to ensure poeple have the correct information and "You won't need one as LiFeP04 don't combust or catch fire." is not.
"not a very big fire" but big enough to set light to other things.
My 105ah Lead Acid will NOT burn..

 

[scotjimland]

"not a very big fire" but big enough to set light to other things.

yip .. most fires start small..

a London tower block was tuned to ashes by an electrical fault in a fridge freezer..

The Grenfell Tower fire - which led to the deaths of 72 people - was most likely started by overheating within a Hotpoint fridge-freezer, a public inquiry has heard.

A photo of the small wire connector which is thought to have overheated and started the fire was shown to the inquiry on Tuesday.

 

[Pausim]

My 105ah Lead Acid will NOT burn..

But it can give off hydrogen gas which is very combustible. They also contain a dangerous concentrated acid. As already said any concentrated energy store has its risks. On my personal scale of stored energy to worry about the propane gas and lead acid battery feature higher up than LiFePO4 and the diesel tank.

 

[Jez1966]

But it can give off hydrogen gas which is very combustible. They also contain a dangerous concentrated acid. As already said any concentrated energy store has its risks. On my personal scale of stored energy to worry about the propane gas and lead acid battery feature higher up than LiFePO4 and the diesel tank.

Unlikely hydrogen gas given off will reach sufficent concentration to burn, and at 29-32% acid concentration I have 99% acetic acid (vinager, to remove lime
scale. Though powdered acetic acid works just as well with out the smell) that will do more damage.
Agree everything comes with a measure of risk.

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