Lithium battery & Dc to Dc chargers etc

[tezza-alli]

Sorry, I missed your question. I bought 280ah cells and they are so far excellent. Fogstar guarantee them to provide at least 277ah. I have done two capacity tests and got 281ah each time. There was very tiny bloating on one of the cells. I registered this with Fogstar so they are aware but it has no impact on the performance of the cell. I'm using a JK BMS and the cells all charge and balance to within 1 to cels and a BMS 2 millivolts.

Thanks for your reply, I was just about to order

Sorry, I missed your question. I bought 280ah cells and they are so far excellent. Fogstar guarantee them to provide at least 277ah. I have done two capacity tests and got 281ah each time. There was very tiny bloating on one of the cells. I registered this with Fogstar so they are aware but it has no impact on the performance of the cell. I'm using a JK BMS and the cells all charge and balance to within 1 to 2 millivolts.

Thanks for your reply, I had my order ready and thought I'd just see if I had any Fun replies before I pushed the pay now button. I'm going to go with the 280A Grade B and the JK BMS too.

 

[monzer]

Check where the positive input & output are wired. With an EBL you can wire the output from the B2B into the starter battery connection on the back of the EBL then the B2B feed through the split charge relay but sometimes the relay contacts are a bit carboned up and this can reduce the charge rate.
If they have bypassed the EBL you need to check that they have disconnected the starter battery input to the EBL by either removing the connection from the EBL or pulling the 50 amp fuse by the starter battery.

Just an update on this... I took the van out for a run today to fill LPG. Batteries were at 43%. Started the engine and the B2B was putting in roughly 25amp. Soon settled down to a steady 19amps and put the batteries up to 49% with a 45 minute round trip. Does that seem about right for what I should be expecting? A lot higher than before but maybe the batteries weren't as low last time.

2 125Ah lithiums in parallel.

 

[Lenny HB]

Just an update on this... I took the van out for a run today to fill LPG. Batteries were at 43%. Started the engine and the B2B was putting in roughly 25amp. Soon settled down to a steady 19amps and put the batteries up to 49% with a 45 minute round trip. Does that seem about right for what I should be expecting? A lot higher than before but maybe the batteries weren't as low last time.

2 125Ah lithiums in parallel.

Sounds a bit low to me I would expect it to nearer 30 Amps until the Lithium are nearly fully charged. Sound like the split charge relay is still in circuit.

 

[jumar]

On starting up my B2B is delayed for my pre-set time of 1 minute..this gives the starter battery a little time...then I will get more or less 30 amp well into 90% of the lithium being fully charged....then the step down can be seen...

 

[monzer]

On starting up my B2B is delayed for my pre-set time of 1 minute..this gives the starter battery a little time...then I will get more or less 30 amp well into 90% of the lithium being fully charged....then the step down can be seen...

I presume it's a 30 amp B2B? Seems I'll have to find out how they have wired mine.

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[eddie]

I opted for the Sterling ‘Buck Boost’ B2B

My camper has a 220 amp alternator so easily handles 100 amp plus the 120 amp rating of the B2B

 

[eddie]

As an aside, this is on mains charge, 120 amp charge, it shows the huge charge rates that properly set up lithiums can handle, which is why many on here, me and Lenny HB included, simply don’t rate drop in lithium replacements.

 

[Al n Val]

The ones I would recommend personally are:
The Victron Orion Smart Tr


Actually, just had a thought .... one of the chargers I tested was a Redarc BCDC 40A unit (very well regarded unit in Australia) and that only put out 36A rather than the 40A in the name.

I have the Redarc charger you refer to and mine regularly produces 36/38A dependent on what state of charge my Lithium batteries are.

I’m pretty sure the other week when travelling to where we are now that it was showing 40.6A. These are SuperB app readings btw though not actual measured ones.

I still have my Victron Orion 12/12/30 B2B and battery master which I should get refitted, great pieces of kit

 

[Hoovie]

I have the Redarc charger you refer to and mine regularly produces 36/38A dependent on what state of charge my Lithium batteries are.

I’m pretty sure the other week when travelling to where we are now that it was showing 40.6A. These are SuperB app readings btw though not actual measured ones.

I still have my Victron Orion 12/12/30 B2B and battery master which I should get refitted, great pieces of kit

interesting. seems to confirm that maybe the 40A quoted IS an input current similar to the Sterling mentioned.

 

[wfdTamar]

I have a Votronic VBCS triple charger. It’s B2B, solar and mains in one unit. 45 amp B2B, 30 amp mains and 350wh solar. It puts out a steady 45amp charge according to the battery shunt ....

Can I ask how you're reading that? On the Votronic page it shows the LCD-Control S display is used with it, which can show all the charging, but as far as I can tell, there's no shunt.

I've used a battery monitor that does have a shunt which is a good way to monitor the battery. I'm surprised they don't have that option with the VBCS.

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[Hoovie]

Can I ask how you're reading that? On the Votronic page it shows the LCD-Control S display is used with it, which can show all the charging, but as far as I can tell, there's no shunt.

I've used a battery monitor that does have a shunt which is a good way to monitor the battery. I'm surprised they don't have that option with the VBCS.

I've not used this product, but I guess you buy this optional extra - https://www.votronic.de/index.php/en/products/measuring-display-systems/energy-monitor-app - which would seem to include a shunt and a bus module which looks like it would connect to the triple via a data cable into the BUS port?

I'm not sure about these all-in-one units TBH. I supplied a Redarc Battery Manager 30 system to a customer, which is similar to the Votronic. Redarc are a very good company, but I felt the various features were all a little lacking in capacity and if you wanted say a bigger solar, or a bigger B2B, you were out of luck without getting an external unit, which negates the whole point of the intergrated system. Just seemed too inflexible to me, but maybe some folk it will suit? (in my case, the customer specifically wanted the unit, so my task was to find it at a good price for him).

 

[wfdTamar]

The bluetooth monitor is sold alone. The shunt comes with the LCD Battery Computer S. It reads like you'd need all those and the VBCS to cover everything.

You'd want to compare specs & pricing of the separate products vs this combined one. Expensive fix if one part of died. More compact. Easy to think of con's. Not so easy to think of pro's to it.

 

[G7UXG]

Can I ask how you're reading that? On the Votronic page it shows the LCD-Control S display is used with it, which can show all the charging, but as far as I can tell, there's no shunt.

I've used a battery monitor that does have a shunt which is a good way to monitor the battery. I'm surprised they don't have that option with the VBCS.

I have the LCD Battery Computer with a 200amp smart shunt, and also the Bluetooth module. The VBCS charger and shunt both connect to the Bluetooth module and then the charge rate and solar performance can all be monitored via the app on an iPhone, or via display panels.

As mentioned, it’s not the most flexible system but I am where I am and don’t need any more charge capacity as I’m not a heavy power user. It works for me and has done for the past two years. With a combined unit, you only have one charge profile program and so solar and B2B are not doing different things at different times. Is that an advantage? I don’t know.

If the VBCS goes wrong, the original mains, solar and B2B are still in place. It would take me 15 minutes to change the solar connections to run through the original controller. The original B2B and my Votronic unit are both switched by the D+, so all I need to do to switch units is unplug a spade terminal from one and insert it into the other. Both have lithium profiles. Perhaps I could run them both at once but I don’t need to for my power usage. The original mains chargers just need switching on, but they don’t have lithium profiles.

We do have an 1800 watt inverter, hence 3 lithiums to spread the load without depleting the power reserves too much. Whilst we don’t use loads of power, we have plenty in reserve if we need it.

 

[monzer]

Sounds a bit low to me I would expect it to nearer 30 Amps until the Lithium are nearly fully charged. Sound like the split charge relay is still in circuit.

I spoke to the fitter and they confirmed that they left it connected to make sure the fridge still works while driving. The said I can take it back in and they will rewire it if required.

I'm thinking of doing this and getting them to fit a Victron charger through the EBL at the same time.

Easy enough job for them to do? Any problems they or I could expect?

Any advice appreciated.

 

[autorouter]

I spoke to the fitter and they confirmed that they left it connected to make sure the fridge still works while driving. The said I can take it back in and they will rewire it if required.

It's easier to do this on an EBL than on many other types of distribution/fusebox. There are two separate paths for the power from the starter battery to the EBL. By the starter battery there will be two fuses, 50A and 20A. The 50A is for the split charge relay, and the 20A is for the fridge, starter battery mains charging and starter battery voltage reading.

If they wired the new B2B direct to the leisure battery, you could simply pull out the 50A fuse to cut the path through the split charge relay. This has no problematic side-effects like other brands of fusebox.

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[peterc10]

If they wired the new B2B direct to the leisure battery, you could simply pull out the 50A fuse to cut the path through the split charge relay. This has no problematic side-effects like other brands of fusebox.

I did it a slightly different way. Kept the 50A fuse, but disconnected the cable between the cab battery and EBL at the rear of the EBL and connected it to the input of the B2B instead. Then connected the output of the B2B directly to the leisure batteries.

 

[monzer]

It's easier to do this on an EBL than on many other types of distribution/fusebox. There are two separate paths for the power from the starter battery to the EBL. By the starter battery there will be two fuses, 50A and 20A. The 50A is for the split charge relay, and the 20A is for the fridge, starter battery mains charging and starter battery voltage reading.

If they wired the new B2B direct to the leisure battery, you could simply pull out the 50A fuse to cut the path through the split charge relay. This has no problematic side-effects like other brands of fusebox.

Thanks again, some great guys/(gals?) on here when it come to electrics!

So in theory (if they have wired B2B straight to leisure battery) I could simply pull out the 50A fuse and my B2B should start putting max amps in to my low batteries? No need to go back to the fitter?

I think I will fit a Victron charger, they don't seem to be to expensive and it makes sense to give my new batteries a more suitable charge pattern. So in that scenario maybe as well just putting it back to them and they could do that at the same time.

 

[wfdTamar]

If you have a B2B, decent solar and you drive at least every 2-3 days, you might not ever need a mains charger.