Leisure Battery Options 110Ah Lead Acid (1 Viewer)

[DerryW]

Unfortunately leisure battery at 5 years has given up the ghost.

Now looking at the options for replacement: -
1. Stright replacement Lead Acid, look at increasing to 130Ah.
2. Fit an equivalent GEL battery.
3. Change to Lithium with all that involves.

Questions for the knowledgeable amongst us, please.

Option 1) is it a case of simply purchasing a 130Ah and dropping it in.

Option 2) As 1 above and simply switching the Nordi charger from Lead Acid to GEL setting. Would I need to do anything with the existing MPPT SUN solar controller.

Option 3) EcoTree have an offer on a 100Ah lithium battery at £250 which brings lithium into scope. This is where advise will be greatly appreciated. Here goes: A). can you get a lithium battery with traditional post connectors (the ones I’ve seen have screws to hold the cable). B). Will I need to change the existing MPPT solar controller.
C). Will I need to increase/change the existing 120amp solar panel up on the roof.
D). Will the current charger, charge lithium even though it doesn’t have a lithium
setting.
E). Subject to answers to B & D above is there a basic package of items required when changing from Lead Acid to Lithium.

Useful info. We spend approximately 2 weeks off grid at a time. Probably 10-15 times a year. We like to watch 2 - 3 hours TV on most days. We run fridge/frezzer, hot water and heating if required on gas.

Photos of existing equipment below.

 

[MichaelT]

Unfortunately leisure battery at 5 years has given up the ghost.

I have a brand new 85ah gel battery to sell if you interested pm me.

 

[DerryW]

Thanks Michael. Don’t think 85Ah would be sufficient for our needs. Thanks all the same.

 

[MichaelT]

Thanks Michael. Don’t think 85Ah would be sufficient for our needs. Thanks all the same.

Gel will give you about 70ah to use going down to 20%, lead acid 55ah going to 50%?

 

[tonka]

Ref the terminals. You can buy screw in adapter. Got mine off Amazon. I used one as it was to keep things simple on the positive side.
Solar panel will be fine but the regulator may not have a lithium setting, check.. but an easy thing to swop out and upgrade.

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[Montezuma]

I will find any of the answers to all Derry's questions very interesting.

We both seem to own vehicle fitted with the same "Cheap and not so cheerful" Nordelettronica unit.

 

[MisterB]

I have a nordelectronica 237 on an Adria and although it doesn't have a lithium setting, it still charges my 304ah lithium to 98% and the solar does the rest. It's been in over 12 months now and performing brilliantly in conjunction with a 3000w Renogy inverter. Currently off grid in Pisa, cooking sausages in the air fryer ! Battery will get close to full charge tomorrow when driving for about 90mins ....

 

[tonka]

The online manual says the solar regulator is lithium ready..

https://www.roadpro.co.uk/userfiles/PDFs/product%20information/NDS/NDS%20Sun%20Control%20SC300M%20v3%20-%20Booklet%20ENG.pdf

 

[MichaelT]

Thanks Michael. Don’t think 85Ah would be sufficient for our needs. Thanks all the same.

Now you have completed the post I would go for lithium.

 

[Lenny HB]

I) 130 ah Lead will be a straight swap.
2) A Gel will also be a straight swap if your solar controller has a Gel setting.
3) To get the best out of Lithium you need to charge them correctly, tonka post looks like Solar is OK for Lithium, although your mains charger will be OK on Gel setting for occasional use I would fit a charger more suitable. Also if you don't have a B2B you will need to fit one.
120w of Solar won't really that advantage of Lithium quick charge capability so best to increase it.

I also have a brand new 80ah Exide Gel for sale.

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[Itsmcb]

There is not a lot of difference in cost of the batteries you have mentioned so the Lithium one might be best. It would be my choice as it will charge up faster from any available charging source. However I think you also need to consider how you are using your motorhome as it doesn't matter which battery you have if you are using the charge it holds faster than you are replacing it.

If you are spending two weeks off grid is that:

A. Two weeks in one place? In which case you are relying on just your solar panel to keep your leisure battery charged. In this case you would be better to also add another solar panel. This will increase the amount of charge going into the battery. However you may also need to change the solar controller if it is not suitable for the increased supply from the extra panel.

B. Two weeks travelling to several different places? In which case a B2B charger would be beneficial as it will charge your battery quickly whilst driving.

In an ideal world a nice big Lithium battery, lots of solar and a big B2B would be nice BUT would be complete overkill for your needs (and expensive).

Decisions eh?

 

[DerryW]

Ref the terminals. You can buy screw in adapter. Got mine off Amazon. I used one as it was to keep things simple on the positive side.
Solar panel will be fine but the regulator may not have a lithium setting, check.. but an easy thing to swop out and upgrade.

Thanks tonka

 

[DerryW]

There is not a lot of difference in cost of the batteries you have mentioned so the Lithium one might be best. It would be my choice as it will charge up faster from any available charging source. However I think you also need to consider how you are using your motorhome as it doesn't matter which battery you have if you are using the charge it holds faster than you are replacing it.

If you are spending two weeks off grid is that:

A. Two weeks in one place? In which case you are relying on just your solar panel to keep your leisure battery charged. In this case you would be better to also add another solar panel. This will increase the amount of charge going into the battery. However you may also need to change the solar controller if it is not suitable for the increased supply from the extra panel.

B. Two weeks travelling to several different places? In which case a B2B charger would be beneficial as it will charge your battery quickly whilst driving.

In an ideal world a nice big Lithium battery, lots of solar and a big B2B would be nice BUT would be complete overkill for your needs (and expensive).

Decisions eh?

Thanks Itsmcb. Probably best to sum our use a light, the absolute most we’re in 1 place without starting and moving on would be 3 days

 

[DerryW]

I) 130 ah Lead will be a straight swap.
2) A Gel will also be a straight swap if your solar controller has a Gel setting.
3) To get the best out of Lithium you need to charge them correctly, tonka post looks like Solar is OK for Lithium, although your mains charger will be OK on Gel setting for occasional use I would fit a charger more suitable. Also if you don't have a B2B you will need to fit one.
120w of Solar won't really that advantage of Lithium quick charge capability so best to increase it.

I also have a brand new 80ah Exide Gel for sale.

Lenny thanks.

I) 130 ah Lead will be a straight swap.
2) A Gel will also be a straight swap if your solar controller has a Gel setting.
3) To get the best out of Lithium you need to charge them correctly, tonka post looks like Solar is OK for Lithium, although your mains charger will be OK on Gel setting for occasional use I would fit a charger more suitable. Also if you don't have a B2B you will need to fit one.
120w of Solar won't really that advantage of Lithium quick charge capability so best to increase it.

I also have a brand new 80ah Exide Gel for sale.

Lenny a little more clarity please, if you could be so kind. I believe the vehicle has B2B through the existing Nordelettronica NE237 charger, there is a symbol on the Nordelettronica NE266 control panel (2 batteries linked together) according to the manual this symbol will light up when the engine is running and the parallel battery is active.

Could you recommend a lithium charger. I assume this would be standalone from the existing Nord NE 237.
Thanks once again. Derry

 

[Lenny HB]

Lenny a little more clarity please, if you could be so kind. I believe the vehicle has B2B through the existing Nordelettronica NE237 charger, there is a symbol on the Nordelettronica NE266 control panel (2 batteries linked together) according to the manual this symbol will light up when the engine is running and the parallel battery is active.

Could you recommend a lithium charger. I assume this would be standalone from the existing Nord NE 237.
Thanks once again. Derry

I think you will find the Nordelettronica just has a split charge relay that will need disabling when you fit a B2B.

For a charger a Victron IP22 they come in 15/20&30 amp versions, they are only single output so won't charge the engine battery but I think your Solar controller can charge the starter battery but it's not been connected.
OffGrid will give you a good price with a Funster discount.

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[wfdTamar]

If you want an easy option a lead carbon Gel is a good one. 110Ah (88Ah usable) £190 and gets 750 cycles at 80% discharge. At Alpha Batteries.

 

[scotzsue]

How lucky to have a choice, we had to replace ours with same as before, only alternative was lithium, new charger and new solar controller. That would cover our next ferry fare no sensible place either to put a second battery. Still we have managed for years on what we have.

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

Gel will give you about 70ah to use going down to 20%, lead acid 55ah going to 50%?

Interesting MichaelT but will the gel battery need a different charger?
I have a standard 10amp charger and a LA 75amp leisure battery in our new to us Campervan, which is a Varta dual purpose, but I suspect the battery is beyond help.
The charger when put on 240v to charge the battery very quickly can get hot and I don't think it has any variable settings.
The current Varta battery looks new but it is struggling with our compressor fridge and I was wondering about your 85amp one you have to sell.
Do you have any dimensions of your battery please?

 

[MichaelT]

Interesting MichaelT but will the gel battery need a different charger?
I have a standard 10amp charger and a LA 75amp leisure battery in our new to us Campervan, which is a Varta dual purpose, but I suspect the battery is beyond help.
The charger when put on 240v to charge the battery very quickly can get hot and I don't think it has any variable settings.
The current Varta battery looks new but it is struggling with our compressor fridge and I was wondering about your 85amp one you have to sell.
Do you have any dimensions of your battery please?

Ideally you need a Gel setting on the charger which most will have. We have turned our charger off as never on hook up and rely on solar and driving.

 

[Langtoftlad]

I'm in a similar situation as my 2x LA have recently died... after 7 years.
My choice is to have gels fitted. Why?
Cost & my usage remains the same.

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[Captain Yoghurtpot]

I'm in a similar situation as my 2x LA have recently died... after 7 years.
My choice is to have gels fitted. Why?
Cost & my usage remains the same.

Are Gels cheaper then than LA now?
Thought Gels were more expensive to be honest.
Thanks for the info though.
Have ordered a new 85a basic LA battery as this will work nicely with my current basic set up , or so I have been told by the supplier of the charger, and coupled with the type of usage we will be doing.

 

[Langtoftlad]

Are Gels cheaper then than LA now

No, not cheaper than LA's but a lot cheaper than lithium, especially if you have to upgrade your charging regime.
Different points of view about DOD. LA's are recommended only 50% but some say Gels can be 75%

 

[autorouter]

One thing nobody has mentioned so far is that lithium are more efficient when being charged. If you want to get 50Ah out of a lithium battery, you need to put in no more than 53Ah or 54Ah. But for lead-acids of any type (flooded, gel, AGM etc) you need to put in about 66Ah. This is not important for mains chargers, they just keep going until the battery is full. But for solar or B2B it makes a difference, and you gain at least 10% extra useful power from your inputs with lithium.

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

No, not cheaper than LA's but a lot cheaper than lithium, especially if you have to upgrade your charging regime.
Different points of view about DOD. LA's are recommended only 50% but some say Gels can be 75%

Don't quite understand.
What is DOD and what is 50%?
Thanks

 

[autorouter]

Don't quite understand.
What is DOD and what is 50%?

DOD = Depth of Discharge. A flooded lead-acid battery can normally be discharged down to about 50% without significant degradation of long-term lifetime. Many people reckon a Gel can go down to the 20% level without significant degradation, that's a DOD of 80%.

So if you want to use 100Ah of charge, you will need 200Ah of flooded lead-acid, or 125Ah of Gel. So the price difference between Gel and Flooded batteries may not look so bad.

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[Langtoftlad]

Don't quite understand.
What is DOD and what is 50%?
Thanks

Sorry...
DOD = Depth Of Discharge

With Lead Acid batteries, it is recommended to only discharge to 50%, to prolong life
So with a 100ah lead acid battery you actually only get a useful capacity of 50ah
Of course you can drain it more but it risks damaging it.

If it's a 100ah gel, according to some the DOD is 75% or 75ahr

Lithium, you can drain almost completely.
So you'd need 2x 100ah lead acid to have the same capacity as 1x 100ah lithium

*I'm sure someone will put me right if I'm on the wrong track.

 

[BrianJane]

This you tube video from a knowledgable guy has lots of useful info on the basics of litheum, where to buy, etc

 

[ChrisL]

If you want an easy option a lead carbon Gel is a good one. 110Ah (88Ah usable) £190 and gets 750 cycles at 80% discharge. At Alpha Batteries.

Mine died after 2.5 years, possibly because of being on hookup for 2 winters.

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

Sorry...
DOD = Depth Of Discharge

With Lead Acid batteries, it is recommended to only discharge to 50%, to prolong life
So with a 100ah lead acid battery you actually only get a useful capacity of 50ah
Of course you can drain it more but it risks damaging it.

If it's a 100ah gel, according to some the DOD is 75% or 75ahr

Lithium, you can drain almost completely.
So you'd need 2x 100ah lead acid to have the same capacity as 1x 100ah lithium

*I'm sure someone will put me right if I'm on the wrong track.

OK, so I think I get it, but.........
I have fitted a new 85aph lead acid 12v battery (with breather tube, as in a confined space internally).
Current voltage is at 12.6v .
Put compressor fridge on and battery went to 12.2v and fridge got nicely cold.
Then put 240v charger on and also left fridge on, and voltage intake rose to 13.2v to the battery.
After about half an hour I switched off the fridge as nice and cool, and the battery charger, and I had a reading of 12.7v, and today it is now at 12.6v with no load.
Does this sound about right?
I also assume that at 85amp, to go to 50% max. discharge would be 42 -43 amh usage.
Am I understanding this or should I give up and take up knitting?

 

[Langtoftlad]

Knitting won't give you any 12v - no matter how fast you get your needles clicking

I find a chart like this:

quite useful as a guideline.

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